Catalina 22 external outhaul question 101

higgs · Oct 23, 2012

I don't know the characteristics of the C22, but some boats are jib driven and do not sail at all well under main alone. On the other hand, if your main is stretched out and baggy - if the draft is pronounced, it will not sail you well. Loose footed or no a baggy main will hurt your speed a lot. This assumes you have the trim close to correct, which, from your post, I would bet you do. The outhaul will get bag out of your main as the wind pipes up, but if the main is stretched out, the outhaul will do little. I have a pretty good main and my boat will not move much under main alone. We need hear from other C22 owners on how that boat sails under main alone.

Ray Bowles · Oct 23, 2012

Nrml, You've done well with what you have in equipment and knowledge to date. Now lets change that.
A Catalina 22 is a masthead rig and therefore the headsail is the powerhouse.
The main will move the boat but without any style. Do you have the battens in? Next, the halyard should be loosened so there is the start of wrinkles between the tract slugs. That amounts to hoisting the sail somewhat snugly and then giving back 1 to 2 inches of halyard slack. The outhaul should have a full pull mark on the boom (without really reefing it back) when snugly pulled back. Then mark that point (6)and mark 1 inch increments forward 6 inches ( that is the 0 starting mark).
For low wind sailing the halyard is set loose (down 2 to 3 inches) and the outhaul is set at 2. The boom vang off and the mainsheet is loose and centered.

High winds require the halyard sungly up, outhaul back at 4 to 5, vang off and mainsheet tight. Bigger winds require reefing the main and a C22 with reefed main only is simply a sailboat ocupying space in the lake with a white flag up.

Until you have more experence your 150 mounted on a roller is really too much sail for any winds over 10 mph. When rolled in it will not provide a very good substitute for a 135 or 120. The 150 with your main is a real powerhouse for winds in the 8 to 12 mph range. While learning you really need a 100 to 110 jib that you can slide on your roller. Changing these head sails is really an easy thing to do. Then you can sail in any winds until you are very experenced.
Try sailing with your head sail only. These smaller boats work nicely that way and handle much better than with the main only, even more so when only using 1 sail.
I would advise you to secure a recently written book on sail trim and study them through the winter and then you will understand what your boat wants you to do.
Sail Trim, Theory and Practice by Peter Hahne
Mainsail Trimming by Felix Marks*
Headsail Trim by (I think) Felix Marks *
The New Book Of Sail Trim edited by Ken Textor*
The Handbook of Sailing by Bob Bond
* Some of these books can only be found used through Barns and Noble etc. but truly worth the effort!
I have had or currently have 5 sailboats under 26 feet and 1 38 foot boat we lived and sailed on. My current boat is an 82 San Juan 23 that the headsails are a 170 drifter, 153 genoa, 115 jib, 70 storm jib and a spinakker. I have a mainsail like your mainsail with a foot shelf. These work fine but if I replace it it will be with a loose footed, fully battened main. My boat is also headsail driven and thus the selection of headsails.
Good Luck, Ray

Scott T-Bird · Oct 24, 2012

I was sailing with a friend the other day and he did not know the difference between a masthead rig and a fractional rig. He's been sailing for a few years and has two small boats (a Venture 21 with a masthead and a smaller boat with fractional rig), so don't be embarrassed to ask the questions.

The forestay of the masthead rig attaches at the top of the mast. The location of the mast is actually slightly aft compared to a fractional rig. The sail plan calls for a larger head sail and a smaller mainsail. The head sail is the "engine" for your boat and you won't move very well without it. On my masthead-rigged Starwind, the mainsail alone would be essentially worthless for sailing upwind in a light breeze or zephyr. The genoa has to be utilized to move the boat. In fact, the order of trimming the sails is genoa first, then mainsail. That's the order of importance for a masthead-rigged sailboat.

The forestay of a fractional rig is attached a fraction of the way up the mast. The mast is actually slightly forward compared to a masthead rig, and the mainsail is larger and is the engine for the boat. The mainsail is trimmed first, then the genoa. These boats will happily sail without the genoa.

Which rig is better? That's a topic for lengthy discussions and offsetting arguments!

You may have been observing a fractional rig (Hunters are fractional) with the larger mainsail doing everything so well without the jib.

On your Catalina with masthead rig, aside from having poor performance when you don't raise the genoa, your mainsail is undoubtedly old and baggy and has lost its shape. You can do your best to improve it with sail trim until you finally buy a new one. Most people opt for the loose-footed main because it is so much easier to adjust the outhaul for the right draft.

I also think a 150 genoa is too big for upwind sailing. I bought a 150 genoa thinking that bigger is better, (and "go big or go home"). In reality, a 12 knot breeze turns into at least 17 knots apparent when beating into the wind. The forestay sags and the leech flutters too much if you try to twist it off. I installed a backstay adjustment rig to eliminate forestay sag (a sagging forestay really hurts upwind pointing angles, causes the boat to heel, and induces too much weather helm).

A 135 in that wind range would undoubtedly be better performing. You might consider how much your forestay sags when you have that head sail all the way unfurled. It could easily be a significant factor if you feel the performance of the boat is lacking. The shape of the head sail is cut with an assumption of a specific amount of sag. If the forestay sags too much under load, the shape of the sail could be ruined, and the larger the sail, the more likely it will be that the forestay is sagging beyond an acceptable amount due to the increased pressures (the forestay is actually sagging to leeward, making the headsail a bucket when you want a blade).

I found that by adjusting my backstay tension when sailing upwind with the large genoa, which puts more tension on the forestay and reduces sag, I improve pointing and performance significantly.

Scott T-Bird · Oct 24, 2012

No, your 150 will be fine ... I wouldn't worry about it.

You probably done right just by getting a new genoa instead of the main.

I don't race my boat. I'd like to some day but for now, I don't worry about optimizing the pointing angles. It's great to have a big sail when you are running downwind!

Does your furler have reefing capabilities? If so, you at least have the option of rolling some of the sail in depending on the wind conditions.

I also think it is a great idea to add the outhaul adjustment. It is probably the single biggest thing you can do to improve the shape of your mainsail. Adjusting the depth of draft is very important and when sailors ignore it, they are being foolish.

I'm not sure about your question regarding the slug. Are you asking that if you had a slug at the clew can you convert your sail to loose-footed? I would guess that it might be possible to have a sail maker cut out the shelf foot and add a clew to make it loose footed. I don't think that would be worthwhile. You are better off just waiting until you buy a loose-footed main.

With regard to the diagram, I assume that strap A is on the opposite side of the boom. Cheek block B wants to be as far aft on the boom as you can fit it. The cheek block should be aft of the clew at all settings, even when the clew is all the way aft to flatten the main. You want to make sure that you are setting the strap and Cleat D far enough forward and with enough line travel to allow Block C the full run of travel for setting the clew position anywhere you might want it. The trick is in setting the cleat not too far forward that you can't access it from the cockpit.

HTH, Scott

Scott T-Bird · Oct 24, 2012

No, the line will be fine passing thru the clew but you want to use a high quality line there. It must have high strength and low stretch. Does the diagram clearly show Strap A on the opposite side of the boom?

If you feel that the clew causes too much friction, you might have room to attach a small block to the clew, either with a shackle or lashings, if that makes you feel better about it. It's not a bad addition but it shouldn't be necessary.

finding41 · Oct 24, 2012

I just want to mention the baggy main sail. Perhaps cut the bottom of the bolt rope to get some of the bag out of the sail. Search threads on this site.
Or here is what I was thinking: http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=830827&highlight=bolt rope
I purchased a used sail and am planning to loosen the bolt rope. The sail is perfect except it's bolt rope has shrunk considerably.
Good luck.

higgs · Oct 24, 2012

I think the problem is a shot main.

Catalina 22 external outhaul question 101

Nrmlspeed

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higgs

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Ray Bowles

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Scott T-Bird

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Nrmlspeed

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Scott T-Bird

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Nrmlspeed

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Scott T-Bird

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Nrmlspeed

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finding41

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higgs

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Nrmlspeed

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