Capsizing a C-22
- Thread starter Michael B
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I doubt it is easy; however, I have not done it. One precaution against it would be to sail with hatches and crib boards closed. Then, if you do roll, the ingress of water into the cabin will be slowed. The C22 has no floatation built into it, so it will sink, as far as I know. Again, I haven't done it.
Have your life preservers on, flare, distress beacon, and other safety equipment available at all times. However, in the event of a sudden event, those things may not be at hand.
The best precaution would be to make an honest estimate of your skill versus the weather. Know your waters.
Andrew
Have your life preservers on, flare, distress beacon, and other safety equipment available at all times. However, in the event of a sudden event, those things may not be at hand.
The best precaution would be to make an honest estimate of your skill versus the weather. Know your waters.
Andrew
A capsize is really only going to happen with the right combination of wind and waves.
If you are on a lake, you are not going to capsize a C-22.
Even in the ocean, it would take some relatively extreme conditions to capsize it.
By itself, the wind might tip you over fairly far, but the farther your boat heels, the less impact the wind has on your sail until eventually the wind stops blowing against the sail and is just blowing along the sail.
If you are on a lake, you are not going to capsize a C-22.
Even in the ocean, it would take some relatively extreme conditions to capsize it.
By itself, the wind might tip you over fairly far, but the farther your boat heels, the less impact the wind has on your sail until eventually the wind stops blowing against the sail and is just blowing along the sail.
Stan's right. It's the waves that will get you, but one thing you must keep in mind is the design of the hull - when over powered, the boat tends to head up into irons, a pretty neat safety feature. I sailed ours here on SF Bay for many years, with only a 110 jib and a single reef in the main, never had an issue. You would have to be doing some serious stupid to capsize a C22.
I once dipped my main in the water in 3 foot seas and a hell of a lot of wind in Vermilion Bay. Of course I hadn't reefed and I couldn't come about into the wind, so I was forced to Jibe. I centered the boom, then jibed...the wind whipped my stern around, the boom hit my son and almost knocked him out, the mast seemed like it was almost touching the water......then it happened.....the boat turned into the wind and righted itself.
The good part of the experience, was I saw how far over a Catalina 22 would go without rolling over.
The good part of the experience, was I saw how far over a Catalina 22 would go without rolling over.
I sailed my 22 on a relatively small lake. The wind has a very nasty habit of gusting and changing direction at the same time. There have been a few time when I was caught off guard and the boat heeled over a lot. I learned over time to reduce sail area before it gets out of hand. I also learned that the boat is a lot more forgiving on a beam reach as opposed to close hauled. A sudden change in wind direction when everything is sheeted in can produce some OMG moments
The good news is, it is hard to lay one down. I sail this boat HARD on some occasions, going out when others have tied down. With one or two able bodied sailors, I'll fly every rag on the boat, just to see if I can wash the windows. Yeah, it'll go way down, but not flat. And yes I know before all the performance sailors jump me about it not being an efficient point of sail layed over like that, but that's not the point. The boat is expendable to me, little more than a toy that I could "eat" if I had to. I just like to see what it can take. And it'll take a LOT.
I do not recommend this type of activity unless you are seriously on your game, but I've seen this done once or twice. On T.V. And read half a book on sailing one time.
But seriously, keep your sheets handy to cut loose, keep the family in P.F.D.'s, and you'll be fine. If I can't hurt it, I will be surprised if you do..
I do not recommend this type of activity unless you are seriously on your game, but I've seen this done once or twice. On T.V. And read half a book on sailing one time.
But seriously, keep your sheets handy to cut loose, keep the family in P.F.D.'s, and you'll be fine. If I can't hurt it, I will be surprised if you do..
It is possible to sink a C 22 under the right conditions. There was a full capsize on lake Michigan a few years ago and it was brought about by sailing with too much sail in heavy wind and wave conditions. The boat dipped the sail into the water and the waves started to sink her. I think that there was a hatch or the companionway boards that were left open. The swing keel closed when it had turned over far enough but it was going under anyway. Most C22s don't have flotation and the swing keel hulls have a hole in the bottom to let the air out if it's capsized.
If the sail is in the water and you have time, you need to free that sail's sheet lines so that it can allow the hull to right itself before it's too late.
I haven't had my 22 even a year yet. When I first went out, like most newbies, I was nervous every time it heeled over past 15 deg or so. I just didn't know where the point of no return was. What helped me immensely was our C22 fleet captain, who took me out one day on the lake. It was blowing 15+ and we had a full main and the genoa up. Nothing reefed. Water up on the deck on the low side. She came right back up when he release the main, or when we rounded up into the wind. He calmly mentioned something like, "Oh, by the way, we are way over powered today, but don't worry, she'll come back up if she goes over too far and spills the air." We've raced in 22+ with 3 - 4 foot waves on the lake with white caps and plenty of spray. Not huge waves like you coastal folks see I know. But it was great to see my boat pushed way over and handle it and still be controlled.
Stan
Stan
Yeah, couple of things I forgot to mention in my haste. The cockpit hatch covers, (lazarette), should always be latched/locked shut. And the companionway covers need "deadbolt" latches on the upper corners, or they will slide/float out.
And yes, the boat can sink. But it would have to be a combination of a few things to make it happen. Knocked down, keeping the sheets fast, big rolling waves, and a bottle of liquor clutched firmly in the hands of the operator. On a lake? Not a chance. And not to resurrect a long debated and tired old post of locking keel pins, but that little keel locking bolt against a 550 lb. keel will do nothing to prevent this. And despite some near National Enquirish internet tales, right alongside "Batboy Terrorizes Chicago", you would be hard pressed to sink, or capsize a C22. The more common causes would be keel cable hose becoming disconnected, holing the hull, (another near impossibility), or run over by a drunk or idiot in a compensation boat..
And yes, the boat can sink. But it would have to be a combination of a few things to make it happen. Knocked down, keeping the sheets fast, big rolling waves, and a bottle of liquor clutched firmly in the hands of the operator. On a lake? Not a chance. And not to resurrect a long debated and tired old post of locking keel pins, but that little keel locking bolt against a 550 lb. keel will do nothing to prevent this. And despite some near National Enquirish internet tales, right alongside "Batboy Terrorizes Chicago", you would be hard pressed to sink, or capsize a C22. The more common causes would be keel cable hose becoming disconnected, holing the hull, (another near impossibility), or run over by a drunk or idiot in a compensation boat..
The capsizing/sinking that I referred to was actually up in Chicago area of Lake Mi. and was supplied by a report from the Coast Guard investigation. I'd look it up but I've done that enough times, it gets really old.
I believe that there is a c22 at the bottom of our sailing lake. Something to do with being out in a storm...drunk or something. People do amazing things when they're drunk boating on our lake.
Now, I'm going to agree that these things don't generally happen but the original poster asks the question: "How easy is it to capsize a C-22?" And to that I'm going to say....it's not hard at all. If you want to capsize the boat,
A) Loosen your hatch boards,
B) winch up the keel and
C) shinny up your mast to the top & hold on.
That should do it. Oh yes, have insurance co. ph. # handy.
Now if one is trying to scuttle your boat without capsizing....plenty of inventive ways for that stunt.
Here's the link to the Michigan capsizing. it's almost 2/3rds down the page so to save time, do a page search for the boat: It was called Moonraker :
http://www.first407.com/node/7
I believe that there is a c22 at the bottom of our sailing lake. Something to do with being out in a storm...drunk or something. People do amazing things when they're drunk boating on our lake.
Now, I'm going to agree that these things don't generally happen but the original poster asks the question: "How easy is it to capsize a C-22?" And to that I'm going to say....it's not hard at all. If you want to capsize the boat,
A) Loosen your hatch boards,
B) winch up the keel and
C) shinny up your mast to the top & hold on.
That should do it. Oh yes, have insurance co. ph. # handy.
Now if one is trying to scuttle your boat without capsizing....plenty of inventive ways for that stunt.
Here's the link to the Michigan capsizing. it's almost 2/3rds down the page so to save time, do a page search for the boat: It was called Moonraker :
http://www.first407.com/node/7
When the boat really lays over hard, and then you round up quickly to bring her back up-- everything inside that was on the starboard side will exchange places with all the stuff on the port side! 
Cushions and those storage covers will fly. Porta potti will find new and interesting positions. Can't find your sandwich? Check under the newly located porta potti.
Stan
Cushions and those storage covers will fly. Porta potti will find new and interesting positions. Can't find your sandwich? Check under the newly located porta potti. Stan
Aw man, I wasn't trying to be contentious Bilbo. I had heard about that incident up there on the lakes, but out of what, 16 thousand boats or something, these occurrences are very rare. Morons can tear up an anvil. And yes, I could flip one in the marina. But it'd be a struggle. I've not digressed to that level of stupidity yet. Yet..
And Stan, that just shows a basic lack of seamanship. Samiches should be kept in ziploc bags. When they are retrieved from the confines of the potti, you can just wipe 'em off on your britches legs, and continue to sail..
And Stan, that just shows a basic lack of seamanship. Samiches should be kept in ziploc bags. When they are retrieved from the confines of the potti, you can just wipe 'em off on your britches legs, and continue to sail..
Naw, no contention. As a matter of fact while I was googlin' up that story, I found an older forum post where you and I had actually been part of an earlier discussion on this issue.
Some questions just keep popping up.
I asked my neighbors if they wanted to sail sometime and they are deathly afraid of sailboats because they "lean over" sometimes.
I also find it kinda morbidly funny how people sink boats. We had some people rent a pontoon boat and then proceed through a causeway opening out into something like 5 ft waves. They didn't get 50 yards before it flipped on them.
britches. I had to read that twice, lol.
My boats potti is loose, held down only by gravoty, and I dont even want to imagine it rolling over. Any thoughts on best way to secure it?
I just read "Confessions of a Long-Distance sailor". (Its free online:
http://arachnoid.com/sailbook/Chapter_1_--_Introduction,_San_Juan_Islands.html )
I got a real laugh out of his anchor stories and stupid boater stories. Lots of boats, not too many with much common sense, intelligence, knowledge, or conscience. I think even an idiot with no common sense could learn most of whats needed. Perhaps the dumber ones among us think their too smart to read, or care? Then you have the high eye que types who are too arrogant to read but have no common sense, and who also don't care. Its a rough world out there.
There are clamps that screw to the floor made just for porta potty's at West Marine and other fine merchants.
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