Weekend sailing in Maine. Freezing my pants off. I currently have an old Shipmate kerosene heater that is a major PITA. ( hard to start, smokes, goes out, pressure pump is junk, burner needs r/b ) I am looking at Dickinson diesel and propane units. The diesel manual indicates an ignition and warm up period of 30 minutes to come up to high temp. Also installation and cleaning/maintenance is excessive. The propane units are easier to install (propane is already used in the galley), less maintenance, easy to light, and comes up to operating temps instantly. Recommendations on the fuel choice and/or other units I might consider are needed. Thanks
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Force 10
As anyone who reads these forums know, I'm an advocate of propane as a possible heating source and since you already have propane aboard, a bulkhead-mounted Force 10 propane heater might provide an expeditious solution for you. They are very well-made, efficient units. If you add the Force 10, then a word of caution might be to ensure a proper installation of the propane line leading to your new heater. Assuming your propane system has all the requisite and reasonable safety systems already installed, it's adviseable from a safety standpoint, to install a manifold and run single, one-piece lines to your stove and to your heater with each device being supplied by its own line. Since it may be a good run from your manifold to your heater, I would also recommend securing your lines along the hull using grommeted mounts so the lines cannot be damaged by equipment being thrown in lockers or chafing thus resulting in leaks. Good luck with your project.
As anyone who reads these forums know, I'm an advocate of propane as a possible heating source and since you already have propane aboard, a bulkhead-mounted Force 10 propane heater might provide an expeditious solution for you. They are very well-made, efficient units. If you add the Force 10, then a word of caution might be to ensure a proper installation of the propane line leading to your new heater. Assuming your propane system has all the requisite and reasonable safety systems already installed, it's adviseable from a safety standpoint, to install a manifold and run single, one-piece lines to your stove and to your heater with each device being supplied by its own line. Since it may be a good run from your manifold to your heater, I would also recommend securing your lines along the hull using grommeted mounts so the lines cannot be damaged by equipment being thrown in lockers or chafing thus resulting in leaks. Good luck with your project.
How about alcohol?
About a month ago, we spent the night in a Staten Island, NY sheltered harbor. I filled the alcohol heater about half full, and at a very low flame, it kept the boat comfortable for about 6 hours. The nice things about alcohol are it's: easy to start, smokeless, ordorless, clean burning, lighter than air, and readily available, plus it can be used medicinally. ;^)
About a month ago, we spent the night in a Staten Island, NY sheltered harbor. I filled the alcohol heater about half full, and at a very low flame, it kept the boat comfortable for about 6 hours. The nice things about alcohol are it's: easy to start, smokeless, ordorless, clean burning, lighter than air, and readily available, plus it can be used medicinally. ;^)
Forget alcohol
We had an Origo alcohol heater for several years. Heated alright, but left everything dripping with moisture. It could be warm but real clammy. And boat alcohol cannot be used for "medicinal purposes." It's denatured. It is also very, very expensive. We have a Dickinson vented to the outside solid fuel heater in which we burn just about anything but mostly anthracite coal and genuine charcoal. Anything but charcoal briquettes, which generate more ash that the original volume. We are very happy with it's cheerful glow and cozy dry heat but it does take a lot of tending. In a Maine situation where you might want heat 24 hours I think the diesel heater makes the most sense despite its warmup time. It would be the cheaper of several alternbatives but not as cheap as the solid fuel and would generate lots of BTUs. You could always go to an Espar central heat setup.
We had an Origo alcohol heater for several years. Heated alright, but left everything dripping with moisture. It could be warm but real clammy. And boat alcohol cannot be used for "medicinal purposes." It's denatured. It is also very, very expensive. We have a Dickinson vented to the outside solid fuel heater in which we burn just about anything but mostly anthracite coal and genuine charcoal. Anything but charcoal briquettes, which generate more ash that the original volume. We are very happy with it's cheerful glow and cozy dry heat but it does take a lot of tending. In a Maine situation where you might want heat 24 hours I think the diesel heater makes the most sense despite its warmup time. It would be the cheaper of several alternbatives but not as cheap as the solid fuel and would generate lots of BTUs. You could always go to an Espar central heat setup.
Attachments
Another view
Hope I am not hogging bandwidth, but here is another earlier view of the solid fuel heater before we installed the forced draft blower.
Hope I am not hogging bandwidth, but here is another earlier view of the solid fuel heater before we installed the forced draft blower.
Heating
The only choice is a diesel warm air heater. Safe, cheap to run, warm instantly ( well about 1 minute), no water vapour produced, timer, thermostat....... (I don't sell em. BTW!) Here in Europe Eberspacher are no. 1 by far. The only drawback is quite a few amps on startup. Stop shivering and get one! Good luck
The only choice is a diesel warm air heater. Safe, cheap to run, warm instantly ( well about 1 minute), no water vapour produced, timer, thermostat....... (I don't sell em. BTW!) Here in Europe Eberspacher are no. 1 by far. The only drawback is quite a few amps on startup. Stop shivering and get one! Good luck
Don't go with a force 10 LP
Andy, Let me know what you decide on as I would like to check it out. I'm in the same boat as you and I know one thing, I'll never buy a force 10 propane unit again. We had one in our last boat and it was worse having it on than off. Unless you wan't a rain forest on the inside of your boat make sure if you go with propane it is a sealed combustion unit so the moisture in the lp can't soak your cabin. I like the idea of diesel but I'm concerned about diesel odor and the possibility of soot on the deck which will permanently stain the fiberglass. How clean do the diesel heaters run? Good luck and I hope to see you out sailing this weekend. I plan on an over night Saturday....
Andy, Let me know what you decide on as I would like to check it out. I'm in the same boat as you and I know one thing, I'll never buy a force 10 propane unit again. We had one in our last boat and it was worse having it on than off. Unless you wan't a rain forest on the inside of your boat make sure if you go with propane it is a sealed combustion unit so the moisture in the lp can't soak your cabin. I like the idea of diesel but I'm concerned about diesel odor and the possibility of soot on the deck which will permanently stain the fiberglass. How clean do the diesel heaters run? Good luck and I hope to see you out sailing this weekend. I plan on an over night Saturday....
Air Heater
I have to agree with Julian. The Eberspacher is the way to go, instant heat, programmable timer,no fumes and reduces condensation...thats why I've ordered one for my new 356. Check out the link on Julians reply Colin
I have to agree with Julian. The Eberspacher is the way to go, instant heat, programmable timer,no fumes and reduces condensation...thats why I've ordered one for my new 356. Check out the link on Julians reply Colin
Heaters
Where in Maine are you? I sail out of Falmout; live in Portland. I hate propane - even if I had a propane stove I would not add another propane burning device to the boat. I will be adding a diesel heater to my boat in the near future. 30 seconds is a small price to my mind to avoide the propane. Lots of people will disagree - fine. Not my boat. If you're near Portland or Searsport the guys at Hamilton have good prices on heaters - propane, too. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Where in Maine are you? I sail out of Falmout; live in Portland. I hate propane - even if I had a propane stove I would not add another propane burning device to the boat. I will be adding a diesel heater to my boat in the near future. 30 seconds is a small price to my mind to avoide the propane. Lots of people will disagree - fine. Not my boat. If you're near Portland or Searsport the guys at Hamilton have good prices on heaters - propane, too. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Dickinson Propane Heater
Allowed me to do interior woodworking all through the winter in the main cabin. It is a sealed unit takeing air from the outside for combustion through a dual chimney. It also has a built in 12v fan. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
Allowed me to do interior woodworking all through the winter in the main cabin. It is a sealed unit takeing air from the outside for combustion through a dual chimney. It also has a built in 12v fan. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
Stan, I always hear that propane heating in the
cabin causes a lot of moisture in the air. Does that occur on your boat or does the dual chimney closed system prevent that from happening. I know if I leave on my stoves for too long the inside can get warm and clammy, but I was on someone elses boat that had a deisel heater and it was nice and dry below.
cabin causes a lot of moisture in the air. Does that occur on your boat or does the dual chimney closed system prevent that from happening. I know if I leave on my stoves for too long the inside can get warm and clammy, but I was on someone elses boat that had a deisel heater and it was nice and dry below.
Force 10 heaters
I have done some research on the Force 10 heaters myself. this is the info that i found. The diesel/kerosene heater provides 6000 BTU of heat. however, theirs is a pressure fed system. it requires a minimum 15 psi of constant pressure. so, you will most likely need a pressure vessel in addition to the heater. As well, with the d/k you must preheat with alcohol each and every time you light the burner. lastly, the d/k version has no safety features like oxygen depletion sensor or thermocouple protection. i prefer their propane unit. it has the two formentioned safety features and a piezo ignitor. another response earlier indicated alot of moisture - this would lead me to believe that that particular heater did not have the correct length of flue and therefore did not have the correct amount of draw to draw the fumes and moisutre out. with both versions, you need a minumum 3 feet of verticle rise from the top of the heater to the outside. Force 10 also has a new unit out called the direct vent propane heater. it draws all the oxygen it consumes from the outside. this direct vent. it also has a completely sealed combustion chamber and therfore no moisture can enter the cabin area. it seems pretty good. i am going to go with the samller propane one, as the direct vent is overkill for the space i have.
I have done some research on the Force 10 heaters myself. this is the info that i found. The diesel/kerosene heater provides 6000 BTU of heat. however, theirs is a pressure fed system. it requires a minimum 15 psi of constant pressure. so, you will most likely need a pressure vessel in addition to the heater. As well, with the d/k you must preheat with alcohol each and every time you light the burner. lastly, the d/k version has no safety features like oxygen depletion sensor or thermocouple protection. i prefer their propane unit. it has the two formentioned safety features and a piezo ignitor. another response earlier indicated alot of moisture - this would lead me to believe that that particular heater did not have the correct length of flue and therefore did not have the correct amount of draw to draw the fumes and moisutre out. with both versions, you need a minumum 3 feet of verticle rise from the top of the heater to the outside. Force 10 also has a new unit out called the direct vent propane heater. it draws all the oxygen it consumes from the outside. this direct vent. it also has a completely sealed combustion chamber and therfore no moisture can enter the cabin area. it seems pretty good. i am going to go with the samller propane one, as the direct vent is overkill for the space i have.
Moisture ?
Tom, I never noticed any in the 20lbs I burned over the winter. Although I understand water is a by product of combustion (all fuels I guess?) I don't understand how any moisture could be introduced to the cabin because the intake air is from the outside and the exhaust also goes out through the dual chimney. By the way the glass doesn't soot up and it burns with a mostly yellow flame so it's as pretty as a SS stove Can be. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
Tom, I never noticed any in the 20lbs I burned over the winter. Although I understand water is a by product of combustion (all fuels I guess?) I don't understand how any moisture could be introduced to the cabin because the intake air is from the outside and the exhaust also goes out through the dual chimney. By the way the glass doesn't soot up and it burns with a mostly yellow flame so it's as pretty as a SS stove Can be. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
Combustion Moisture
Combustion gases produce water vapor. With portable alcohol units, the combustions gases are released inside the boat...along with carbon dioxide and possibly carbon monoxide. This will make you boat wet eventually (may become toxic as well). If you have any type of heater that vents its exhaust gases outside the boat, it will not introduce moisture in your boat. It does not matter if the heater consumes the air from inside your boat or outside your boat for combustion. Also remember that if you heat your boat, the air inside will be able to hold more humidity, so over time the absolute (not relative) hunidity in your baot may increase when heated. Then, when you stop heating, you may notice that the additional mositure held in the boat condenses out on surfaces in the boat.
Combustion gases produce water vapor. With portable alcohol units, the combustions gases are released inside the boat...along with carbon dioxide and possibly carbon monoxide. This will make you boat wet eventually (may become toxic as well). If you have any type of heater that vents its exhaust gases outside the boat, it will not introduce moisture in your boat. It does not matter if the heater consumes the air from inside your boat or outside your boat for combustion. Also remember that if you heat your boat, the air inside will be able to hold more humidity, so over time the absolute (not relative) hunidity in your baot may increase when heated. Then, when you stop heating, you may notice that the additional mositure held in the boat condenses out on surfaces in the boat.
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