C&C 30 MKI - Head reconfiguration Q's

[raccer]

Hello,
Been lurking this forum since last night and it seems full of great advice from helpful people

My dad just bought this boat and I'm the fixxer, I have plumbed a house from the foundation up but this will be my first marine project. I've been reading up in this, and the C&C forum and have a general plan.
The boat is a C&C 30 MKI and was sold with this (head plumbing) project started but the seller neglected to mention it.:cry: As it sits the head itself is a W-C Headmate 1460 and seems in good shape. The through hull fittings seem to have been recently done as they look new.
Here is a pic of what appears to be the discharge fitting with either the intake fitting or the sink drain under it: (Taken looking into the bottom cupboard under the head sink)

So you can also see the new hose and old hose that came with the project. There is another through hull fitting thats also brass just below the frame of this picture, you can see the tip of the plug in the picture. So question one: Which fitting is for intake and which is for sink drain?
I found this pretty useful page on westmarines site that outlines the type of system I want to build, here is the info "borrowed" from their site:

However the first and most glaring difference between this diagram and the boat is the waste tank. The tank on the boat is hidden behind the back wall of the head, and the pump out tube comes into the tank form the top and drops down to about 1" - 2" off the bottom of the tank, kinda like a straw into a cup. Question two: Can I still build the diagrammed system above with this type of tank? The tank also has a circular access port, waste deposit line and vent line all on top. Here is a pic showing the top of the tank:
(sorry about the junk in the picture, )

I have a macerator pump but forgot to record the details before returning home last night, in this last pic you can also notice the three way valve graciously left from the PO. I'm sure i'll have a few more Q's as I start this project!

Thanks for taking the time to read & comment, sorry if I left out something obvious as I'm still learning about sailboats!

-Merrick

 

[Seattle Scott]

the thru hull intake to the head will be "small" 1/2 to 3/4 inch diameter. The sink drain with be larger, usually 1.5 inch diameter. On your diagram, you need to install an anti-syphen loop (as high as possible, usually right up under the deck)betwen your #1 and #2 and also between your #9 and #10.

 

[raccer]

Thanks Scott!
I was about to update the post w/ a third question about if I needed vented loops or not , and I saw your reply!
Awesome timing!
-Merrick

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

A question, some answers and some suggestions

I'm sure you already know that all the remaining corrugated hose has to go...and what the heck IS the one--looks to be 1.5"-- looping down in your first photo??? Onboard plumbing should not have any low loops/sags--no traps or water barriers--only arched loops.

I'm also pretty certain that your "brass" fittings are actually bronze...at least I hope so, 'cuz brass corrodes, making it a very bad choice for use in any system on a boat.

Yes, you can plumb your system pretty much as shown in the WM diagram. You'll want to keep the tank discharge in the top of the tank, so you may need to use a radius fitting to get to the y-valve, which will be above the tank. You may also need inline raidus fittings if there'll be any tight bends in the plumbing.

Your head intake line/thru-hull is 3/4"...I recommend that instead of connecting the head intake line to the intake thru-hull, you reroute it to tee it into the head sink drain line. You'll find plenty of previous conversation about the benefits of doing this in the HM forum archives.

Head discharge is 1.5"...macerator intake is 1.5", macerator discharge is 1".

I'm not sure where Moss Landing is in CA, but unless you're in SoCal I suggest that you consider an alternative to a holding tank that's not only legal in all west coast waters north of Santa Barbara, but far more environmentally friendly than a holding tank: a CG certified Type I MSD...i.e. the Electro Scan Raritan Waste Treatment Easier to install and requires far less plumbing, easier to maintain. If you are in SoCal, unfotunately most of the coastal waters from Santa Barbara south are "no discharge" though...you're stuck with a tank.

You'll need a vented loop in the head intake...it goes between the pump and the bowl, to replace the short piece of hose that mfrs use to connect 'em...do NOT put it between the thru-hull and the pump. It needs to be at least 6-8" above waterline AT ANY ANGLE OF HEEL, which will put it somewhere close to deck level.

If your toilet is more than 10 years old, I'd replace it...avg lifespan for a compact toilet is 7-9 yrs. If it's newer than that, put a rebuild kit in it and plan on replacing it when it starts to develop symptoms. Best choice for a new toilet: the Raritan PH II. or if space is too tight for the PH II, the PHC, which is the same pump, but on a compact base and with a shorter handle to fit in the same space as a compact toilet. Raritan PH II

I'm always available for "one on one" help...just send me a PM. Meanwhile, I suggest you check out the link in my signature...it goes to a comprehensive "marine toilets and holding tanks 101" manual that will help you learn to install, operate and maintain a system to prevent most problems instead of having to fix 'em.

 

[raccer]

Peggie!
Thanks for the comprehensive reply!
No wonder you run this topic!?

The newer hose in the bottom of the first pic connects (on the other side of cabinet) to the W-C head, so I kinda just realized that this might be bad as the bottom of the head is lower in the boat than the discharge fitting ? But maybe this doesn't matter as the tank is even higher.....? The other end of the new hose is just disconnected currently.

I agree hopefully they are bronze, and i am going to get rid of all the old corrugated hose. I think I'm able to order the hose and vented loops now, I'm probably going with the:

as I can use it to replace both the waste lines and the fresh water intakes. I'll search for the topics on the T-connection you mentioned and thanks for that too!

Moss Landing is between Monterey and Santa Cruz CA, its also (the whole Monterey Bay Area) some sort of protected marine sanctuary so I'll probably leave the tank in (not to mention its sandwiched between the head and the hull behind a fixed panel. But the LectraSan does sound cool.

Thanks for the heads-up on your manual too!
Is it available at Borders?
I'm hoping to start this project soon!

-Merrick

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Trident 148 not a good choice

It' s ok for head intake and vent line, but for you head and tank discharge lines you want to use Trident 102 or 102 (identical except for color). Trident Marine: Sanitation Hose It costs considerably more than 148, but it's the most odor permeation resistant hose available today...the ONLY one for which I have never even heard of a single failure. The online store here carries it for a very nice price. http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.htm?fno=400&group=1254

I don't know if Borders keeps my book in stock in all their stores, but you can order it from them. However, I recommend that you orider from the online chandlery here...I get the same royalty no matter where you buy it, but when you buy it here you help to support this site.

You said, "The newer hose in the bottom of the first pic connects (on the other side of cabinet) to the W-C head, so I kinda just realized that this might be bad as the bottom of the head is lower in the boat than the discharge fitting ? But maybe this doesn't matter as the tank is even higher.....?

I can't figure out what the corrugated hose could connect to! As for the newer hose...it's ok that the head is lower than the discharge fitting and/or the tank...just requires a couple of loops in the line. We can work out where to put 'em one-on-one.

According the EPA list of "no discharge" zones here: EPA NDZ list --which they do keep current--there's only one NDZ on the whole west coast north of Santa Barbara...a small harbor off SF Bay at Sausalito. So you'd be ok with a treatment device, but you'd be wise to keep at least a small tank 'cuz things do change.