I am really curious just how stable the h23 is. For me it is real tender to the rub rail then stabalizes. After that I am afraid to try. Anyone know of a knock-down or capsize? If so, what were the conditions? Has anyone put one over far enough to take on water in the cockpit or cabin? Is it possible to knock it down with just wind in the sails and no large waves? (inland lake sailing) I would like to hear people's worst-case scenarios or ones they have heard about. Thanks Ward
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Jon Bastien
Had me scared for a minute...
Whew, with that subject, I thought there was going to be a story about a capsized H23! Ward, I've never seen or heard of a '23 capsizing, but that doesn't mean it's never happened. My thoughts, though, are that it would be very difficult- about 1/3 of the boat's loaded weight is the keel hanging from the bottom of the boat, creating a strong righting moment in a knock-down situation. Personally, I've had mine out in 25 kts of wind under full sail, and didn't go over further than the rub rail. (I know, I was nuts not to reef. Live and learn, and I was learning a LOT that day.) I also took a strong gust associated with a squall line (35kts?) under full sail and still didn't see any water on the deck (Learning, yet again). My (NON-PROFESSIONAL!) opinion is that it would take extremely strong winds combined with waves to capsize this boat... but prudence dictates that I'd have her back in port before I ever saw those conditions. --Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' H25 'Adagio'
Whew, with that subject, I thought there was going to be a story about a capsized H23! Ward, I've never seen or heard of a '23 capsizing, but that doesn't mean it's never happened. My thoughts, though, are that it would be very difficult- about 1/3 of the boat's loaded weight is the keel hanging from the bottom of the boat, creating a strong righting moment in a knock-down situation. Personally, I've had mine out in 25 kts of wind under full sail, and didn't go over further than the rub rail. (I know, I was nuts not to reef. Live and learn, and I was learning a LOT that day.) I also took a strong gust associated with a squall line (35kts?) under full sail and still didn't see any water on the deck (Learning, yet again). My (NON-PROFESSIONAL!) opinion is that it would take extremely strong winds combined with waves to capsize this boat... but prudence dictates that I'd have her back in port before I ever saw those conditions. --Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' H25 'Adagio'
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Greg Stebbins
I 2nd Jon
Ward, I've been knocked over at least once and the 23 just headed up and righted herself and that was with the mast head about 2 feet off the water. Never taken water in the cockpit and that's a good thing as the cockpit drain is not in the excellent catagory (a little slow). I to have NEVER heard of a 23 going down or even getting into serious trouble.
Ward, I've been knocked over at least once and the 23 just headed up and righted herself and that was with the mast head about 2 feet off the water. Never taken water in the cockpit and that's a good thing as the cockpit drain is not in the excellent catagory (a little slow). I to have NEVER heard of a 23 going down or even getting into serious trouble.
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M
Tender it is !
It was the same for me when I bought mine in October, but I sailed all winter minus 2 weeks where I was iced in. Winter winds can be VERY gusty. 5 knots then 20. This winter I'll have a wetsuit. Suggestions: - I added 3-400 lbs of books (cheap/free) of ballast under the seats. Put as much up front as you can get under v-birth. Distribute the weight so the boat stays balanced. You can also balance the engine weight this way. It helped slow the speed of heeling a lot. - adjust the mast rake like Cliff suggests. You may end up with the back stays all the way loose but still connected. Close enough. - put a bungee around rudder/alum housing to keep rudder IN on housing. I think I could dip the mast - be fun to find out !
It was the same for me when I bought mine in October, but I sailed all winter minus 2 weeks where I was iced in. Winter winds can be VERY gusty. 5 knots then 20. This winter I'll have a wetsuit. Suggestions: - I added 3-400 lbs of books (cheap/free) of ballast under the seats. Put as much up front as you can get under v-birth. Distribute the weight so the boat stays balanced. You can also balance the engine weight this way. It helped slow the speed of heeling a lot. - adjust the mast rake like Cliff suggests. You may end up with the back stays all the way loose but still connected. Close enough. - put a bungee around rudder/alum housing to keep rudder IN on housing. I think I could dip the mast - be fun to find out !
The stability of the H23 is legendary, but...
I was also advised by a local H23 owner to secure the cockpit locker when things get rough. Apparently, if the cover opens during a capsize, the boat will downflood rapidly and sink. Since I probably won't be out in conditions like that, I ain't worried. Besides, won't all boats sink if you get a whole lot of water in them real quick? Peter S/V Raven
I was also advised by a local H23 owner to secure the cockpit locker when things get rough. Apparently, if the cover opens during a capsize, the boat will downflood rapidly and sink. Since I probably won't be out in conditions like that, I ain't worried. Besides, won't all boats sink if you get a whole lot of water in them real quick? Peter S/V Raven
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MIke B
capsize
Excellent point , Peter, I do own a snark I used to use as a dingy, to get to my mooring and ,as far as I know, it willnot sink, at least we hope not , , then again it might, Mike ,
Excellent point , Peter, I do own a snark I used to use as a dingy, to get to my mooring and ,as far as I know, it willnot sink, at least we hope not , , then again it might, Mike ,
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Greg Hartgraves
Water in the window
I hate to tell this story, but it may be useful to others if I tell you my dumb stunt. My wife (non-sailor/boat babe) and daughter (6 year old) were sailing on Lake Washington with very light air out of the south and full main/150 genoa. Wind switched to Northerly and began to increase. Great beat up the lake until white caps appeared and boat was overpowered (went 200 yards sideways with no forward progress). Of course I realized it was time to reduce sail too late and decided to drop foresail and main. I didn't release the sheets, but positioned myself astern to start the motor. About the time the motor started, I realized that we were broadside to the wind close hauled. I was on the lea side watching the coaming next to me under water and my wife telling me there was water comming in the window (boat babe disappears into the cabin when things look bad). I quickly threw the motor into full throttle to bring the bow into the wind. I over compensated and we were healed over on the other rail with the motor running full throttle out of the water. This is when I finally came to my senses and released the sheets and everything settle down immediately. This all happened in a matter of 15 or 20 seconds. There were many lessons learned that day the hard way. I love this boat and fortunately my family still likes to sail with me. I've unintentionally challenged the boat and have more confidence in its ability to stay afloat. I think the suggestions to reef the main around 15 mph is right on and after all the boat sails much better at less than 20 degree heel. Greg Hartgraves S/V Paradise
I hate to tell this story, but it may be useful to others if I tell you my dumb stunt. My wife (non-sailor/boat babe) and daughter (6 year old) were sailing on Lake Washington with very light air out of the south and full main/150 genoa. Wind switched to Northerly and began to increase. Great beat up the lake until white caps appeared and boat was overpowered (went 200 yards sideways with no forward progress). Of course I realized it was time to reduce sail too late and decided to drop foresail and main. I didn't release the sheets, but positioned myself astern to start the motor. About the time the motor started, I realized that we were broadside to the wind close hauled. I was on the lea side watching the coaming next to me under water and my wife telling me there was water comming in the window (boat babe disappears into the cabin when things look bad). I quickly threw the motor into full throttle to bring the bow into the wind. I over compensated and we were healed over on the other rail with the motor running full throttle out of the water. This is when I finally came to my senses and released the sheets and everything settle down immediately. This all happened in a matter of 15 or 20 seconds. There were many lessons learned that day the hard way. I love this boat and fortunately my family still likes to sail with me. I've unintentionally challenged the boat and have more confidence in its ability to stay afloat. I think the suggestions to reef the main around 15 mph is right on and after all the boat sails much better at less than 20 degree heel. Greg Hartgraves S/V Paradise
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Ward
You've ALL made me feel a lot better
Gosh! it's good to hear I am not the only one who has done dumb stunts while learning to sail this boat. It is VERY reassuring to know that in spite of foolish moves on our part, the boat is stable enough to stay on it's feet. I am going to print all responses to share with my wife who thinks I don't know what I am doing (she's right but I'm not telling her). This information should help put her at ease on the safety of the boat. Actually, I am still pretty conservative as I am just learning. I don't go out if wind is over 12-15 kts. Thanks everyone for sharing Ward
Gosh! it's good to hear I am not the only one who has done dumb stunts while learning to sail this boat. It is VERY reassuring to know that in spite of foolish moves on our part, the boat is stable enough to stay on it's feet. I am going to print all responses to share with my wife who thinks I don't know what I am doing (she's right but I'm not telling her). This information should help put her at ease on the safety of the boat. Actually, I am still pretty conservative as I am just learning. I don't go out if wind is over 12-15 kts. Thanks everyone for sharing Ward
Yes!!
As you pick up confidence, don't pass up those opportunities to go out when the weather is less than perfect. Tuck in a reef at the dock, and make sure you've got some decent rain gear and hot water/coffee in a thermos. Sailing in wind, spray and rain has its own advantages: a) it's good practice for those times when the weather waits until after you leave the dock before it turns sour(and it will) b) there is a sense of accomplishment from knowing that you can handle your boat with confidence in less than ideal conditions. Anybody can go out on a nice sunny day. c) returning to dock/anchor is sweeter, especially if you've got that hot beverage and you can crash afterwards Just remember to keep it safe and don't get overconfident. The idea is to push the envelope, not rip it!! Have fun. Peter S/V Raven
As you pick up confidence, don't pass up those opportunities to go out when the weather is less than perfect. Tuck in a reef at the dock, and make sure you've got some decent rain gear and hot water/coffee in a thermos. Sailing in wind, spray and rain has its own advantages: a) it's good practice for those times when the weather waits until after you leave the dock before it turns sour(and it will) b) there is a sense of accomplishment from knowing that you can handle your boat with confidence in less than ideal conditions. Anybody can go out on a nice sunny day. c) returning to dock/anchor is sweeter, especially if you've got that hot beverage and you can crash afterwards Just remember to keep it safe and don't get overconfident. The idea is to push the envelope, not rip it!! Have fun. Peter S/V Raven
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