Well, I've read almost every post/archive on HOW about cabin heaters and didn't see what I was looking for, but, of course, learned a lot about heaters. Here's the situation: I need to be able to stay a weekend on the hook occassionally in winter, but it's not so cold that I would/could justify the cost and space of the diesel, ducted, smokestack systems. I looked around for some alternatives and found one system I considered small enough and powerful enough. Here's the issue. The system runs on propane and although they say it's great for RVs and boats, I'm not a gas expert and would like to know if there are any health hazards associated with having a propane heater completely inside the boat. No smokestack to exit fumes. Obviously, many stoves/ovens are propane, but they may not be used for 6-8 hours at a time. Would a little crack in the companion hatch provide enough venting (as heat rises) or is that not necessary? The product I found is the Zodi Hot Vent system at http://www.zodi.com/2000/files/hotvent/hotvent.html and for under $300 looks like the most cost-effective way to go. Anybody used one of these? Any comments/suggestions? I'm looking at the Hot Vent EP with external power source due to size and requirements. Any suggestions on permanent installation on a H31? (Propane bottle would not be stowed onbard.)
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I'm worried!
I am not a heating expert, however, propane is a volatile fuel at best. But any fuel that burns uses oxygen and produces water vapor. So you are going to deplete the oxygen level in the boat and produce condensation. My biggest concern is the oxygen level. I have had friends who lost their lives because of a burning B-B-Q on deck. It used up all the oxygen in their boat. Even leaving a hatch open may not be enough. You could get oxygen and propane sniffers, that might help. I'm just nervous about you using a heater that isn't vented. Les
I am not a heating expert, however, propane is a volatile fuel at best. But any fuel that burns uses oxygen and produces water vapor. So you are going to deplete the oxygen level in the boat and produce condensation. My biggest concern is the oxygen level. I have had friends who lost their lives because of a burning B-B-Q on deck. It used up all the oxygen in their boat. Even leaving a hatch open may not be enough. You could get oxygen and propane sniffers, that might help. I'm just nervous about you using a heater that isn't vented. Les
other thoughts
If you just need to take the chill off or the dampness out, you might consider just burning your alcohol stove down low. Or use a candle lantern or similar tent camping heater. In any case, I'd be sure there is cross ventilation from wherever you are sleeping.
If you just need to take the chill off or the dampness out, you might consider just burning your alcohol stove down low. Or use a candle lantern or similar tent camping heater. In any case, I'd be sure there is cross ventilation from wherever you are sleeping.
A little closer look ................
Jay, If you take a look at the unit again, you will see that the combustor and the propane tank are OUTSIDE of the RV, tent, boat cabin, or what have you and the four foot hose directs the hot (fresh)air into the occupied space. The stainless steel heat exchanger is what protects you from the products of combustion. On the surface of it, looks like a pretty good unit ......... my only concern might be the electrical consumption for the fan. Reagards, s/v Island Hunter
Jay, If you take a look at the unit again, you will see that the combustor and the propane tank are OUTSIDE of the RV, tent, boat cabin, or what have you and the four foot hose directs the hot (fresh)air into the occupied space. The stainless steel heat exchanger is what protects you from the products of combustion. On the surface of it, looks like a pretty good unit ......... my only concern might be the electrical consumption for the fan. Reagards, s/v Island Hunter
Good Points
Mike: Suggestions on specific "camping heaters"? Last time I went camping I used hot coals in aluminum foil for a bunk heater; probably not a good idea on a boat?? Les/Ralph: I called the company and they said it was actually designed to hang from a 1" rail (such as a luggage rack on an RV) with hose through a window. I also found another corporate penny-pincher environment: the cables with clips are 3' long. (I know *I* always tie a spare battery to the luggage rack!???) An engineer said they could be lengthened as desired with appropriate increase in wire gauge. No news on current draw yet, they will call back. So, now another question. If I hung this thing under the boom (just above the cockpit sole) and put the hose in through a specially made-for-this-only companion board (or cockpit portlight), do you think this might cause any problems? (I would definitely use the accessory pad and appropriate rigging to keep the unit from swaying horribly and banging on the cockpit seats. OR I could hang it off the front of the cup holder on the cockpit table? Any thoughts there?
Mike: Suggestions on specific "camping heaters"? Last time I went camping I used hot coals in aluminum foil for a bunk heater; probably not a good idea on a boat?? Les/Ralph: I called the company and they said it was actually designed to hang from a 1" rail (such as a luggage rack on an RV) with hose through a window. I also found another corporate penny-pincher environment: the cables with clips are 3' long. (I know *I* always tie a spare battery to the luggage rack!???) An engineer said they could be lengthened as desired with appropriate increase in wire gauge. No news on current draw yet, they will call back. So, now another question. If I hung this thing under the boom (just above the cockpit sole) and put the hose in through a specially made-for-this-only companion board (or cockpit portlight), do you think this might cause any problems? (I would definitely use the accessory pad and appropriate rigging to keep the unit from swaying horribly and banging on the cockpit seats. OR I could hang it off the front of the cup holder on the cockpit table? Any thoughts there?
cabin heating
I have gotten by using the alcohol stove covered by a clay flower pot. This will keep the chill off but you will neeed to ventilate and it does throw off water vapor. You can buy a lot of fuel for the cost of a heater. I would not go to sleep using the stove but a good sleeping bag will keep you warm at night and the stove when awake. I is the transition period that keeps you moving in the morning.
I have gotten by using the alcohol stove covered by a clay flower pot. This will keep the chill off but you will neeed to ventilate and it does throw off water vapor. You can buy a lot of fuel for the cost of a heater. I would not go to sleep using the stove but a good sleeping bag will keep you warm at night and the stove when awake. I is the transition period that keeps you moving in the morning.
Unvented Heaters Not so good
Dear Jay, I have been in Propane stuff for 18 years or so and people always want to do what you are asking. Not so good, you realy want a vented heater.Propane produces 9th's of a gal. of water for every 1gal of propane you burn. A gal. of propane has 93,000 BTU's so if you don't vent a heater the water can build up fast. So let's say you have a 45,000 BTU heater thats a 1/2 gal. of water an hour. Force - 10 has a heater I have seen that is vented and it looked pretty good. I am not sure if it had a O.D.S.sensor in it or not. You might ask when looking for a heater if it has the O.D.S. that helps take the fear out of the lack of oxygen, for it should shut the heater off if oxygen becomes to low. Put the Propane tank outside for sure. I made a white plastic box with top out the back of my 26,' I think it look's ok. Go for the propane system , put a gas alarm down low to make you feel a little more safe. Good Luck .
Dear Jay, I have been in Propane stuff for 18 years or so and people always want to do what you are asking. Not so good, you realy want a vented heater.Propane produces 9th's of a gal. of water for every 1gal of propane you burn. A gal. of propane has 93,000 BTU's so if you don't vent a heater the water can build up fast. So let's say you have a 45,000 BTU heater thats a 1/2 gal. of water an hour. Force - 10 has a heater I have seen that is vented and it looked pretty good. I am not sure if it had a O.D.S.sensor in it or not. You might ask when looking for a heater if it has the O.D.S. that helps take the fear out of the lack of oxygen, for it should shut the heater off if oxygen becomes to low. Put the Propane tank outside for sure. I made a white plastic box with top out the back of my 26,' I think it look's ok. Go for the propane system , put a gas alarm down low to make you feel a little more safe. Good Luck .
Y'all missed the obvious
Simply bring along a portable sleeping bag warmer of the two legged variety. Be careful sometimes they are hard to get rip of and the maintenance costs can be astronomical. I have even heard of some guys who ended up selling their boats because of them.
Simply bring along a portable sleeping bag warmer of the two legged variety. Be careful sometimes they are hard to get rip of and the maintenance costs can be astronomical. I have even heard of some guys who ended up selling their boats because of them.
Trawler Lamp Inexpensive
For the first few years we used a Den Haan trawler lamp with a round wick. It really helped to knock the chill off and was even useful for drying the kitchen towel. They put out a fair amount of light as far as kerosene lanterns go but only marginal for reading. To get more light I used regular "odorless" kerosene but it is suspected the fumes leave a slight film on the inside of the cabin, easily cleaned with alcohol however. The film may also come from other sources such as the engine or possible just static attraction to dirt particles. For something less expensive than forced air or hot water but more expensive than the trawler lamp I would high recommend a bulkhead diesel heater made by a firm near Vancouver, Canada. I don't remember the name of it but it's unique feature was it had an outside air supply tube which I haven't seen on any other heater. It has a see-thru window to watch the flame and uses no power except to perhaps a small electric fan one might want to place over the heater. I think they run in the high $600 range. The real plus with this particular heater is it will still run in a hurricane where as other types can blow out.
For the first few years we used a Den Haan trawler lamp with a round wick. It really helped to knock the chill off and was even useful for drying the kitchen towel. They put out a fair amount of light as far as kerosene lanterns go but only marginal for reading. To get more light I used regular "odorless" kerosene but it is suspected the fumes leave a slight film on the inside of the cabin, easily cleaned with alcohol however. The film may also come from other sources such as the engine or possible just static attraction to dirt particles. For something less expensive than forced air or hot water but more expensive than the trawler lamp I would high recommend a bulkhead diesel heater made by a firm near Vancouver, Canada. I don't remember the name of it but it's unique feature was it had an outside air supply tube which I haven't seen on any other heater. It has a see-thru window to watch the flame and uses no power except to perhaps a small electric fan one might want to place over the heater. I think they run in the high $600 range. The real plus with this particular heater is it will still run in a hurricane where as other types can blow out.
Oil Lamps
We have always used oil lamps to knock off a chill. 2 or 3 strategically placed provide ample warmth on a cool evening. Use smokeless oil and never leave them unattended or on when you go to bed. And...keep a comforter nearby.
We have always used oil lamps to knock off a chill. 2 or 3 strategically placed provide ample warmth on a cool evening. Use smokeless oil and never leave them unattended or on when you go to bed. And...keep a comforter nearby.
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