Cabin Top Winches

[jorgefife]

I know I asked a similar question before, but that was how to bed the 2 winches; that I have done, by filling in the old holes with epoxy to a mayo consistency, and then proceeding with 4200
That's done, I did it just right
Now my question:
On the cabin top I have a winch (broken self tailer) which I want to remove, and install 2 matching winches on each side of the cabin top, just as you go in; do I put bolts all the way though, or does that circle have a kind of hard area that will allow me to simply screw the bolts in?
Of course I will have to close the existing holes, but do I go all the way through?
Should I use large washers, or use a teak plate
I don't remember who, but someone sent me pictures once, but for the life of me cannot remember who
I hop someone reads this
As for the other 2 rectangular areas, next to the mast, I presume it is the same, on those 2 spaces I intend using turning blocks, or maybe organizers
Last question: I also want to install a rope clutch next to the winch mentioned above; same story?
If you are not inclined to repply, please read my sob story under :Hatch Knobs", and maybe that will move you to once again help
Enjoy the day, and good health to all
Jorge

 

[sandpiper10471]

My H33 also had the two raised areas. From recoring the deck, I discovered the core of the deck was balsa but the raised areas have plywood added on top of the balsa sandwich. I added organizers and line stoppers wherever convenient and the lack of plywood did not lead to any problems. I through bolted everything but because the inside liner is suspended, I drilled 1" access holes in it to get at the nuts and washers.

 

[dwgifford]

I too am doing research on adding a winch to my salon roof. I have fit the winch to the raised pad, drilled down 3/4", and tapped the holes 1/4-20. The winch base was fit and is really secure but once I am sure that the winch is exactily where I want it, I will remove it, add West System 10 epoxy to the entire base, including screw holes, and secure it back in place. Clean up the residual epoxy, let dry and I should be left with a well fitted and secure winch. I'll let you know how it works.

 

[jorgefife]

Thank you dwgiffordWould love to see some pics of the interior of your boat!!!

 

[jorgefife]

dwgifford
Did you evr do the winches on the salon top?
How did they come?
When you can, please send some photos of the interior
Thanks
Jorge

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

Mounting winches to deck/coachroof

The ONLY way to mount these is with through-bolts. A winch in use is constantly under shear load-- the pull of the line wants to shear off the bolts and the winch would then fly forwards towards the sail or the spar. There is also usually a small tensile load-- the winch might want to go upwards as well. Sheet-metal/self-tapping screws (all threads) and wood screws (having a shank) are not made for shear loads; they are made for tensile loads. Only a machine screw (mostly thread) or a bolt (mostly shank) will suffice for this.

There is a lot of debate about whether or not to bed the backing plates to the underside of the coachroof for hardware. Theoretically you should have the hardware bedded from the top to keep water out. I say, what can it hurt? --and bedding the backing plates in 5200 from underside is only going to add stiffness to that region of the deck (especially for lifelines stanchions!) AND provide a thicker stratum for resisting the shear load (the machine screws' shanks will get to lean on something thicker, spreading their load over a larger area). Non-bedded backing plates would not help the shear load; and this sort of thing is what 5200 excels at.

I am NOT a fan of bedding winches down with 4200 or 5200. I would prefer a relatively soft (40 to 80-durometer) rubber gasket, cut slightly bigger than the diameter of the winch's base, and torquing the mounting bolts up just enough to dent it. (This is how my Whale through-deck pump is mounted and that doesn't leak. Same with the toilet. I'm sort of sold on rubber gaskets for replaceable things now.)

And I am NOT a fan of silicone AT ALL. Silicone requires constant compression to work as a gasket. The usual working back-and-forth of a winch in alternating between its shear load and its relaxed state will mean you've got to constantly keep the bolts tightened. Silicone WILL NOT adhere to anything-- it is NOT an adhesive and provides NO strength. It is merely a space-filler. Don't expect it to hold out water forever nor to hold anything down.

Don't be afraid to make the backing plates large either. Only weight considerations should restrain you. I've seen many fastidious people making exact-fit backing plates, tracing the piece of hardware onto plywood, cutting it out like a jigsaw piece, etc. There is no point to that. A Lewmar 6 or 8 winch (as on my boat), about 4" in diameter, can have a 6"- or 8"-diameter backing plate. And the exact shape of it doesn't matter-- make it fit the available space.

I have some backing plates of G10 impregnated fiberglass. It is expensive and kills every so-called sharpened tool you use on it. (I do not exaggerate. You WILL need new spade bitts.) I also have plywood I saturated with WEST epoxy and stuck on with 5200. In fact my Forespar Marelon seacocks are mounted through the hull on 3/8" plywood backing plates... and it's not even 'marine' plywood, just whatever I got out of the scrap bins at CY. The epoxy and 5200 make it work. Do it right and don't worry about a bit of overkill.

 

[dwgifford]

cabin top winch

I did get a winch, Lewmar #10, mounted on the raised pad on my starboard salon roof.
I agree that the best way would be to thru-bolt the winch bolts but I chose another way.
Like I posted before, I drilled and tapped the raised portion as far as possible without going thru the roof, inserted nutserts for the proper winch bolts, and then epoxied them into the holes.
I then added a 3/4" piece of starboard shaped to fit, and routered some groves in the bottom, and fastened it all together with West System 10 epoxy. Then the winch was threaded thru this and using Locktite blue thread locker my system is complete. This also helped to align my main halyard past a vent another owner installed thru my salon roof.
Although I will not be competing in any races and will continue to reef "early" I believe my arrangement will perform to my needs.
I am now doing the research into "lazy jack" systems and a new mainsail track and I believe I will be able to single hand my boat from the cockpit and have the ability to douse the main withoug getting up on the roof in rough seas.
Good luck and good sailing.

 

[jorgefife]

Dear dwgifford,
I saw your posting, seems like a very good idea
I eventually installed 2 winches: strange enough, the starboard side had wood, steel, FG when I drilled, but not the port side: it went through the roof.
But I will install a plate of stainless on the roof, to make it look nice
This last week, a day before 4th. July, the tide was so high that my boat was almost at street level
Far too much water and waves, got scared, and besides my friend, who has a similar H33, was away
I was tempted to go on my own, but reason ( ?) prevailed and I stayed put
Will let you know when I finally get my sailing wings!
Regards to all
Good to hear from you Ed; I hope all goes well with you
I will think of something silly to ask just to see you repply
And Sam Lust: I got a panel for you, I hope it is adequate; will send you some pictures (hope you see this posting)