We are new to sailing and are trying to decide between a Catalina 27 or 30. Most of the time the boat will be used for daysailing or cruising Huntington Harbor. We would probably make weekend trips to Catalina a few times during the summer. While it's obvious the 30 is better for overnight trips, can you also have more people aboard during daysails? Our neighbor has a Cat 27 and he says he only takes out 6 people for day sails. Could we take more than that on a 30?
Cat 27 or 30?
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I've never had more than 6 on my 320 while sailing, they get in the way if you are actually trying to sail with everyone in the cockpit. Fits ten or more adults for happy hour at the dock however. We usually have 6 to crew a 36 for racing and a couple of them are either on the deck or rail, not the cockpit.
If you have not yet done so, you should really take a thorough look inside and out at an example of each. The 30 is close to 50% bigger in feel and size than the 27. It would definitely be my choice for Catalina trips. However, having spent some time on the water in Huntington Harbor, it is not the boat for there. Neither of these will fit under the bridge without a fair amount of hassle, the 30 being way beyond difficult. Even with a tabernacled mast I think it would end up rarely venturing outside, if at all. I also think it would really not be a comfortable day sailor for that harbor. There are other choices unless you are sold on these two options.
Thanks for the input. We have been on both boats. Our neighbor has a 27 tall mast with the tabernacle and it fits under the bridge pretty easily. Cruising the harbor would just be motoring the channels for Christmas light tours and such. I was just wondering if you could daysail comfortably with more people on the 30 ft.
Are you committed to Huntington Harbor? If you're thinking Sunset Marina, it shoals up and requires regular dredging. Tabernacle rigs are necessary of course but there are other marinas where they're not. And they're closer to Catalina by about 1½ hours. A little extra freeway time can pay dividends.
We love our TR 27 but the extra space a 30 has is sweet, 6 on a 27 gets tight! but bigger is not always better the major one is everything as you go larger gets more expensive!
it depends...
Overall reputation is that the 27 is disproportionally faster for its size, i.e. a better "sailing" sailboat.
It all gets back to your goals.... sailing or comfort at the dock, I would imagine. And, be sure to find a 27 with a tiller.
OTOH, if you get the 30, get the wheel version.
L
A good friend of mine had a C-27 and even changed the rudder to the Booth version for more control. He moved to a C-30, but it was very slightly little faster and generally less responsive.
Overall reputation is that the 27 is disproportionally faster for its size, i.e. a better "sailing" sailboat.
It all gets back to your goals.... sailing or comfort at the dock, I would imagine. And, be sure to find a 27 with a tiller.
OTOH, if you get the 30, get the wheel version.
L
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Still pondering this question. So from the responses I got, am I correct in assuming that the 30' Catalina offers more space for sleeping but doesn't necessarily allow for more people when daysailing? I have an opportunity to buy a 27' Catalina that is well cared for and already has the tarbernacled mast we need. After shopping around, it looks like a well maintained Catalina 30 plus the cost to modify the mast will be at least double the price (if not triple). Since we will spend ninety percent of our time daysailing, I'm not sure the cost is worth it.
Your pocketbook, your choice. 
Really.
What systems does the C27 have, i.e., engine (type - gas diesel, hours, age, condition, sails' condition, cushions - 1980s plaid turns some people off, rigging, etc.)?
Only YOU can answer that question, though.
Good luck.
Really.What systems does the C27 have, i.e., engine (type - gas diesel, hours, age, condition, sails' condition, cushions - 1980s plaid turns some people off, rigging, etc.)?
Only YOU can answer that question, though.
Good luck.
The 27' is a gas engine. The boat is really well-maintained. I just don't want to underbuy so it's really a question of how many people can actually daysail on a 27' versus a 30'
The cockpits aren't that much different. For example, our C22 and C25 used the same cushions. I'd say no difference. Besides, although you could "hold" more guests overall on a C30, some of them would have to be down below which is NOT conducive to comfort. IIRC, there was a recent thread about how many people can safely fit on a boat. Other than racing, six is about a good comfort zone for a cockpit.
If you have to pay by the foot for your slip the C27 is a bit easier on the wallet.
We went for a 27 for cost savings, we plan on going to a 36+ in a few years anyway and the cost savings on slips etc over a 30 will actually be more than we paid for our boat. In a way it is paying for itself.
Really it is all up to you, take each for a spin and then decide.
We went for a 27 for cost savings, we plan on going to a 36+ in a few years anyway and the cost savings on slips etc over a 30 will actually be more than we paid for our boat. In a way it is paying for itself.
Really it is all up to you, take each for a spin and then decide.
Hi,
The amount of people that you can take aboard seams to be a good factor for you.
But, I think that you should keep in mind that if you are planning to go sailing for fun with friends, 4 peoples in a cockpit these size is good for me. There will always have someone in the way, that will have to move to leave you room to manoeuvre. You need access to a winch or ....
You can get 6 max. Unless you bring them motoring.
As a reference, check in the cockpit cushion section and see if the C27 and C30 are the same kit, you'll see if the seats are the same length.
That is my opinion.
The amount of people that you can take aboard seams to be a good factor for you.
But, I think that you should keep in mind that if you are planning to go sailing for fun with friends, 4 peoples in a cockpit these size is good for me. There will always have someone in the way, that will have to move to leave you room to manoeuvre. You need access to a winch or ....
You can get 6 max. Unless you bring them motoring.
As a reference, check in the cockpit cushion section and see if the C27 and C30 are the same kit, you'll see if the seats are the same length.
That is my opinion.
I have never measured cushion length between the c27 & c30 but i have owned a C22, C25 & now C30 & the difference between the C27 & C30 is more then measurable.
The C27 is a fun & responsive boat. I do not feel that there is much difference in maintenance costs, as all boats cost $$ to maintain. I would not buy a boat for how many people the cockpit will hold, but for the pleasure that the boat gives YOU & your first mate. That said, I have never heard a sailor regret buying a boat a lil' bigger, but plenty of gripes about one being too small. The C 30 has standing headroom for a sailor over 6 feet. Its beam is 10 feet 10". it weighs considerable more then a C 27 with weight at 10,000 lbs. empty, or over 7 tons. Weight in the hull & keel = comfort & ease of moton under way, as does a longer water line. I can completely stretch out on the seats of the C 30 with room to spare. 6 would be the max I would want in ANY cockpit. I do rather enjoy sitting behind the wheel of the C 30 facing FORWARD, without twisting my body on a bench seat, as the C 30 bench runs acroos the stern for better ergonomics. This does matter as one ages.
As the former owner of tiller boats, there is no comparison between the comfort & ease of wheel steering & the wear that a tiller has on the body after 4-6 hours of fighting that stick. Once U sail with a wheel U will never go back to the archain tiller. If U have the budget then go big with the C30 & U will not be disappointed. It is the biggest 30 footer ever made in terms of cabin & berth capacity. But if the C27 is what U can afford, then its better to sail something then nothin! They are both good boat designs. But don't buy a boat for how many people it will hold. Sail both boats, & let them speak to you about there pluses & minuses. Cheers.
The C27 is a fun & responsive boat. I do not feel that there is much difference in maintenance costs, as all boats cost $$ to maintain. I would not buy a boat for how many people the cockpit will hold, but for the pleasure that the boat gives YOU & your first mate. That said, I have never heard a sailor regret buying a boat a lil' bigger, but plenty of gripes about one being too small. The C 30 has standing headroom for a sailor over 6 feet. Its beam is 10 feet 10". it weighs considerable more then a C 27 with weight at 10,000 lbs. empty, or over 7 tons. Weight in the hull & keel = comfort & ease of moton under way, as does a longer water line. I can completely stretch out on the seats of the C 30 with room to spare. 6 would be the max I would want in ANY cockpit. I do rather enjoy sitting behind the wheel of the C 30 facing FORWARD, without twisting my body on a bench seat, as the C 30 bench runs acroos the stern for better ergonomics. This does matter as one ages.
As the former owner of tiller boats, there is no comparison between the comfort & ease of wheel steering & the wear that a tiller has on the body after 4-6 hours of fighting that stick. Once U sail with a wheel U will never go back to the archain tiller. If U have the budget then go big with the C30 & U will not be disappointed. It is the biggest 30 footer ever made in terms of cabin & berth capacity. But if the C27 is what U can afford, then its better to sail something then nothin! They are both good boat designs. But don't buy a boat for how many people it will hold. Sail both boats, & let them speak to you about there pluses & minuses. Cheers.
Last year, we decided to move up from a C-22. We looked at a few C-27s and C-30s. We thought the C-30 was a much better value. I would say the price difference is just a couple of thousand more, all things being equal. Of course, any services that are "by the foot" will also be a bit more.
We settled on an '82 C-30 tall, with a wheel and an A4. We love the room and the smooth ride. Last week we ran the A4 wide open for 4 hours at 7 knots, without a glitch.
I've had 6 guests in the cockpit, and it's pretty crowded. I wouldn't want to sail in more than light air. I can hardly imagine how it would work with a smaller boat. Tacking with a tiller would be like musical chairs.
We settled on an '82 C-30 tall, with a wheel and an A4. We love the room and the smooth ride. Last week we ran the A4 wide open for 4 hours at 7 knots, without a glitch.
I've had 6 guests in the cockpit, and it's pretty crowded. I wouldn't want to sail in more than light air. I can hardly imagine how it would work with a smaller boat. Tacking with a tiller would be like musical chairs.
A contrary opinion
A year and a half ago I sold my 1987 Catalina 30 MK-II and downsized to an Ericson 26-2. While I liked many things about the C30, I decided that it was more boat than I needed, especially because I tend to singlehand a great deal.
For me, anyway, the Ericson 26 is a much more fun boat to sail. One of the things I disliked most about the Catalina 30 was the wheel steering. This is not a criticism of the Catalina's wheel steering in particular--there was nothing wrong with it as such--but rather a statement of my personal dislike of wheels. I've never found one that I liked. I really tried to warm up to it, mind you, but in the 8+ years I owned the boat I never cared for it. I found sitting or standing at the wheel uncomfortable for long periods of time. I much prefer sitting with my back against the cockpit coaming, bracing my foot on the opposite side of the cockpit, and steering from that position. The ergonomics just work better for me, at any rate. I found with the wheel that I was frequently changing positions to remain comfortable, whereas with the tiller I can stay put for much longer with greater comfort, given the back support and ability to brace myself with my foot. The tiller also puts me in the forward part of the cockpit, in a good position for operating the traveler and other lines led to the companionway.
Provided that the boat has a light helm--as my Ericson 26 does--then I find it much more enjoyable steering with the tiller. The tiller gives me a better "feel" than a wheel, which tends to insulate me from the helm. However, a boat with a heavier helm, such as a C30, really needs a wheel for the mechanical advantage; I think that boat would be a bear to sail with a tiller. But it's pure joy to surf down the side of a swell, bombing home from Isthmus cove on a broad reach, when steering with a tiller on a boat like the one I presently own.
Anyway, I'm not trying to kindle a "tiller vs. wheel" war, and to those who prefer wheels, I say, "Good on ya!" But I do object to a blanket statement like, "once you sail with a wheel you will never go back to a tiller"; that has certainly not been true for me. For me it's quite the opposite: If it should turn out that I want to get another boat someday, I'm quite sure I'll do my best to avoid getting one with a wheel--or at least one that cannot be readily converted back to tiller steering. But again, that assumes a boat with a nicely balanced, light helm.
As for the C30 generally: It's a great boat and I'm glad I owned it. While I enjoy sailing my present boat more than it, the C30 does not have any glaringly bad sailing characteristics. It's a good, honest boat with a fantastic interior for a boat its size. I cruised mine to Ensenada and found it very comfortable with three of us aboard. I've done shorter trips with four and we still remained friends. I think they are reasonably well built and there is excellent support, both here and especially on the Yahoo Catalina 30 list. It's certainly worth considering.
I'm going to present a contrary opinion to some of the above.
A year and a half ago I sold my 1987 Catalina 30 MK-II and downsized to an Ericson 26-2. While I liked many things about the C30, I decided that it was more boat than I needed, especially because I tend to singlehand a great deal.
For me, anyway, the Ericson 26 is a much more fun boat to sail. One of the things I disliked most about the Catalina 30 was the wheel steering. This is not a criticism of the Catalina's wheel steering in particular--there was nothing wrong with it as such--but rather a statement of my personal dislike of wheels. I've never found one that I liked. I really tried to warm up to it, mind you, but in the 8+ years I owned the boat I never cared for it. I found sitting or standing at the wheel uncomfortable for long periods of time. I much prefer sitting with my back against the cockpit coaming, bracing my foot on the opposite side of the cockpit, and steering from that position. The ergonomics just work better for me, at any rate. I found with the wheel that I was frequently changing positions to remain comfortable, whereas with the tiller I can stay put for much longer with greater comfort, given the back support and ability to brace myself with my foot. The tiller also puts me in the forward part of the cockpit, in a good position for operating the traveler and other lines led to the companionway.
Provided that the boat has a light helm--as my Ericson 26 does--then I find it much more enjoyable steering with the tiller. The tiller gives me a better "feel" than a wheel, which tends to insulate me from the helm. However, a boat with a heavier helm, such as a C30, really needs a wheel for the mechanical advantage; I think that boat would be a bear to sail with a tiller. But it's pure joy to surf down the side of a swell, bombing home from Isthmus cove on a broad reach, when steering with a tiller on a boat like the one I presently own.
Anyway, I'm not trying to kindle a "tiller vs. wheel" war, and to those who prefer wheels, I say, "Good on ya!" But I do object to a blanket statement like, "once you sail with a wheel you will never go back to a tiller"; that has certainly not been true for me. For me it's quite the opposite: If it should turn out that I want to get another boat someday, I'm quite sure I'll do my best to avoid getting one with a wheel--or at least one that cannot be readily converted back to tiller steering. But again, that assumes a boat with a nicely balanced, light helm.
As for the C30 generally: It's a great boat and I'm glad I owned it. While I enjoy sailing my present boat more than it, the C30 does not have any glaringly bad sailing characteristics. It's a good, honest boat with a fantastic interior for a boat its size. I cruised mine to Ensenada and found it very comfortable with three of us aboard. I've done shorter trips with four and we still remained friends. I think they are reasonably well built and there is excellent support, both here and especially on the Yahoo Catalina 30 list. It's certainly worth considering.
Alan, that's a very good presentation, and a good reason, among others, for someone to prefer a tiller, and, quite frankly, one I had never heard before put quite that succinctly.
Thanks.
There is one thing I think should be added to any discussion about cockpit ergonomics. Many, many skippers end up being "slaves behind the wheel" and in many cases feel the same way you do. Added to that is that when behind the wheel one is at the end of the boat where there is the most motion, as compared to being forward in the cockpit as you mentioned when using a tiller. Being closer to the companionway inherently is at a much more stable part of the boat.
I have found, after 15 years of tiller boats and now 15 with our wheel, that I spent almost ZERO, ZILCH, NADA time "behind" the wheel. Except for leaving the slip and coming back and when I feel like sitting up on our perch seat, I am always in front of the wheel. The autopilot steers, whether sailing or motoring, and I have time to lookout, navigate and sail, as well as enjoying the ride. It IS a lot more comfortable further forward in the cockpit, and the motion is a lot less "bouncy." Our autopilot control head is in line with the wheel on the coaming side, with easy access from both behind and in front of the wheel.
Many skippers have also felt very comfortable sitting on the coaming and steering from the side of the wheel.
Your boat, your choice.
PS - I agree, that silly "tiller vs. wheel" discussion lost its glitter a loooong looong time ago.
Thanks.
There is one thing I think should be added to any discussion about cockpit ergonomics. Many, many skippers end up being "slaves behind the wheel" and in many cases feel the same way you do. Added to that is that when behind the wheel one is at the end of the boat where there is the most motion, as compared to being forward in the cockpit as you mentioned when using a tiller. Being closer to the companionway inherently is at a much more stable part of the boat.
I have found, after 15 years of tiller boats and now 15 with our wheel, that I spent almost ZERO, ZILCH, NADA time "behind" the wheel. Except for leaving the slip and coming back and when I feel like sitting up on our perch seat, I am always in front of the wheel. The autopilot steers, whether sailing or motoring, and I have time to lookout, navigate and sail, as well as enjoying the ride. It IS a lot more comfortable further forward in the cockpit, and the motion is a lot less "bouncy." Our autopilot control head is in line with the wheel on the coaming side, with easy access from both behind and in front of the wheel.
Many skippers have also felt very comfortable sitting on the coaming and steering from the side of the wheel.
Your boat, your choice.
PS - I agree, that silly "tiller vs. wheel" discussion lost its glitter a loooong looong time ago.
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