I'm sailing a 1976 Catalina 22. Would like more cockpit room. Also more deck and flatter deck forward of the cabin. Pictures I've seen of the 22MK11 seem to show a lower profile cabin and more deck space. The brochure says cockpit is larger and more comfortable. True? How bout lying on the deck when just sailing w the main? Finally, should I want an MK11 where do look? Thanks. New monohull sailor ( 20 years Hobie) Hope I have not made any mistakes on this forum.
Catalina 22 vs catalina 22mk11
- Thread starter polarbear
- Start date
The MK-II is a completely different boat from both the original design C-22, and the new design C-22. They look and feel like a larger boat. The hull and cabin are wider, and the cabin dinette has been eliminated and two long quarter berths run from the compression post bulkhead to probably 18" behind the rear cabin bulkhead. Because they are wider, you can't sheet in as close, and they are heavier,(like the new design), so they make a better cruiser than racer. Highly sought after for the cruising crowd, so "when" one comes up for sale, they don't last long,(not many MK-II's were manufactured, only around 300 were made and discontinued ~ 2012). The cockpit is probably larger because it's a bit wider, and just a total different design,(I don't think they are any longer), and the seat backs are nicely angled making them comfortable, (nicest is the cockpit seats in the Sport). The C-22 Sport has a longer cockpit than any of the versions, but uses the original hull mold so they are the same beam as the original and new design versions. I attached a photo when both our C-22's were in my storage yard. You can see the difference between the MK-II hull and the standard C-22 hull. Notice how the sides of the hull angle out on the MK-II, were the other C-22 hull sides are pretty straight up and down. I also attached a couple photos of a stock MK-II interior from a MK-II I sold last year. As you can see the cabin interior is a lot more open and gives you more room,(in my opinion). But then again, the New Design interior is very pretty also.
No reason why someone can't lay out forward while sailing, with or without the jib, we do it all the time, and at times, sitting up forward is my favorite spot.
But, original, new design, MK-II or Sport, all GREAT boats, can't go wrong with any version!
Don
No reason why someone can't lay out forward while sailing, with or without the jib, we do it all the time, and at times, sitting up forward is my favorite spot.
But, original, new design, MK-II or Sport, all GREAT boats, can't go wrong with any version!
Don
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Don: great information. So, I've gotta ask - you have a MKII and a "New Design". You are a cruiser. So, of the two, which is your preferred cruiser? Just curious as to which you would choose if you had to.
We love our 1980 "original design" very much; but, that said, we can't help but consider what our next boat should look like. We like cruising / camping, too; and, we like the trailerability and launchability of the C-22s. At the same time, a little more room (3-foot-itis) and amenities (enclosed head for the Admiral) would sure be nice (Catalina 250 wing keel?).
Thoughts?
We love our 1980 "original design" very much; but, that said, we can't help but consider what our next boat should look like. We like cruising / camping, too; and, we like the trailerability and launchability of the C-22s. At the same time, a little more room (3-foot-itis) and amenities (enclosed head for the Admiral) would sure be nice (Catalina 250 wing keel?).
Thoughts?
Bob,
Our original C-22 was also a 1980 vintage,(#9405). What GREAT times we had with her for years as our girls were growing up. Having lived on her for about 6 months during the week while I was on a project in St. Louis years ago, and spending many weekends on her with the girls, including a week long cruise up the Mississippi River, gives me a pretty good insight on which version of the C-22 is my favorite. Now a bit of a confession. Yes, we also have a "new design" that we recently picked up. She is a swing keel version, and the previous owner didn't maintain the keel properly, and the boat was kept in a slip out here on the coast, so the salt water has done a number on the keel. She's my retirement project boat, and I intend to install a new style swing keel from Catalina. This will hopefully eliminate a lot of the keel maintenance issues, plus that fact that she won't be slipped, at least not for any extended times. But, we've not sailed her yet, but I do like the "new design" interior much better that our original C-22. The cabin design with the re-designed forward section is a HUGE improvement with the hatch right above your head while in the V-berth. I also believe the starboard quarter berth is a bit wider, and without that horrible sliding galley, gives you a lot of room to stretch out.
OK, getting to your question....as a "cruiser", our wing keeled MK-II is simply AWESOME! Extremely stable. But we've got her set up for just my wife and I and our little dog. The V-berth on our boat has been converted to a semi-enclosed head and luggage storage. The MK-II interior has nice long quarter berths port and starboard in the cabin, and that's where we sleep. The cabin also has a small table which hide's the swing keel trunk on the swing keel version, but the newer,(post 1996), wing keel version uses the base of the table as a small storage locker. We use it for our "spirit's locker". I ran an experiment for several months and removed this small table and liked how it really opened up the cabin floor. But, my wife didn't like it, and there was no place to hold your morning coffee, so as the Admiral ordered, the table was re-installed. Now again, our interior has been modified from a stock MK-II interior. The padded back rests for the quarter berths have been removed and a varnished teak board was installed giving us several extra inches of "hip room" when sleeping on the quarter berths. We recently had new interior cushions made for the quarter berths. So we have a better quality 3" foam than the stock cushions had, and 3" of memory foam toppers that we unroll for sleeping. The bunks are EXTREMELY comfortable! HUGE improvement in sleeping comfort over the stock factory cushions. The wing keel is ZERO maintenance. And although the ocean floors aren't covered with lost C-22 swing keels, and the vast majority of C-22's have swing keels,(including our other C-22), when we get out in the ocean and the wind pipes up and the waves build, it's just reassuring knowing there are 6- 1/2" stainless steel bolts holding the keel to the bottom. Catalina really improved the hull to deck joint on the MK-II's, which has eliminated any potential for a leak to develop at this joint like the original and "new design" boats can. My only complaint with the MK-II is I wish Catalina Yachts would've retained the pop-top design from the two original versions. The MK-II is simply hinged forward and swings up. So the headroom varies, unlike the other versions. I know it was cheaper to build them this way. Also, when the pop-top covers are installed on the other boats, you gain some nice storage area at night on the cabin top. The MK-II's also have no exterior wood, so as I've said in the past, they tend to have the personality of a Clorox bottle, but when the day is over, I rinse the boat down and walk away. No sanding, no varnishing, maybe some occasional metal polish, but the MK-II's require much less maintenance. BUT! a cleaned up, decked out "new design" C-22 is the prettiest girl in the marina!
Those are my opinions......but I believe Catalina really hit the nail square on the head with the MK-II's for us cruisers.
Don
Our original C-22 was also a 1980 vintage,(#9405). What GREAT times we had with her for years as our girls were growing up. Having lived on her for about 6 months during the week while I was on a project in St. Louis years ago, and spending many weekends on her with the girls, including a week long cruise up the Mississippi River, gives me a pretty good insight on which version of the C-22 is my favorite. Now a bit of a confession. Yes, we also have a "new design" that we recently picked up. She is a swing keel version, and the previous owner didn't maintain the keel properly, and the boat was kept in a slip out here on the coast, so the salt water has done a number on the keel. She's my retirement project boat, and I intend to install a new style swing keel from Catalina. This will hopefully eliminate a lot of the keel maintenance issues, plus that fact that she won't be slipped, at least not for any extended times. But, we've not sailed her yet, but I do like the "new design" interior much better that our original C-22. The cabin design with the re-designed forward section is a HUGE improvement with the hatch right above your head while in the V-berth. I also believe the starboard quarter berth is a bit wider, and without that horrible sliding galley, gives you a lot of room to stretch out.
OK, getting to your question....as a "cruiser", our wing keeled MK-II is simply AWESOME! Extremely stable. But we've got her set up for just my wife and I and our little dog. The V-berth on our boat has been converted to a semi-enclosed head and luggage storage. The MK-II interior has nice long quarter berths port and starboard in the cabin, and that's where we sleep. The cabin also has a small table which hide's the swing keel trunk on the swing keel version, but the newer,(post 1996), wing keel version uses the base of the table as a small storage locker. We use it for our "spirit's locker". I ran an experiment for several months and removed this small table and liked how it really opened up the cabin floor. But, my wife didn't like it, and there was no place to hold your morning coffee, so as the Admiral ordered, the table was re-installed. Now again, our interior has been modified from a stock MK-II interior. The padded back rests for the quarter berths have been removed and a varnished teak board was installed giving us several extra inches of "hip room" when sleeping on the quarter berths. We recently had new interior cushions made for the quarter berths. So we have a better quality 3" foam than the stock cushions had, and 3" of memory foam toppers that we unroll for sleeping. The bunks are EXTREMELY comfortable! HUGE improvement in sleeping comfort over the stock factory cushions. The wing keel is ZERO maintenance. And although the ocean floors aren't covered with lost C-22 swing keels, and the vast majority of C-22's have swing keels,(including our other C-22), when we get out in the ocean and the wind pipes up and the waves build, it's just reassuring knowing there are 6- 1/2" stainless steel bolts holding the keel to the bottom. Catalina really improved the hull to deck joint on the MK-II's, which has eliminated any potential for a leak to develop at this joint like the original and "new design" boats can. My only complaint with the MK-II is I wish Catalina Yachts would've retained the pop-top design from the two original versions. The MK-II is simply hinged forward and swings up. So the headroom varies, unlike the other versions. I know it was cheaper to build them this way. Also, when the pop-top covers are installed on the other boats, you gain some nice storage area at night on the cabin top. The MK-II's also have no exterior wood, so as I've said in the past, they tend to have the personality of a Clorox bottle, but when the day is over, I rinse the boat down and walk away. No sanding, no varnishing, maybe some occasional metal polish, but the MK-II's require much less maintenance. BUT! a cleaned up, decked out "new design" C-22 is the prettiest girl in the marina!
Those are my opinions......but I believe Catalina really hit the nail square on the head with the MK-II's for us cruisers.
Don
Thanks Don. I really appreciate your insights. I have a few years before my wife and I can devote our summers to trailer sailing; but, your info sure suggests that I should watch for any MKII wing keel opportunities. And I hear you on the swing keel - love it; but, always have those keel bolt issues in the back of my mind.
I think you also owned a Sport or a Capri? I love their long cockpits - great for day sailing with guests aboard; but, it's still a 22-ft boat, so the roomy cockpit has got to be at the expense of the cabin. Is there a difference between a Capri and a Sport? I know the racers like them - is one a full keel and the other a swing keel?
I think you also owned a Sport or a Capri? I love their long cockpits - great for day sailing with guests aboard; but, it's still a 22-ft boat, so the roomy cockpit has got to be at the expense of the cabin. Is there a difference between a Capri and a Sport? I know the racers like them - is one a full keel and the other a swing keel?
Bob,
We haven't owned a C-22 Sport, but we did have a Capri-18 for awhile when we first moved back to San Diego and got back into sailing. They are the GREATEST little unknown boats out there. Our's was a wing keel version, and I was very impressed with the performance of the boat. Sharing many of the components with her big sister the Capri-22, they are WAY overbuilt! Apsolutely unsinkable with expanding closed cell foam between the hull and the liner, (think "Boston Whaler"). And it's super sticky stuff that bonds the hull to the liner making a stiff hull. They have two very comfortable long quarter berths port and starboard, or you can install the filler cushions and sleep athwartships, and with her 7 1/2' beam, you now have a queen size bed! But, they lacked "potty privacy", an important item for the Admiral,(and me too), so that's when we started looking for another Catalina-22. Our first couple trips to Catalina Island was on our Capri-18, and our first whale watching experience was with the Capri-18 also. Some how you just never forget it when two 35-40' whales come up along side you and blow off, and your're on an 18' boat!
Very fond memories of our short experience with a Capri-18 :dance:
The Capri-22 and the Catalina-22 Sport are completely different boats. I understand the Sport uses the old "new design C-22" hull mold, but has an updated deck with the tear drop cabin windows like the Capri's and the C-250 had. Plus, the Capri-22 is a fractional rig and available with a wing keel or fin keel. The C-22 Sport is a mast head rig and only available with a swing keel, but has a larger cockpit similar to the Capri-22.
Don
We haven't owned a C-22 Sport, but we did have a Capri-18 for awhile when we first moved back to San Diego and got back into sailing. They are the GREATEST little unknown boats out there. Our's was a wing keel version, and I was very impressed with the performance of the boat. Sharing many of the components with her big sister the Capri-22, they are WAY overbuilt! Apsolutely unsinkable with expanding closed cell foam between the hull and the liner, (think "Boston Whaler"). And it's super sticky stuff that bonds the hull to the liner making a stiff hull. They have two very comfortable long quarter berths port and starboard, or you can install the filler cushions and sleep athwartships, and with her 7 1/2' beam, you now have a queen size bed! But, they lacked "potty privacy", an important item for the Admiral,(and me too), so that's when we started looking for another Catalina-22. Our first couple trips to Catalina Island was on our Capri-18, and our first whale watching experience was with the Capri-18 also. Some how you just never forget it when two 35-40' whales come up along side you and blow off, and your're on an 18' boat!
Very fond memories of our short experience with a Capri-18 :dance:
The Capri-22 and the Catalina-22 Sport are completely different boats. I understand the Sport uses the old "new design C-22" hull mold, but has an updated deck with the tear drop cabin windows like the Capri's and the C-250 had. Plus, the Capri-22 is a fractional rig and available with a wing keel or fin keel. The C-22 Sport is a mast head rig and only available with a swing keel, but has a larger cockpit similar to the Capri-22.
Don
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Hey Cap't Don. Thanks so much for the advice. I went to St Louis from Northern Michigan this weekend and picked my MKII. You were sure right . By the time I got there the seller had two other offers.But he was kind enough to have held the boat for me. Won't be able to get out til spring (snow here already) but can't wait.Best Regards, Polar Bear
Thanks Polarbear. As a native "Troll-Michigander", born and raised on the east side of Detroit. We pick up our first C-22 north of Detroit in February. The wind was blowing off frozen Lake St Clair, we could only stay outside about 20 minutes at a time. Had to lift the boat off a cradle and place her on the trailer for the drive back to Kansas City.
Love to see some photos of the MK-II! I truly believe with the demand for the MK-II versions so high, they will be commanding a premium price for a long time. Not many boats can claim that.
Don
Love to see some photos of the MK-II! I truly believe with the demand for the MK-II versions so high, they will be commanding a premium price for a long time. Not many boats can claim that.
Don
Welcome aboard! We're down in San Diego. We keep our C-22 MK-II in Mission Bay when she's not being trailered somewhere.
Don
Don
Hi Capt Don . Thanks so much for your help Liked your story about Lk St Clair. With Michigan's abundant shoreline and lakes , it's a great place to sail. But as you may remember : Summer in defined in Michigan as three months of bad ice fishing. Want to show you photos of the MKII . Just trying to figure out how to post them here. P Bear
Polarbear,
Yeah, I'm familiar with the short summer season on the Great Lakes. I grew up on the east side of Detroit, and my Grandparents retired to a beautiful home on the North Channel of the St Clair River Delta, just a few miles down the river from Algonac,(the home of Chris-Craft). MAN! The water never warmed up. The best it would do is in Lake St Clair where the shallow lake would allow the water time to warm up a little.
Feel free to send the photos to my e:mail address and I can post them.
Don
Yeah, I'm familiar with the short summer season on the Great Lakes. I grew up on the east side of Detroit, and my Grandparents retired to a beautiful home on the North Channel of the St Clair River Delta, just a few miles down the river from Algonac,(the home of Chris-Craft). MAN! The water never warmed up. The best it would do is in Lake St Clair where the shallow lake would allow the water time to warm up a little.
Feel free to send the photos to my e:mail address and I can post them.
Don