I have a Cat 22. I want to refit her innerds. I want to re-enforce her deck to her hull. Currently she is in Excellent shape. Inside: Get rid of sink, table and cooking area (space waster). Add comfy bed and storage of dry goods areas. Ouside: re-enforce deck to hull, upgrade standing and running rigging to class A , Modify hatch area to withstand Bluewater conditions. Or is it cheaper and faster to buy a newer catalina and leave the poor dear alone??!?!
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fix up the old one...
if you're trying to make a blue water boat out of a daysailor I don't think buying a newer boat of the same model will make any difference... just a larger initial expense and you'd still have to tackle all the projects already mentioned.
if you're trying to make a blue water boat out of a daysailor I don't think buying a newer boat of the same model will make any difference... just a larger initial expense and you'd still have to tackle all the projects already mentioned.
Reinforce
Not sure why someone would want to do these things. I would say that the rigging is fairly solid. With 6 shrouds and two stays mine withstood wind and waves last summer that two other different boats were demasted. I believe that on paper the boat is supposed to be good up to 6ft waves based upon the waterline length. (I wouldn't want to test this) Problem in heavy seas is that the variables are more interesting. Down below, I believe that the fglass in the sink area actually helps to reinforce the port bulkhead. The only reinforcement that I've seen done by racers is to attach the lower shroud fittings down at an angle to the bulkheads with turnbuckles. This takes the strain off the deck at the base of the lower shrouds. If the Deck's soft, it could be that the wood core is rotted from leaks. I replaced my bulkheads because some leaks in the shroud straps cause the bottom of the bulkheads to rot. I also made the attachment points of the bulkheads to the Fglass stronger. As far as using the boat for Bluewater, I would check with people like Philip and Sharon Merlier of Fla. and Chip Ford of Maine about the boat's capabilities. See the CD forum under Cruising areas. I know that Philip and Sharon have sailed to the Bahamas and around the Fla. Keys. As for a new 22. I don't think that the rigging and the glass is built to stronger specs on the newer ones. Just newer. Of course you can buy a new one that's laid out in the interior like a day sailer instead of a pop-top camper. If you are dedicated to this idea though, there is some good reading at the CD forum's "Cruising Areas" section (Specifically "Transatlantic crossing" that would give you some ideas on seaworthiness and correct mods. including using a solid keel and a keel stepped mast. "The truth is that even though I love the Catalina 22, and the boat is brilliant at what it was designed to do, you’d be better off modifying another boat for the same purpose. Look at the “Falmouth Cutter 22'” for a clue of what you may have to do, The “FLICKA” and the “Pacific Seacraft - Dana 24” are also good choices. By the time you make all of these upgrades you would have a one of a kind boat that is as expensive as one of these other small blue water boats."
Not sure why someone would want to do these things. I would say that the rigging is fairly solid. With 6 shrouds and two stays mine withstood wind and waves last summer that two other different boats were demasted. I believe that on paper the boat is supposed to be good up to 6ft waves based upon the waterline length. (I wouldn't want to test this) Problem in heavy seas is that the variables are more interesting. Down below, I believe that the fglass in the sink area actually helps to reinforce the port bulkhead. The only reinforcement that I've seen done by racers is to attach the lower shroud fittings down at an angle to the bulkheads with turnbuckles. This takes the strain off the deck at the base of the lower shrouds. If the Deck's soft, it could be that the wood core is rotted from leaks. I replaced my bulkheads because some leaks in the shroud straps cause the bottom of the bulkheads to rot. I also made the attachment points of the bulkheads to the Fglass stronger. As far as using the boat for Bluewater, I would check with people like Philip and Sharon Merlier of Fla. and Chip Ford of Maine about the boat's capabilities. See the CD forum under Cruising areas. I know that Philip and Sharon have sailed to the Bahamas and around the Fla. Keys. As for a new 22. I don't think that the rigging and the glass is built to stronger specs on the newer ones. Just newer. Of course you can buy a new one that's laid out in the interior like a day sailer instead of a pop-top camper. If you are dedicated to this idea though, there is some good reading at the CD forum's "Cruising Areas" section (Specifically "Transatlantic crossing" that would give you some ideas on seaworthiness and correct mods. including using a solid keel and a keel stepped mast. "The truth is that even though I love the Catalina 22, and the boat is brilliant at what it was designed to do, you’d be better off modifying another boat for the same purpose. Look at the “Falmouth Cutter 22'” for a clue of what you may have to do, The “FLICKA” and the “Pacific Seacraft - Dana 24” are also good choices. By the time you make all of these upgrades you would have a one of a kind boat that is as expensive as one of these other small blue water boats."
Decision
Bilbo, Thanks. After reading your advice, the last line is what backed me off the idea. The cost is prohibitive for that design. I'll leave her alone.
Bilbo, Thanks. After reading your advice, the last line is what backed me off the idea. The cost is prohibitive for that design. I'll leave her alone.
I'd agree
CW, I can't take credit for writing those lines. They come from the web site that mentioned on cruising issues. There were some good suggestions for things to do on that thread. I wouls post the exact URL but this forum management frowns on the competition. I think that we have to remember that the C22 is designed to do a certain type of service. What I can say is that my trailer came from a person who had a C22 that was lost on lake Erie. Basically a storm put his boat onto a breakwall,the high waves caused it to bang on the wall for about 4 hours before the boat finally sank. He never said if the boat sank because of hull damage or because of water entering from topsides. The lockers, the hatch boards, the pop top, the front hatch...Mine is also 1987 (13981) and I know that if everything is secured well but the stbd. seat hatch opens in a knockdown, she's going down. From what I've heard, Erie is a fair challenge for a C-22 at times. I think that the waves can get steep and the speed can make them closer together than on the ocean. I'm happy at my small lake.
CW, I can't take credit for writing those lines. They come from the web site that mentioned on cruising issues. There were some good suggestions for things to do on that thread. I wouls post the exact URL but this forum management frowns on the competition. I think that we have to remember that the C22 is designed to do a certain type of service. What I can say is that my trailer came from a person who had a C22 that was lost on lake Erie. Basically a storm put his boat onto a breakwall,the high waves caused it to bang on the wall for about 4 hours before the boat finally sank. He never said if the boat sank because of hull damage or because of water entering from topsides. The lockers, the hatch boards, the pop top, the front hatch...Mine is also 1987 (13981) and I know that if everything is secured well but the stbd. seat hatch opens in a knockdown, she's going down. From what I've heard, Erie is a fair challenge for a C-22 at times. I think that the waves can get steep and the speed can make them closer together than on the ocean. I'm happy at my small lake.
Lake Erie
Captain: I agree with one of the previous responses, i.e., why would you want to take a Catalina 22 and try to make it into a blue water sail boat. If Lake Erie is your desired destination I would really think hard about that. I have a '88 C22 #14479 that I bought new in '88 and sailed on inland water in Central Ohio and trailered to northwestern Lake Michigan for summer cruising - 20 to 25 mile passages with a little out of sight of land. The 22 is there permanently now. Lake Michigan is deep (mostly greater than 100 feet in northern Green Bay) and the waves are friendly. I would never have cruised in the 22 on Lake Erie, especially the western basin. The maximum water depth west of Sandusky is 20-30 feet and the waves are big, close together and come up quickly. In 2001 I bought a Catalina 310 that I do sail on Lake Erie. It has plenty of free board, lots of weight and stability and can handle the 20 kt appaarent winds and the 6 ft seas that are fairly common. The crew still doesn't like it but we would problbly not even venture out in the 22. There are a few 22s that ply the waters where we cruise and on a good day they have a lot of fun. On an iffy day or a day that is likely to bring some building wind and seas they don't or shouldn't venture out. I love both of our boats but the 22 does not belong on Lake Erie.
Captain: I agree with one of the previous responses, i.e., why would you want to take a Catalina 22 and try to make it into a blue water sail boat. If Lake Erie is your desired destination I would really think hard about that. I have a '88 C22 #14479 that I bought new in '88 and sailed on inland water in Central Ohio and trailered to northwestern Lake Michigan for summer cruising - 20 to 25 mile passages with a little out of sight of land. The 22 is there permanently now. Lake Michigan is deep (mostly greater than 100 feet in northern Green Bay) and the waves are friendly. I would never have cruised in the 22 on Lake Erie, especially the western basin. The maximum water depth west of Sandusky is 20-30 feet and the waves are big, close together and come up quickly. In 2001 I bought a Catalina 310 that I do sail on Lake Erie. It has plenty of free board, lots of weight and stability and can handle the 20 kt appaarent winds and the 6 ft seas that are fairly common. The crew still doesn't like it but we would problbly not even venture out in the 22. There are a few 22s that ply the waters where we cruise and on a good day they have a lot of fun. On an iffy day or a day that is likely to bring some building wind and seas they don't or shouldn't venture out. I love both of our boats but the 22 does not belong on Lake Erie.
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