For the Head Mistres, I have tried everything short of replacing all the hoses and the order is so strong I don't want to bring guests aboard. The order is pungent and now is a combination of the various chemicals used to clean the system. Any adivse would be greatly appreciated.
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the sweet smell of success
Hi Perry, I'm sure Peggie will have a more complete answer but we were in the same situation. No matter what we put into the holding tank, the odor came back in a few days and kept getting worse. Turns out the holding tank was fine and Peggie's aerobic bacteria were doing their job. The problem was the sea water intake line was full of little dead creatures that really smelled bad. I disconnected the intake hose at the through-hull (closing it first is highly recommended) and pumped 4 gallons of fresh water through the system. Just stuck the hose in a gallon container and kept repeating the process. It's been 3 months now and no smell whatsoever. While we are at the dock, I leave the hose disconnected and hook it up again when we go cruising for more than a few days. Hope this helps. Jeff and Carol s/v's Twilight and Suzanne
Hi Perry, I'm sure Peggie will have a more complete answer but we were in the same situation. No matter what we put into the holding tank, the odor came back in a few days and kept getting worse. Turns out the holding tank was fine and Peggie's aerobic bacteria were doing their job. The problem was the sea water intake line was full of little dead creatures that really smelled bad. I disconnected the intake hose at the through-hull (closing it first is highly recommended) and pumped 4 gallons of fresh water through the system. Just stuck the hose in a gallon container and kept repeating the process. It's been 3 months now and no smell whatsoever. While we are at the dock, I leave the hose disconnected and hook it up again when we go cruising for more than a few days. Hope this helps. Jeff and Carol s/v's Twilight and Suzanne
Perry, Another Suggestion..
..is just as written by Twilight except that every six months, I remove the intake and pump about a gallon of bleach through the system and let it sit for a couple of hours before rinsing it as indicated. I also change the intake hose every few years. This works if you have a y-valve for OB discharge; definitely don't want to do it if it would wind up in a metallic holding tank! Anyway, this also gets rid of the stuff in the bowl rim. Never had any smell with this treatment, but wasted a lot of time discovering (through Peggy) that the worst odor is often the intake rather than the ouput side of the system.
..is just as written by Twilight except that every six months, I remove the intake and pump about a gallon of bleach through the system and let it sit for a couple of hours before rinsing it as indicated. I also change the intake hose every few years. This works if you have a y-valve for OB discharge; definitely don't want to do it if it would wind up in a metallic holding tank! Anyway, this also gets rid of the stuff in the bowl rim. Never had any smell with this treatment, but wasted a lot of time discovering (through Peggy) that the worst odor is often the intake rather than the ouput side of the system.
"Head" odor isn't always head odor
First of all...Rick, stop pumping bleach through your toilet...it eats the seals and valves in the pump and doesn't do your hoses any good either! I highly recommend our own bio-enzymatic bowl, sump and drain cleaner C.P...but if you don't want to use that, use fresh water laced with a heavy dose of white vinegar. Vinegar not only kills odor, but it will also dissolve urine crystals in the head discharge hose, which bleach cannot do. Now...to your problem. It may BE your hoses...the way to find out: wet a rag in hot water...wring it out and wrap it around your head discharge hose...leave it there till it cools, then take the rag off and smell it (if the odor in the boat is really strong, you may have go out side to distinguish between what's in the air and what's on the rag). If you can smell the same odor on the rag, you need to replace the hoses...if you can't, you don't. Sea water is alive with animal and vegetable life...when it gets left to stagnate in the head intake and the little critters become trapped in the channel in the rim of the bowl, they die, decay...and STINK! A few pumps of the head usually clears it out...but the first few flushes can knock you off your feet. If it doesn't go away with a few flushes, the head may or may not be the source of the odor. The best way to find out: remove the head intake hose from the thru-hull (close the seacock first!!), and stick it in a bucket of water that's liberally laced with either C.P. or white vinegar...pump it through the head. Reconnect the hose, but do NOT re-open the seacock. Instead, flush with cups of water from the sink during this visit to the boat. If the odor goes away and doesn't come back while you're away from the boat this time, you've found the problem. There's a more permanent fix that works on most boats, but not all, in the Reference Library of the Head Mistress forum...an article called something like "Intake Odors." However, it's also highly possible that your head/sanitation system isn't the source of the problem at all. We get calls all the time from people who've torn out most of their sanitation system trying to cure what they thought was "head" odor...when all the really needed to do was clean their bilge and/or sumps. I don't mean just throw in some bilge cleaner and/or bleach (that's not how you'd clean a bathtub, is it?)...but really CLEAN it...and then thoroughly rinse out all the dirty water with lots and lots of clean fresh water. What else is a swamp except stagnant water in a dark warm environment? And swamps stink! Even a little water standing in a bilge or a sump very quickly becomes a "swamp"...a breeding ground for molds fungi and bacteria that can make a boat smell like a swamp, or even a sewer, unless it's cleaned out of there, and fairly regularly. So start looking for the source...you'll find it...and now you know what to do when you do find it.
First of all...Rick, stop pumping bleach through your toilet...it eats the seals and valves in the pump and doesn't do your hoses any good either! I highly recommend our own bio-enzymatic bowl, sump and drain cleaner C.P...but if you don't want to use that, use fresh water laced with a heavy dose of white vinegar. Vinegar not only kills odor, but it will also dissolve urine crystals in the head discharge hose, which bleach cannot do. Now...to your problem. It may BE your hoses...the way to find out: wet a rag in hot water...wring it out and wrap it around your head discharge hose...leave it there till it cools, then take the rag off and smell it (if the odor in the boat is really strong, you may have go out side to distinguish between what's in the air and what's on the rag). If you can smell the same odor on the rag, you need to replace the hoses...if you can't, you don't. Sea water is alive with animal and vegetable life...when it gets left to stagnate in the head intake and the little critters become trapped in the channel in the rim of the bowl, they die, decay...and STINK! A few pumps of the head usually clears it out...but the first few flushes can knock you off your feet. If it doesn't go away with a few flushes, the head may or may not be the source of the odor. The best way to find out: remove the head intake hose from the thru-hull (close the seacock first!!), and stick it in a bucket of water that's liberally laced with either C.P. or white vinegar...pump it through the head. Reconnect the hose, but do NOT re-open the seacock. Instead, flush with cups of water from the sink during this visit to the boat. If the odor goes away and doesn't come back while you're away from the boat this time, you've found the problem. There's a more permanent fix that works on most boats, but not all, in the Reference Library of the Head Mistress forum...an article called something like "Intake Odors." However, it's also highly possible that your head/sanitation system isn't the source of the problem at all. We get calls all the time from people who've torn out most of their sanitation system trying to cure what they thought was "head" odor...when all the really needed to do was clean their bilge and/or sumps. I don't mean just throw in some bilge cleaner and/or bleach (that's not how you'd clean a bathtub, is it?)...but really CLEAN it...and then thoroughly rinse out all the dirty water with lots and lots of clean fresh water. What else is a swamp except stagnant water in a dark warm environment? And swamps stink! Even a little water standing in a bilge or a sump very quickly becomes a "swamp"...a breeding ground for molds fungi and bacteria that can make a boat smell like a swamp, or even a sewer, unless it's cleaned out of there, and fairly regularly. So start looking for the source...you'll find it...and now you know what to do when you do find it.
Busted by Peggie!!..
..for using bleach. It doesn't make sense at all to use something that will eat seals;>) And now, I have taken the last of it off the boat and promise to use C.P. in the future. Peggie, you should know that I had to pick between you and my wife on this one, but when it comes to my head, there can only be one choice.. Rick D.
..for using bleach. It doesn't make sense at all to use something that will eat seals;>) And now, I have taken the last of it off the boat and promise to use C.P. in the future. Peggie, you should know that I had to pick between you and my wife on this one, but when it comes to my head, there can only be one choice.. Rick D.
Take bleach off the boat altogether
Bleach is the most over-used, over-rated product ever used on a boat...supposedly the panacea for all problems related to dirt or odor. In fact, there are few applications on a boat for which bleach (and other related chlorine products like Tilex) don't do more harm than good. Not only does bleach break down all the rubber and neoprene parts in a toilet, it breaks down all the rubber and neoprene parts in a fresh water pump. It may remove mildew stains, but it sun-rots fabrics including vinyl upholstery, sails and headliners...and it's corrosive to anything metal, which makes it poor choice for a lot jobs including bilge "cleaning." About the only think bleach IS good for is an annual fresh water system recommissioning and lightening teak. Take it off the boat...and take it home.
Bleach is the most over-used, over-rated product ever used on a boat...supposedly the panacea for all problems related to dirt or odor. In fact, there are few applications on a boat for which bleach (and other related chlorine products like Tilex) don't do more harm than good. Not only does bleach break down all the rubber and neoprene parts in a toilet, it breaks down all the rubber and neoprene parts in a fresh water pump. It may remove mildew stains, but it sun-rots fabrics including vinyl upholstery, sails and headliners...and it's corrosive to anything metal, which makes it poor choice for a lot jobs including bilge "cleaning." About the only think bleach IS good for is an annual fresh water system recommissioning and lightening teak. Take it off the boat...and take it home.
KO/CP/ H20
Never an odor to be had!!!! Peggy's products are the best!!! We only use fresh water to flush except when cruising.
Never an odor to be had!!!! Peggy's products are the best!!! We only use fresh water to flush except when cruising.
Bleach Question
I agree that the bleach is great for completely rinsing the water system during commissioning. What should be used on a regular basis to keep critters at bay in the water tank? I have been using one-half cap full (small cap off of smallest available bottle of bleach) per 35 gal. refill on the boat. Please enlighten. Is this small amount still too much? Is there a better product for the same (or reasonable) price?
I agree that the bleach is great for completely rinsing the water system during commissioning. What should be used on a regular basis to keep critters at bay in the water tank? I have been using one-half cap full (small cap off of smallest available bottle of bleach) per 35 gal. refill on the boat. Please enlighten. Is this small amount still too much? Is there a better product for the same (or reasonable) price?
Jay, read the article...
...in the Head Mistress Reference Library ( click on "Head Mistress" in the list of forums, then look on the right hand column when you get there) called "Fresh Water Maintenance. " It should answer your questions. If it doesn't, I'll be glad to.
...in the Head Mistress Reference Library ( click on "Head Mistress" in the list of forums, then look on the right hand column when you get there) called "Fresh Water Maintenance. " It should answer your questions. If it doesn't, I'll be glad to.
If H2O tank is properly recommissioned each year
And--if you're careful never to fill your tank till all the "old" water that's been standing in your hose and the dock supply line has been completely flushed out--It should not be necessary to add anything with each fill. In fact, you're only damaging the diaphragm, valve, and other rubber & neoprene parts in you water pump by adding a little bleach...and accomplishing nothing, 'cuz first of all, chlorine evaporates in about 24 hours (although its corrosive properties remain...and anything less than it would take to make your water taste and smell like an over-chlorinated swimming pool isn't enough to do any good anyway. If recommissioning once or twice a year according to the directions in "Fresh Water Maintenance" doesn't give you onboard water that smells and tastes no worse than what comes out of a faucet on land--or if what comes out of a faucet on land in your area isn't "sweet" enough to suit you, a water filter is the best answer. But a filter isn't an "install it and forget about it" device either...they need regular cleaning and/or replacement.
And--if you're careful never to fill your tank till all the "old" water that's been standing in your hose and the dock supply line has been completely flushed out--It should not be necessary to add anything with each fill. In fact, you're only damaging the diaphragm, valve, and other rubber & neoprene parts in you water pump by adding a little bleach...and accomplishing nothing, 'cuz first of all, chlorine evaporates in about 24 hours (although its corrosive properties remain...and anything less than it would take to make your water taste and smell like an over-chlorinated swimming pool isn't enough to do any good anyway. If recommissioning once or twice a year according to the directions in "Fresh Water Maintenance" doesn't give you onboard water that smells and tastes no worse than what comes out of a faucet on land--or if what comes out of a faucet on land in your area isn't "sweet" enough to suit you, a water filter is the best answer. But a filter isn't an "install it and forget about it" device either...they need regular cleaning and/or replacement.
What about standing water in a tank?
Peggie, I read the article and that's what led to the question. I definitely practice the "run the water for 15 minutes before filling the tank" procedure and make sure I clean all faucets and sink areas with every use. The article stated that regular use of the system keeps water going through it and is enough to keep it clean, but I am still concerned about water standing in the tank for a week or two. I do not use all 35 gallons every time I'm on the boat, but filling it 5-6 gallons at a time, every time I go to the boat is an obvious pain. Am I being too paranoid? I use up the 35 gallons in roughly 2 weekends.
Peggie, I read the article and that's what led to the question. I definitely practice the "run the water for 15 minutes before filling the tank" procedure and make sure I clean all faucets and sink areas with every use. The article stated that regular use of the system keeps water going through it and is enough to keep it clean, but I am still concerned about water standing in the tank for a week or two. I do not use all 35 gallons every time I'm on the boat, but filling it 5-6 gallons at a time, every time I go to the boat is an obvious pain. Am I being too paranoid? I use up the 35 gallons in roughly 2 weekends.
You're ok with that kind of use, Jay
Remember...the tank isn't isn't where most of the problem exists...it's in the plumbing...and you're using your plumbing every weekend. And btw, keep your tanks full...the critters like warm DAMP places--the tank walls above the surface of the water are more vulnerable than the water itself. Algae can't grow in a water tank...algae needs light. So top off your tanks before you leave the boat if you know you're gonna be away from it for an extended period to protect the water in the tank from becoming contaminated by critters that could grow on the tank walls above the surface if you leave the level low. It's nothing to get anal about...but unfortunately--like everything else on a boat--there's nothing you can do to avoid doing SOME periodic maintenance. When the water starts smelling a bit foul, it's time to recommission the system...till then, fill it with water only and use the water...don't let it sit for months.
Remember...the tank isn't isn't where most of the problem exists...it's in the plumbing...and you're using your plumbing every weekend. And btw, keep your tanks full...the critters like warm DAMP places--the tank walls above the surface of the water are more vulnerable than the water itself. Algae can't grow in a water tank...algae needs light. So top off your tanks before you leave the boat if you know you're gonna be away from it for an extended period to protect the water in the tank from becoming contaminated by critters that could grow on the tank walls above the surface if you leave the level low. It's nothing to get anal about...but unfortunately--like everything else on a boat--there's nothing you can do to avoid doing SOME periodic maintenance. When the water starts smelling a bit foul, it's time to recommission the system...till then, fill it with water only and use the water...don't let it sit for months.
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