We moved our 321 from Annapolis to Bainbridge Island last year and had a great 53-day cruise this spring/summer in the San Juans and Gulf Islands. Since our boat was outfitted for the Chesapeake and is now being used in much cooler weather, we want to install a cabin heating system for use at anchor/underway (it already has an air conditioner/heat pump for use at dockside on 110V). And, we want to get a Dodger installed -- preferably one that will zip up with our Bimini (which already has a zipper in place). Any specific recommendations or general suggestions will be appreciated.
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Dodger Recommendation
One of the premier dodger companies in the Northwest is Artful Dodger in Port Townsend. They have a really good reputation and do excellent work. The appearance of the dodger is also very important because you want one with nice lines and this is something they're good at. The problem with Artful Dodger is one has to take the boat to them (Hudson Point Marina, you pay the slip rent) and leave it there for about a week and there is typically a long lead time. We got the bottom painted next door so she did the dodger while it was up on the hard and this killed two birds with one stone. Our traveler is in front of the companionway so we have four "windows" with zippers so the two center windows roll up. The center zipper is lined up with the main sheet and the port and starboard zippers are lined up with the traveler adjustment lines. As for a heater, we have an Arcdic forced air heater. If I had to do it over again I'd probably go with a bulkhead or water heater. The bulkhead heater because it is quiet (only need a Hella fan, the top-of-the-line model, over the heater; has very small current draw and is very quiet) and the water heater because the bulkhead holes are smaller and one can have hot water; don't know about noise or energy consumption though. If you're going to be on the hook with the heater running you'll want something that has a low current draw. Electrical conductors: Don't save on wire, use marine grade with tin plated connectors and heat shrink. A motor takes about 3.5 time more current at startup than for running so size the conductors larger if a motor is in the circuit. Size for round trip distance from battery stud to battery stud. Motors do not like low voltage. Noise: Recommend talking to the dealer about soundproofing options.
One of the premier dodger companies in the Northwest is Artful Dodger in Port Townsend. They have a really good reputation and do excellent work. The appearance of the dodger is also very important because you want one with nice lines and this is something they're good at. The problem with Artful Dodger is one has to take the boat to them (Hudson Point Marina, you pay the slip rent) and leave it there for about a week and there is typically a long lead time. We got the bottom painted next door so she did the dodger while it was up on the hard and this killed two birds with one stone. Our traveler is in front of the companionway so we have four "windows" with zippers so the two center windows roll up. The center zipper is lined up with the main sheet and the port and starboard zippers are lined up with the traveler adjustment lines. As for a heater, we have an Arcdic forced air heater. If I had to do it over again I'd probably go with a bulkhead or water heater. The bulkhead heater because it is quiet (only need a Hella fan, the top-of-the-line model, over the heater; has very small current draw and is very quiet) and the water heater because the bulkhead holes are smaller and one can have hot water; don't know about noise or energy consumption though. If you're going to be on the hook with the heater running you'll want something that has a low current draw. Electrical conductors: Don't save on wire, use marine grade with tin plated connectors and heat shrink. A motor takes about 3.5 time more current at startup than for running so size the conductors larger if a motor is in the circuit. Size for round trip distance from battery stud to battery stud. Motors do not like low voltage. Noise: Recommend talking to the dealer about soundproofing options.
Getting the BRRR out.
Dear Phil. When we had our Beneteau F456 in your neck of the woods we installed a Force 10 diesel heater in our saloon to knock back the chill and were very pleased with the result. The heater is mounted on the forward bulkhead, port side. It stands off the bulkhead on its own insulated mounts, and so requires no further insulation behind it. The air gap is sufficent to prevent scorching. In fact our bulkhead barely gets warm. The fuel tank fit neatly under the settee near the heater and is pressurised using a bicycle pump. The tank held enough fuel to keep us warm for several days between fill ups. We usually turned it off when we went to bed and relit it during the day. I preferred the Force 10 because it only needs a 1 inch stainless pipe for the exhaust, and the deck fitting for the exhaust is quite low and discreet, even sitting on a 3 inch high teak pad, unlike some of the larger and more ungainly charlie nobles I've seen. Ours is mounted out of the way just in front of the mast. Other systems require a 3 inch exhaust pipe and a charlie noble that stands on a chimney well above deck level. A 3 inch exhaust pipe is very intrusive in the cabin. The Force 10 works well and doesn't ruin the look of the boat. For further efficency a fan aimed just above the heater will help distribute the heat even further. If you were going to live full time on the boat up there it would be worth looking at the Espar heating systems, although they are quite a bit more expensive. As for the dodger, I can't help you there since I don't know any of the local sail makers. All I can suggest is that when you are getting quotes make sure that the sail maker will come to the boat at least three times: once to take measurements, once for the rough fit when the pieces are cut, and once for the final fit. Make sure he quotes you for side curtains as well, you will want them for the rainy days of winter. Go with a well known sailmaker and get references so you can look at examples of their work. Good luck. Brian Pickton aboard The Legend Rodney Bay, St. Lucia, West Indies
Dear Phil. When we had our Beneteau F456 in your neck of the woods we installed a Force 10 diesel heater in our saloon to knock back the chill and were very pleased with the result. The heater is mounted on the forward bulkhead, port side. It stands off the bulkhead on its own insulated mounts, and so requires no further insulation behind it. The air gap is sufficent to prevent scorching. In fact our bulkhead barely gets warm. The fuel tank fit neatly under the settee near the heater and is pressurised using a bicycle pump. The tank held enough fuel to keep us warm for several days between fill ups. We usually turned it off when we went to bed and relit it during the day. I preferred the Force 10 because it only needs a 1 inch stainless pipe for the exhaust, and the deck fitting for the exhaust is quite low and discreet, even sitting on a 3 inch high teak pad, unlike some of the larger and more ungainly charlie nobles I've seen. Ours is mounted out of the way just in front of the mast. Other systems require a 3 inch exhaust pipe and a charlie noble that stands on a chimney well above deck level. A 3 inch exhaust pipe is very intrusive in the cabin. The Force 10 works well and doesn't ruin the look of the boat. For further efficency a fan aimed just above the heater will help distribute the heat even further. If you were going to live full time on the boat up there it would be worth looking at the Espar heating systems, although they are quite a bit more expensive. As for the dodger, I can't help you there since I don't know any of the local sail makers. All I can suggest is that when you are getting quotes make sure that the sail maker will come to the boat at least three times: once to take measurements, once for the rough fit when the pieces are cut, and once for the final fit. Make sure he quotes you for side curtains as well, you will want them for the rainy days of winter. Go with a well known sailmaker and get references so you can look at examples of their work. Good luck. Brian Pickton aboard The Legend Rodney Bay, St. Lucia, West Indies
Thanks
Brian & John - thanks for the advice. The Force 10 diesel heater sounds interesting. Do you get any diesel odors from the heater or do they go up the stack with the CO? John -- we contacted the folks at Artful Dodger this Spring and were told that they had folks lined up for the next year! They obviously make a quality product!
Brian & John - thanks for the advice. The Force 10 diesel heater sounds interesting. Do you get any diesel odors from the heater or do they go up the stack with the CO? John -- we contacted the folks at Artful Dodger this Spring and were told that they had folks lined up for the next year! They obviously make a quality product!
Another Bulkhead Heater Recommendation
Phil, Thanks for your reply! With regard to a bulkhead heater there is another brand that is very similarly constructed to the Force 10 that Brian mentioned that I'd highly recommend considering. Unfortunately, I don't know the brand but it is made near Vancouver, B.C. It looks almost identical to the Force 10, complete with window, but the difference is it has a cold air supply line which is next to the exhaust and cuts down on the pressure differential between the two. A friend of mine had one on his Union 36, a liveaboard, and even during the extreemly high winds at Shilshole it never blew out where as many other types did. Also, there was pratically no soot, a very important item to look for. I'd recommend checking with Doc Freemans in Ballard or Fisheries Supply on North Lake Union across from Gas Works Park. I don't think Doc's caries it but they're fairly free with their information and might tell you the company name. I didn't check but "Pacific Yachting" might have an ad.
Phil, Thanks for your reply! With regard to a bulkhead heater there is another brand that is very similarly constructed to the Force 10 that Brian mentioned that I'd highly recommend considering. Unfortunately, I don't know the brand but it is made near Vancouver, B.C. It looks almost identical to the Force 10, complete with window, but the difference is it has a cold air supply line which is next to the exhaust and cuts down on the pressure differential between the two. A friend of mine had one on his Union 36, a liveaboard, and even during the extreemly high winds at Shilshole it never blew out where as many other types did. Also, there was pratically no soot, a very important item to look for. I'd recommend checking with Doc Freemans in Ballard or Fisheries Supply on North Lake Union across from Gas Works Park. I don't think Doc's caries it but they're fairly free with their information and might tell you the company name. I didn't check but "Pacific Yachting" might have an ad.
Odourless
Oct.31,2000 Dear Phil, I took the opportunity to take a look at John Nantz' reply and I think I know the heater he is refering to, but I'm having a major skull cramp remembering the name. If it comes to me I'll drop you a line. They are available from the major chandleries in the Northwest, along with the Force 10. At dockside we supplemented our diesel heater with a couple of small ceramic heaters on really cold nights where we had shore power, but beware, ceramic heaters are big power consumers. If the heater John is refering to is the one I think it is, it is quite an attractive item, but if I recall correctly it needed a tiled or stainless steel insulator behind it to protect the bulkhead,which involves a bit more work then the Force 10. Done right the tiled installations we've seen looks quite attractive. This model has the advantage of allowing you to see the flame, a nice feature in a cold anchorage on a winter's night. If I've got it right this is the heater I was referring to that had the 3 inch stack that I found a bit intrusive in the cabin, but that is an aesthetic call. Perhaps John can help us out on the details? A seperate cold air supply means that you are not using cabin air for ignition. If the heater burns a lot of fuel this is an issue, while if it is fuel efficent it becomes less significant. You would not want to have your cabin nearly air tight in any event because of the problems this causes with condensation, mildew and of course carbon monoxide and CO2 poisoning from not just cabin heaters, but also propane stoves and instant hot water heaters if they suffer exhaust blockages. To get to your actual question, the way the Force 10 is designed the burner preheats the diesel to a gas which is then burned to produce heat through warming plates in the heater. Combustion is odorless once the burner is properly heated, which is done by preheating the burner with alcohol which is put into a burner cup and ignited. We had no odor problems, nor have any of the other diesel heaters we have encountered, including the one mentioned by John. With respect to soot we have seen this produced from diesel stoves with dirty chimneys, but have not seen any appreciable amount produced by our heater or any other, because a clean burning gas produces very little carbon. By the way, combustion is aided by adding a cup or so of denatured alcohol to the diesel in the heater. Force 10 has instructions on the proper amount to use. Now if I could only remeber the name of the heater John is refering to... Fair winds, Brian Pickton aboard The Legend Rodney Bay, St. Lucia, West Indies
Oct.31,2000 Dear Phil, I took the opportunity to take a look at John Nantz' reply and I think I know the heater he is refering to, but I'm having a major skull cramp remembering the name. If it comes to me I'll drop you a line. They are available from the major chandleries in the Northwest, along with the Force 10. At dockside we supplemented our diesel heater with a couple of small ceramic heaters on really cold nights where we had shore power, but beware, ceramic heaters are big power consumers. If the heater John is refering to is the one I think it is, it is quite an attractive item, but if I recall correctly it needed a tiled or stainless steel insulator behind it to protect the bulkhead,which involves a bit more work then the Force 10. Done right the tiled installations we've seen looks quite attractive. This model has the advantage of allowing you to see the flame, a nice feature in a cold anchorage on a winter's night. If I've got it right this is the heater I was referring to that had the 3 inch stack that I found a bit intrusive in the cabin, but that is an aesthetic call. Perhaps John can help us out on the details? A seperate cold air supply means that you are not using cabin air for ignition. If the heater burns a lot of fuel this is an issue, while if it is fuel efficent it becomes less significant. You would not want to have your cabin nearly air tight in any event because of the problems this causes with condensation, mildew and of course carbon monoxide and CO2 poisoning from not just cabin heaters, but also propane stoves and instant hot water heaters if they suffer exhaust blockages. To get to your actual question, the way the Force 10 is designed the burner preheats the diesel to a gas which is then burned to produce heat through warming plates in the heater. Combustion is odorless once the burner is properly heated, which is done by preheating the burner with alcohol which is put into a burner cup and ignited. We had no odor problems, nor have any of the other diesel heaters we have encountered, including the one mentioned by John. With respect to soot we have seen this produced from diesel stoves with dirty chimneys, but have not seen any appreciable amount produced by our heater or any other, because a clean burning gas produces very little carbon. By the way, combustion is aided by adding a cup or so of denatured alcohol to the diesel in the heater. Force 10 has instructions on the proper amount to use. Now if I could only remeber the name of the heater John is refering to... Fair winds, Brian Pickton aboard The Legend Rodney Bay, St. Lucia, West Indies
Sigmar
Phil and Brian, Stopped by Doc Freeman's and talked to Lindsay Schroeppel and found out the bulkhead heater with the separate air supply is made by Sigmar. They have several on display and the prices are in the lower $600 range. There are at least three models and the small display model looks very nice but it puts out only 10,000 BTU/s. The mid size 120 puts out 12,000 BTUs and the large unit, 180, is rated at 18,000 BTU/s. The air supply is larger than I remembered and is 3-inches, a 'downer'; however, my friend who was a live-aboard and a very technically oriented person really liked his and the good point is it worked in extremely high wind conditions, such as we get during the winter when heat is really needed. Doc's E-mail is docfreeman@seanet.com
Phil and Brian, Stopped by Doc Freeman's and talked to Lindsay Schroeppel and found out the bulkhead heater with the separate air supply is made by Sigmar. They have several on display and the prices are in the lower $600 range. There are at least three models and the small display model looks very nice but it puts out only 10,000 BTU/s. The mid size 120 puts out 12,000 BTUs and the large unit, 180, is rated at 18,000 BTU/s. The air supply is larger than I remembered and is 3-inches, a 'downer'; however, my friend who was a live-aboard and a very technically oriented person really liked his and the good point is it worked in extremely high wind conditions, such as we get during the winter when heat is really needed. Doc's E-mail is docfreeman@seanet.com
Sigmar, that's it.
Nov, 11,2000 Dear John, Thanks for the follow up. Sigmar is the name that was giving me skull cramps, and it was the 3" inch piping that I remembered In a small boat your going to find that 10,000 BTU's are plenty - just compare it to the output on a domestic heater for a full sized house. I don't want sound like a shill for Force 10 (which also stays lit in a breeze) so I'm really pleased that you followed up. Both these companies obviously put out a good product, just look at the number of them out there. Brian Pickton @BeneteauOwners.net Aboard The Legend, Rodney Bay, St. Lucia
Nov, 11,2000 Dear John, Thanks for the follow up. Sigmar is the name that was giving me skull cramps, and it was the 3" inch piping that I remembered In a small boat your going to find that 10,000 BTU's are plenty - just compare it to the output on a domestic heater for a full sized house. I don't want sound like a shill for Force 10 (which also stays lit in a breeze) so I'm really pleased that you followed up. Both these companies obviously put out a good product, just look at the number of them out there. Brian Pickton @BeneteauOwners.net Aboard The Legend, Rodney Bay, St. Lucia
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