Does anyone know how and where the cabin top liner on the H-33 is attached to the deck? Obviously it becomes part of the structure around the hatches, companionway, portlights and mast step. I have often thought that if the liner were replaced by a light, removable material such as quarter inch marine ply, one would save a lot of weight and be able to inspect for deck leaks. Is there anything structural about the liner or is it merely cosmetic?
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Big job
Most likely, the liner is bonded to the deck with polyester resin, and the bulkheads are fit into slots in the liner. The liner will not be easy to remove, and after cutting it off, you will have to tab the bulkheads into place. I have heard of people removing headliners, but I would not approach this task lightly. It is major recontruction. There is an ongoing thread at the CWBB about headliners, and their putative savings and problems. Look for the thread "creaky boat."
Most likely, the liner is bonded to the deck with polyester resin, and the bulkheads are fit into slots in the liner. The liner will not be easy to remove, and after cutting it off, you will have to tab the bulkheads into place. I have heard of people removing headliners, but I would not approach this task lightly. It is major recontruction. There is an ongoing thread at the CWBB about headliners, and their putative savings and problems. Look for the thread "creaky boat."
Are H33 Decks balsa Cored
DOes anyone know if the area between the deck and cabin headliner in a 1980 H33 is balsa cored? I was wondering, as some spots, while not exactly spongy (I know what that feels like from a previous boat), seem somewhat less solid than other parts -
DOes anyone know if the area between the deck and cabin headliner in a 1980 H33 is balsa cored? I was wondering, as some spots, while not exactly spongy (I know what that feels like from a previous boat), seem somewhat less solid than other parts -
No bulsa near rails
Last year I installed 4-foot tracks for my genoa sheets. I had to drill through the deck, then found air, then through the headliner. The amount of air space ranged from 0 to 1 inch or so. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
Last year I installed 4-foot tracks for my genoa sheets. I had to drill through the deck, then found air, then through the headliner. The amount of air space ranged from 0 to 1 inch or so. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
A Bohart type question...
and maybe one for the Hunter people. I cut a small hole in the headliner of my 1979 H37C to look for some wiring. There was less than 1/2 inch between the liner and cabin top, and only air. Since the 12V lamp wiring runs throughout the boat in that space I doubt there is any "core" or insulation. We Cherubini owners need to buy an old derelict, cut it up, and post the findings here. Which magazine was it that had the photos of a custom cruiser with removable headliner panels? What an idea!
and maybe one for the Hunter people. I cut a small hole in the headliner of my 1979 H37C to look for some wiring. There was less than 1/2 inch between the liner and cabin top, and only air. Since the 12V lamp wiring runs throughout the boat in that space I doubt there is any "core" or insulation. We Cherubini owners need to buy an old derelict, cut it up, and post the findings here. Which magazine was it that had the photos of a custom cruiser with removable headliner panels? What an idea!
been in there_ several times
I found a combination of constructions in the top of a 1976 Hunter 30. It seemed to range from no core to some balsa. Plywood was used at areas where compresive strength was needed, (like hand rails, cleats and winches). Large open areas seem to be Balsa-- (Likely to save weight) and areas of complex curves or small cross sections (like the forward hatch arae ) was completely void of any core.
I found a combination of constructions in the top of a 1976 Hunter 30. It seemed to range from no core to some balsa. Plywood was used at areas where compresive strength was needed, (like hand rails, cleats and winches). Large open areas seem to be Balsa-- (Likely to save weight) and areas of complex curves or small cross sections (like the forward hatch arae ) was completely void of any core.
But Terry, in those areas...
that are cored, isn't that a sandwich with the headliner below that? I picture the balsa-cored cabin top as: ------------------- XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <== balsa ------------------- (===air===) ------------------- <== headliner With the -----'s being the f/g.
that are cored, isn't that a sandwich with the headliner below that? I picture the balsa-cored cabin top as: ------------------- XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <== balsa ------------------- (===air===) ------------------- <== headliner With the -----'s being the f/g.
solid___
ed_ where it was cored - it was solid--almost like the top was molded upside down and the core dropped in then the linner layed on the core. We know the liner had to be made in a mold so the i would expect the following-- they laid the top deck gel coat in a mold, laid up the fiberglass and then added the wiring and core materials using resin to hold the core materials where they wanted them to stay -- Some places i found voids in the core material -- 4-5 inches wide and resin slooped into it so i would expect they laid a lot of resin on the core and wiring - then slapped the liner down - using the resin as an adheasive. What led to this great investigation was that the hatch over the saloon was shot and when i was replacing it I removed the existing frame- OH WOW- wet balsa-- like it was never sealed with anything. I started to dig and this went aft about 2 feet -- then wet plywood- what i thought was slightly spongy deck was a total mess- the top is nominally 1/2 fiberglass depth varied greatly through this area - some places strong hard 3/4" and other places as shallow as 1/4"- (This is why the deck feels soo strange on some of these boats like it has a void here and there) What the old sailor did -- I drilled some 2" holes and dug out all the bad wood- then i closed them up with glass and resin- using vm-27 to finish surface-- then after I was fairly sealed up -- I shot in high density urethane foam-- (sorta scarry -- the inner liner gets REAL hot --) Water Hose is good optional equipment during this process. Then I sealed it all up with resin and reworked the non skid-- eventually i even put the new hatch in-
I am a big guy and can walk all over the top deck and feel solid under foot - so it musta been a good plan The Sole of the cockpit is a different animal -- been there too- it is a solid plywood core- Looks like they dropped it in and then glassed it with about a 1/2" leaving the inside surface rough as you see it above the engine- here they did not have to deal with the insertion of a liner like in the cabin areas. The Hull is glass all over - no core no place. as i said -- been there terry
ed_ where it was cored - it was solid--almost like the top was molded upside down and the core dropped in then the linner layed on the core. We know the liner had to be made in a mold so the i would expect the following-- they laid the top deck gel coat in a mold, laid up the fiberglass and then added the wiring and core materials using resin to hold the core materials where they wanted them to stay -- Some places i found voids in the core material -- 4-5 inches wide and resin slooped into it so i would expect they laid a lot of resin on the core and wiring - then slapped the liner down - using the resin as an adheasive. What led to this great investigation was that the hatch over the saloon was shot and when i was replacing it I removed the existing frame- OH WOW- wet balsa-- like it was never sealed with anything. I started to dig and this went aft about 2 feet -- then wet plywood- what i thought was slightly spongy deck was a total mess- the top is nominally 1/2 fiberglass depth varied greatly through this area - some places strong hard 3/4" and other places as shallow as 1/4"- (This is why the deck feels soo strange on some of these boats like it has a void here and there) What the old sailor did -- I drilled some 2" holes and dug out all the bad wood- then i closed them up with glass and resin- using vm-27 to finish surface-- then after I was fairly sealed up -- I shot in high density urethane foam-- (sorta scarry -- the inner liner gets REAL hot --) Water Hose is good optional equipment during this process. Then I sealed it all up with resin and reworked the non skid-- eventually i even put the new hatch in-
I am a big guy and can walk all over the top deck and feel solid under foot - so it musta been a good plan The Sole of the cockpit is a different animal -- been there too- it is a solid plywood core- Looks like they dropped it in and then glassed it with about a 1/2" leaving the inside surface rough as you see it above the engine- here they did not have to deal with the insertion of a liner like in the cabin areas. The Hull is glass all over - no core no place. as i said -- been there terryI think You're nuts!!!
You got to be kidding, If you have deck delamination, buy yourself a small rubber mallet and go on deck and start tapping,. this method is used by every Aircraft and boat mfr, to localize the area of delamination, and to remove a fiberglass headliner which can be from 1/4" to 1'8" thick, with plywood ??? oh yea, that's a brainer, that fiberglass liner is PART of your structure, and what's going to happen to your bulkheads, if that headliner is a problem, sell the boat.
You got to be kidding, If you have deck delamination, buy yourself a small rubber mallet and go on deck and start tapping,. this method is used by every Aircraft and boat mfr, to localize the area of delamination, and to remove a fiberglass headliner which can be from 1/4" to 1'8" thick, with plywood ??? oh yea, that's a brainer, that fiberglass liner is PART of your structure, and what's going to happen to your bulkheads, if that headliner is a problem, sell the boat.
To Greg, from tom.m
Greg, I was a designer, for Grumman corp, prior to the buy in with Northope, and then Martin marietta, I worked on the Brittish air bus, the Boeing 777, the X29 and the F14, I took an early retirement, in 93, and sailed by boat to the keys.
Greg, I was a designer, for Grumman corp, prior to the buy in with Northope, and then Martin marietta, I worked on the Brittish air bus, the Boeing 777, the X29 and the F14, I took an early retirement, in 93, and sailed by boat to the keys.
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