Cat 27 or 30?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Nov 22, 2011
1,252
Ericson 26-2 San Pedro, CA
Stu,

Thank you for your reply and your good insights. I appreciate them.

I will say, though, that as far as experimenting with different positions in relation to the wheel--to the side, in front, behind, sitting, standing, etc.--I've been there and done that. My C30 was a Mk-II with the T-cockpit and I upgraded the wheel to 36". So for a C30 it was about as good as it gets. Yet, for me anyway, I could never find a position that was comfortable for too very long and none as comfortable as with my current tiller steered boat.

I should say also that which position was most comfortable with a wheel did depend upon the wind and sea conditions, as well as the point of sail. So, for example, when beam or broad reaching with surfing down the side of swells, it was hands down easiest to steer in a standing position, behind the wheel. That's because this position gave me the most leverage over the wheel as well as the greatest "throw" to move the wheel the greatest amount from side-to-side without having to reposition my hands. This is critical as the boat tends to round up while coming down the swell and then level out after the swell has passed. (That's all well and good, but on a trip home from the Isthmus, surfing all the way, it could require me to stand at the helm for 3 or 4 hours, which gets tiring.) When heeling on a beat, planting my butt on the coaming often was preferable, which then required me to brace one of my feet against the pedastal guard to keep my body from sliding to leeward. This could work on a beat because on that course relatively small wheel corrections are necessary once the boat is trimmed properly, and the fact that in this position you have relatively less "throw" without having to reposition your hands is not such an issue. And, in calmer conditions where little wheel movement was necessary, sitting in front of it seemed to work OK.

Still, none of these positions was as comfortable as wedging myself in the front of the cockpit and bracing my foot against the opposite cockpit seat, tiller in hand. I can stay in the same position for any steering condition, comfortable and secure.

I should point out that I am only 5' 7"--in other words, short. Perhaps people with longer arms and torsos will relate a different experience. I upgraded to the 36" wheel so I wouldn't have to lean in when steering from the side, and I will say that this did help a great deal in my case. But still, for me at least, nothing beats a tiller on a boat with a light helm.

Of course, there's always the autopilot! :) My C30 had an ST4000+ and my current boat has an ST2000 tiller pilot. I found myself using the wheel pilot a great deal more on the C30 because steering it was much less fun than on my current boat. On my E26 I use the autopilot mostly under power, where hand steering isn't much fun on any boat, or when I'm under sail and need to use the head or make a sandwich. Otherwise, I really enjoy the steering part and leave the tiller pilot on standby a good deal of the time.
 
Nov 7, 2012
678
1978 Catalina 30 Wilbur-by-the-Sea
One good thing about a tiller is you can add a tiller extender and pretty much control the rudder from any position in the cockpit. That said, underway in my 27 more than 2 in the cockpit gets annoying. I would think it would be a lot better if the 27 your interested in has the traveler and main sheet atop the cabin, mine does not.
 

dj2210

.
Feb 4, 2012
337
Catalina 30 Watts Bar
I've owned both also. My C27 with tiller and A4 was fun to sail and very comfortable with tiller. As others have said it just feels more responsive. The issue I had was head height in cabin, side deck space for footing, and engine accessability. I converted the A4 to an electric motor so I didn't need to access that space very often. The C30's cabin seems cavernous compared to the C27. I can actually walk past the spreaders. The engine compartment is way more accessible. I also sit to the side on the coming to steer and reach the primary winches. The cockpit is basically no difference between the two and I have a T shape on my C30. The winches on both boats are mid cockpit and people always seem to be in the way.
 

jrowan

.
Mar 5, 2011
1,294
O'Day 35 Severn River, Mobjack Bay, Va.
Stu,

Thank you for your reply and your good insights. I appreciate them.

I will say, though, that as far as experimenting with different positions in relation to the wheel--to the side, in front, behind, sitting, standing, etc.--I've been there and done that. My C30 was a Mk-II with the T-cockpit and I upgraded the wheel to 36". So for a C30 it was about as good as it gets. Yet, for me anyway, I could never find a position that was comfortable for too very long and none as comfortable as with my current tiller steered boat.

I should say also that which position was most comfortable with a wheel did depend upon the wind and sea conditions, as well as the point of sail. So, for example, when beam or broad reaching with surfing down the side of swells, it was hands down easiest to steer in a standing position, behind the wheel. That's because this position gave me the most leverage over the wheel as well as the greatest "throw" to move the wheel the greatest amount from side-to-side without having to reposition my hands. This is critical as the boat tends to round up while coming down the swell and then level out after the swell has passed. (That's all well and good, but on a trip home from the Isthmus, surfing all the way, it could require me to stand at the helm for 3 or 4 hours, which gets tiring.) When heeling on a beat, planting my butt on the coaming often was preferable, which then required me to brace one of my feet against the pedastal guard to keep my body from sliding to leeward. This could work on a beat because on that course relatively small wheel corrections are necessary once the boat is trimmed properly, and the fact that in this position you have relatively less "throw" without having to reposition your hands is not such an issue. And, in calmer conditions where little wheel movement was necessary, sitting in front of it seemed to work OK.

Still, none of these positions was as comfortable as wedging myself in the front of the cockpit and bracing my foot against the opposite cockpit seat, tiller in hand. I can stay in the same position for any steering condition, comfortable and secure.

I should point out that I am only 5' 7"--in other words, short. Perhaps people with longer arms and torsos will relate a different experience. I upgraded to the 36" wheel so I wouldn't have to lean in when steering from the side, and I will say that this did help a great deal in my case. But still, for me at least, nothing beats a tiller on a boat with a light helm.

Of course, there's always the autopilot! :) My C30 had an ST4000+ and my current boat has an ST2000 tiller pilot. I found myself using the wheel pilot a great deal more on the C30 because steering it was much less fun than on my current boat. On my E26 I use the autopilot mostly under power, where hand steering isn't much fun on any boat, or when I'm under sail and need to use the head or make a sandwich. Otherwise, I really enjoy the steering part and leave the tiller pilot on standby a good deal of the time.
To each their own when regarding a tiller. But its funny that your response to Stu seems to reinforce why a wheel is preferential & indeed more efficient to control the heavy C-30 when surfing down a wave, on a reach or beating to wheather, etc. I don't know of too many C 30's that still have a tiller to steer this heavy boat, that I think you must agree is heavy at the helm & would be tiresome to control via tiller. That was my point. Also, if fighting that stick for hours makes you tired, then it is inherintly less practical, & is even a safety issue. As some of us don't have an auto pilot, its nice to lock the wheel down quickly for a few moments to reach a line or go below for a few moments. Tillers need constant adjustment, unless the helm is perfectly balanced, which is a rarity. I have also owned 3 boats with a tiller (2 of them Catalinas: A C-22 & C-25), so I think I speak with some experience with them.
As most of us lifelong sailors are all getting older, it just makes sense to make our sailing experiences easier & more enjoyable. I sail for the enjoyment, recreation & to reach a destination, not to prove to anyone how salty I am or pretend to be Capt. Ahab. I find that sitting FORWARD with my back resting on a cushion & not craning my neck & twisting my waist around to see forward is A LOT more comfortable. I would think that a lot of other sailors agree with me, since 3/4 of C 30's were built from the factory with wheel steering. But I do not want to argue about the tiller vs. wheel issue. I think I give good advice regarding the C 30 vs. other Catalina models, as I can directly compare sailing & owning 3 different models. As far as tiller vs. wheel, there is no comparison: wheels rule! LOL.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.