Hello-I have owned 3 boats over the years all around 25'. I have now decided to buy a bluewater cruiser and spend some extended (for me that is) times of 3-6 months maybe longer being gone. I would like something around 40'. Being a bargain hunter are there any cheaper countries to purchase a used boat in that here in the USA? Traveling and repairs are something I can readily handle.
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Look at the Kalik 44'
Blue water kalik 44' for $75K at www.urifoundation.org. Charitable org., I receive no compensation nor to I benefit from a referral. This is strictly a recommendation for you and charity for those who need it.
Blue water kalik 44' for $75K at www.urifoundation.org. Charitable org., I receive no compensation nor to I benefit from a referral. This is strictly a recommendation for you and charity for those who need it.
Yes, there are alternatives but...
...whether they make sense to you depends on where you want to do your sailing. E.g. boats are cheaper (in an oranges vs. apples sense) in NZ and OZ, also in S Africa and for that matter, Canada. But since you state you only plan to sail/cruise 3-6 mos/yr, you'd best find a boat in a world region that strikes your fancy. In general, buying a boat in Europe (Baltic to the Med) is more expensive because most owners have had to pay a Value Added Tax at the time of purchase and most of that cost is passed on to each successive owner. They may also include systems (heating, smaller sail plans up north) or be built in ways fashionable to the area (e.g. teak decks abound in the Baltic boats) which you'd find incompatible with your cruising plans and/or tastes. Inevitably, Euro boats will have systems specific to their locale and which may require refit once you leave metric-oriented or Euro-based supply centers. Boats in the Caribbean can be abused, former charter boats and/or in locations from which they might need to be moved for major work to be done...but places like St. Thomas and Chag Bay in Trinidad offer used boats in sufficient concentration and with abundant yachtie infrastruce to make shopping at least fun and potentially cheaper (tho' not by a lot). There are other spots from which I've seen great buys occur (Singapore, Hong Kong, Rio Dulce in Guatemala, Panama) but, just as in the U.S., these seemed to be more specific to the circumstances of the individual owner than due to the geographic location. Jack
...whether they make sense to you depends on where you want to do your sailing. E.g. boats are cheaper (in an oranges vs. apples sense) in NZ and OZ, also in S Africa and for that matter, Canada. But since you state you only plan to sail/cruise 3-6 mos/yr, you'd best find a boat in a world region that strikes your fancy. In general, buying a boat in Europe (Baltic to the Med) is more expensive because most owners have had to pay a Value Added Tax at the time of purchase and most of that cost is passed on to each successive owner. They may also include systems (heating, smaller sail plans up north) or be built in ways fashionable to the area (e.g. teak decks abound in the Baltic boats) which you'd find incompatible with your cruising plans and/or tastes. Inevitably, Euro boats will have systems specific to their locale and which may require refit once you leave metric-oriented or Euro-based supply centers. Boats in the Caribbean can be abused, former charter boats and/or in locations from which they might need to be moved for major work to be done...but places like St. Thomas and Chag Bay in Trinidad offer used boats in sufficient concentration and with abundant yachtie infrastruce to make shopping at least fun and potentially cheaper (tho' not by a lot). There are other spots from which I've seen great buys occur (Singapore, Hong Kong, Rio Dulce in Guatemala, Panama) but, just as in the U.S., these seemed to be more specific to the circumstances of the individual owner than due to the geographic location. Jack
Well G.R. do what everybody else does
While a lot of people just as soon stand on their little soap box and tell you how to spend your money. Most of them do not practice what they preach. I have book written in 1876 called the Maine Agricultural report. Back then there used to be meetings around the state with various speakers. The speeches are recorded in this book. Anyway there is a speech in there given buy a farmer in Phillips Maine on buying Maine grown wheat. He tells how cheaper wheat is coming into the state from the west that people are buying and that the local farms are growing up to weeds. He indicates that all the money that used to be spent locally for wheat and circulated in the local economy was now going out of the area, not just hurting the farmer but everybody else too. So he says spend a little more for your wheat locally and keep the money local. Sounds good but today there is not one farm left in Phillips and no one around here grows wheat. Anyway what I’m trying to say is it didn’t work in 1876 and as noble as it sounds its not going to work today. Sure people just as soon see you spend your money for a boat in the US but the problem is they themselves don’t practice what they preach weather it be boats or bread that’s just human nature, like it or not. So when Jim A. calls you a jerk he’s most assuredly being a hypocrite, don’t feel bad about it, we’re all in the same boat. Some people just don’t like to admit it. As for Jim, maybe if he helped contribute a little you would buy in the US. Rest assuredly that won’t happen though.
While a lot of people just as soon stand on their little soap box and tell you how to spend your money. Most of them do not practice what they preach. I have book written in 1876 called the Maine Agricultural report. Back then there used to be meetings around the state with various speakers. The speeches are recorded in this book. Anyway there is a speech in there given buy a farmer in Phillips Maine on buying Maine grown wheat. He tells how cheaper wheat is coming into the state from the west that people are buying and that the local farms are growing up to weeds. He indicates that all the money that used to be spent locally for wheat and circulated in the local economy was now going out of the area, not just hurting the farmer but everybody else too. So he says spend a little more for your wheat locally and keep the money local. Sounds good but today there is not one farm left in Phillips and no one around here grows wheat. Anyway what I’m trying to say is it didn’t work in 1876 and as noble as it sounds its not going to work today. Sure people just as soon see you spend your money for a boat in the US but the problem is they themselves don’t practice what they preach weather it be boats or bread that’s just human nature, like it or not. So when Jim A. calls you a jerk he’s most assuredly being a hypocrite, don’t feel bad about it, we’re all in the same boat. Some people just don’t like to admit it. As for Jim, maybe if he helped contribute a little you would buy in the US. Rest assuredly that won’t happen though.
search the internet
I've noticed that a lot of boats listed on the internet are in other countries. It's funny that someone would get angry about you buying something overseas. Almost everything in the US is now made in China or Mexico!!! Capital is begining to flow that way also. If I was rich enough to benefit from Bushes tax cuts I'd be investing overseas. With the value of the dollar falling it only makes sense. The future of America's workers is wal-mart and Macdonald's. I doubt that China and Mexico will allow a flood of poor hungry americans to flood their labor market. Buying a boat overseas might have some legal and tax complexity. Be sure that you can get a clear title and that you won't lose all of your savings when/if you try to bring it back into the US.
I've noticed that a lot of boats listed on the internet are in other countries. It's funny that someone would get angry about you buying something overseas. Almost everything in the US is now made in China or Mexico!!! Capital is begining to flow that way also. If I was rich enough to benefit from Bushes tax cuts I'd be investing overseas. With the value of the dollar falling it only makes sense. The future of America's workers is wal-mart and Macdonald's. I doubt that China and Mexico will allow a flood of poor hungry americans to flood their labor market. Buying a boat overseas might have some legal and tax complexity. Be sure that you can get a clear title and that you won't lose all of your savings when/if you try to bring it back into the US.
Travel to New Zealand
If you say you can travel I'd check out New Zealand. They have a good reputation for making quality boats and a lot of custom boats are being built there. One other area to consider might be Elan. They're made in Slovenia which is not an EU country and I don't know about their currency against the US dollar. However, they are made for the charter trade and the owners version is just a tweaked charter layout. For coastal cruisers it's hard to compete against domestic production boats. As for elsewere in the world the almighty US dollar is so weak that it doesn't buy that much. If you would have asked that question about four years ago then you could have had some good options available. At that time is was about .80 US to the Euro but now it's 1.20 and worse. You didn't say if you're looking for new or used but there are a lot of used boats in the US market one can make offers on and you aren't committed until they agree to your offer.
If you say you can travel I'd check out New Zealand. They have a good reputation for making quality boats and a lot of custom boats are being built there. One other area to consider might be Elan. They're made in Slovenia which is not an EU country and I don't know about their currency against the US dollar. However, they are made for the charter trade and the owners version is just a tweaked charter layout. For coastal cruisers it's hard to compete against domestic production boats. As for elsewere in the world the almighty US dollar is so weak that it doesn't buy that much. If you would have asked that question about four years ago then you could have had some good options available. At that time is was about .80 US to the Euro but now it's 1.20 and worse. You didn't say if you're looking for new or used but there are a lot of used boats in the US market one can make offers on and you aren't committed until they agree to your offer.
An Elan isn't the answer for a cruising boat...
...despite Slovenia being an industrious country with an expanding boat building industry. For starters, look at the tankage on the boats. They are intended as pacy racers with a bit of cruising capability thrown in to justify the family vacation. And in case it would be relevant to the cruising legalities, Slovenia joins the EU on May 1st along with 9 other nations. Jack
...despite Slovenia being an industrious country with an expanding boat building industry. For starters, look at the tankage on the boats. They are intended as pacy racers with a bit of cruising capability thrown in to justify the family vacation. And in case it would be relevant to the cruising legalities, Slovenia joins the EU on May 1st along with 9 other nations. Jack
New Zealand ain't quite so attractive...
...this year as it was 12 months ago. Last year I bought a whole bunch of NZ manufactured boat equipment at a VERY attractive price in $US, but a month ago when I was there the exchange rate made the prices basically on a par with what you pay here.
...this year as it was 12 months ago. Last year I bought a whole bunch of NZ manufactured boat equipment at a VERY attractive price in $US, but a month ago when I was there the exchange rate made the prices basically on a par with what you pay here.
the dollar keeps falling
I guess that's one reason that gas prices are so high. With a $550,000,000,000+ budget deficit this year and already $7,000,000,000,000+ in debt the USA's credit rating must be slipping. It might be cheaper in the long run just to pay taxes. We were hopeing to retire in another country. With a devalued dollar this might not be possible!!!!!!!
I guess that's one reason that gas prices are so high. With a $550,000,000,000+ budget deficit this year and already $7,000,000,000,000+ in debt the USA's credit rating must be slipping. It might be cheaper in the long run just to pay taxes. We were hopeing to retire in another country. With a devalued dollar this might not be possible!!!!!!!
Not to make it more painful
but in October 2000 the US dollar was buying 1.17 Euros, while today is only buying 0.81 (a drop of 44% in value !!!!). This is a loss that affects every one of us. It is hard to expect that things will get any better in the foreseeable future and you may have to buy your boat from one of the many unemployed created in the past few years.
but in October 2000 the US dollar was buying 1.17 Euros, while today is only buying 0.81 (a drop of 44% in value !!!!). This is a loss that affects every one of us. It is hard to expect that things will get any better in the foreseeable future and you may have to buy your boat from one of the many unemployed created in the past few years.
Politics....
It would be much better to take the politics to another forum. This subject has turned to politics quicker than it takes for a the French military to throw up a white flag! (And yes, I do see the irony in that statement - it was meant to add a little humor).
It would be much better to take the politics to another forum. This subject has turned to politics quicker than it takes for a the French military to throw up a white flag! (And yes, I do see the irony in that statement - it was meant to add a little humor).
Not Politics but economics
The devaluation of the dollar is affecting my cruising plans. With the dollar worth about 40% less that is essentially a 40% tax on my savings. gas/diesel prices have increased about the same amount as the dollar has fallen. to drive to my boat now costs more!!!! Not to mention the drive to work. Between the fall in the stock market and fall in the dollar and the unnaturally low interest rates many would be cruisers are being forced to rethink their plans. If this continues inflation will return and further errode our hopes for the future.
The devaluation of the dollar is affecting my cruising plans. With the dollar worth about 40% less that is essentially a 40% tax on my savings. gas/diesel prices have increased about the same amount as the dollar has fallen. to drive to my boat now costs more!!!! Not to mention the drive to work. Between the fall in the stock market and fall in the dollar and the unnaturally low interest rates many would be cruisers are being forced to rethink their plans. If this continues inflation will return and further errode our hopes for the future.
Sounds Like Politics To Me......
Tell me what spin you want on the global economic situation, and I can argue it - good for the US or bad for the US. Like the Don Henley song states, "I can get you any result you like". I've been involved in economics most of my life - it's where my education is, and I've spent much of my life teaching it. I could point out all of the positive spin in all this, but since - as I stated - politics should be shared on a different forum, I'm not going to go into the subject. The original poster was asking for advice on how to buy a boat, now what our opinions on the euro vs. the dollar was, or whether we were going to be able to do what we originally planned to do in retirement or not.
Tell me what spin you want on the global economic situation, and I can argue it - good for the US or bad for the US. Like the Don Henley song states, "I can get you any result you like". I've been involved in economics most of my life - it's where my education is, and I've spent much of my life teaching it. I could point out all of the positive spin in all this, but since - as I stated - politics should be shared on a different forum, I'm not going to go into the subject. The original poster was asking for advice on how to buy a boat, now what our opinions on the euro vs. the dollar was, or whether we were going to be able to do what we originally planned to do in retirement or not.
GR Brown of portland your answer is...
at this point your $$ are starting to go alot further domestically if you are looking at buying a boat than overseas. The reason being is the devaluation of your $$ in "most" overseas markets, not to mention if there are differentr taxes needed to be paid in the country you are purchasing. Not to mention the cost of shipping it from the country you purchase in to the area you are looking to sail it in (unless of course you are sailing around the world, then any place is as good to start as any) So all in all its not necesarily better/cheaper to buy overseas **unless** there is a glut of the type of boat you are looking for in one small area. Then the "supply and demand" factor might be in your factor. For instance, if I really wanted a Halberg Rassey I might look over in Sweden and see what bthe costs are. But in the end, you have to determine whether the "hassle factor" is worth it -- personally I don't think it is. There are **thousands** of excellent boats for sale in the US, especially with the economy being the way it is. Less people have the descretionary income of boat ownership, thus good deals for those that are patient. Bottom line - buy it here.
at this point your $$ are starting to go alot further domestically if you are looking at buying a boat than overseas. The reason being is the devaluation of your $$ in "most" overseas markets, not to mention if there are differentr taxes needed to be paid in the country you are purchasing. Not to mention the cost of shipping it from the country you purchase in to the area you are looking to sail it in (unless of course you are sailing around the world, then any place is as good to start as any) So all in all its not necesarily better/cheaper to buy overseas **unless** there is a glut of the type of boat you are looking for in one small area. Then the "supply and demand" factor might be in your factor. For instance, if I really wanted a Halberg Rassey I might look over in Sweden and see what bthe costs are. But in the end, you have to determine whether the "hassle factor" is worth it -- personally I don't think it is. There are **thousands** of excellent boats for sale in the US, especially with the economy being the way it is. Less people have the descretionary income of boat ownership, thus good deals for those that are patient. Bottom line - buy it here.
and in the end.....
it will all even out, eventually. Buy the boat that best suits your needs from where ever you find it. Leave world politics out of your sailing whenever possible, it only drags us all down emotionally. Personally, I'd probably buy the boat in the general geographic region that I intend to sail the next six months instead of outfitting a boat to sail across some ocean THAN start my crusing. Just my opinion from a dumb Cracker down in south florida. As for Frenchie and Jim, relax guys, there's enough anger already. I'd rather be sailing than arguing politics any day, nuff said........
it will all even out, eventually. Buy the boat that best suits your needs from where ever you find it. Leave world politics out of your sailing whenever possible, it only drags us all down emotionally. Personally, I'd probably buy the boat in the general geographic region that I intend to sail the next six months instead of outfitting a boat to sail across some ocean THAN start my crusing. Just my opinion from a dumb Cracker down in south florida. As for Frenchie and Jim, relax guys, there's enough anger already. I'd rather be sailing than arguing politics any day, nuff said........
Thanks for your help and input
Thanks for all the input. I did not mention I was looking for used-but I was really interested in if there are certain areas of the world where there are better buy on resale boats than here in the US. It is not about politics-it is about supply and demand and where my dollar goes the furthest. Thanks for your help and input
Thanks for all the input. I did not mention I was looking for used-but I was really interested in if there are certain areas of the world where there are better buy on resale boats than here in the US. It is not about politics-it is about supply and demand and where my dollar goes the furthest. Thanks for your help and input
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