Buying New Porta Potty

[Greengas]

As I get ready for my second season with my Mac25 its time to replace the porta potty. I'm looking for recommendations on what would be the most convenient and efficient one to purchase. I am a trailer sailor and out here in Colorado we do lake sailing so you are never that far away from shore. But with the grandkids on board now I see the need for an "emergency" device. I've emptied the black tank in my RV so I know how to hook up the hose, etc. But I've never had a porta potty before (the one that came with the boat was junk and was thrown out) so I'm not sure how to proceed. I look forward to my pending education.

 

[RussC]

We went with the Luggable Loo (Wag Bag) and it works well for us as an emergency device. legal in all states to place the sealed bags in any dumpster. no muss, no fuss.

.02

 

[Benny17441]

Before you purchase define your anticipated needs. According to the number of grandkids and adults aboard calculate the volume of waste and flush water that you need for it to hold. Once you have determined the size compare how high or how low the seat may be. Don't buy a large one just for having extra capacity as remember you will have to lug that tank to a dump station or a rest room to dump it. Check that the tank has adequate handles for portability. Usually the ones with a larger tank the seat is higher which may or may not be a plus. Most will usually have a small tank for flushing water with a hand pump. Some have the capability of being able to hook up to a deck fitting for pumping out so determine if that is something you might want to do. Then determine where you are going to store and set the tank. Once you cover your needs and likes then you can compare by price and look for the one that offers you the best value.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

IMO the best choice on a 25' boat is a self-contained system--an "MSD" portapotty...the "MSD" designation in model number means it's fitted for pumpout and designed to be permanently installed, which means that although it's still called a PORTApotty, you don't have to carry anything off the boat to empty it. A 5-6 gallon model holds 50-60 flushes...you'd need at least a 30 gal tank to hold that many from a manual marine toilet. No plumbing needed except a vent line and pumpout hose--so no new holes in the boat...and -0- maintenance needed except for rinsing out the tank--which you can do with a bucket while it's being pumped out. Cost including the pumpout hose and vent line is about $200--a fraction of what you'd spend for toilet, tank and all the related plumbing needed. And the best part is, you have all the advantages of a toilet and holding tank without giving up a square foot of storage space.
Check out the Thetford 550P MSD and the Dometic/SeaLand 565MSD.

 

[David in Sandusky]

What Peggy said.

We have cruised 17 years with an MSD porta-potty, and easily go 4 days for 2 adults. Be sure to use a good oxygen additive - it will eliminate odor. We use Odorlos.

 

[centerline]

as Benny said, you should define your needs better.

after using both types for many years, I believe the basic style porta-pottie (NON-msd) is the best for trailerable boats that are not going to be moored/slipped, but return to their trailer after the trip is over....
(an MSD style porta-potty is a porta-pottie plumbed into your boat as a permanently attached system, and can not be carried off the boat to dump it)

on a boat that is always trailered, the problem with an MSD style toilet is that once you get the boat out of the water and away from the waterbound poopsucker systems, you are stuck with waste in your holding tank, until you get back on the water where there is a system to pump it out.
the MSD units are fine as long as you are in an area where they have suckers to pull the waste out, but in some places one wants to trailer the boat to, these systems just are not available.
with a Sailboat, where dump stations are available, but very few and far between, the distance to the pump out could be several hours or a day or more away in some locations, whereas a powerboat can make it there to dump in an hour....

we trailer long distances with our 25, and we use it as a "camper" in it along the way.... and when we need to dump the head, we just stop at a rest stop and dump it down a toilet.... and when we get to where we are going and find there are no marine facilities on the lake, we can carry the waste tank up to one of the forest service "outhouses" and dump it there.
...and when loading up after the long weekend, the last thing most of us want to do is wait in line at a dump station waiting their turn to dump before loading up and putting the boat away.
I carry it home and dump it down the clean-out hole in my septic line, at my convenience...

anyone that trailers a boat much, or boats in remote areas that doesnt have marine poopsucker systems conveniently located, would never be happy with an MSD set up...

As for good quality porta-potties, you dont have many choices. but get one with a 5gal waste tank
thetford is about the best one available, but there are those that are branded differently and look almost like it... I prefer the electric/battery flush models because they have a consistently stronger flow/swirl of water to flush with.
some have an air pump that pressurizes the flush water tank enough for 2-4 flushes, and a simple push button to open the "flush" valve, which I have found to be acceptable.... others have a pump that squirts a stream of water with each stoke, and depending on the model, some of these may not work as good as others.

for longevity, do NOT get one with a "bellows" pump for flushing, as the bellows can crack and not allow the toilet to be flushed.

what your actual needs and desires are will determine what system you should go with, but if you decide to go with a regular portapottie, rather than the MSD style, PM me and I can give you some advice on the easiest and cleanest way to dump and care for it.

and dont overlook the wag-bag system, and those similar to it, that some people are very happy with (or, as happy as one can be when dealing with this stuff)

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

(an MSD style porta-potty is a porta-pottie plumbed into your boat as a permanently attached system, and can not be carried off the boat to dump it)

Sorry Centerline, but that's not true. "Permanently installed" only means securely clamped down. The vent line and pumpout lines can easily be disconnected to carry the tank ashore or stop at an RV dump station to empty it if necessary. Coastal sailors who spend time offshore beyond the "3 mile limit" where it's legal to dump a tank often install a y-valve and macerator pump in the pumpout line to do that...which--by attaching a hose to the thru-hull could also be used at RV dump stations.

As for battery powered vs manual bellows...it's never a good idea to store ANYTHING with batteries installed because batteries corrode when the device sits unused for extended periods...which also applies to a boat is left to sit on a trailer or in a slip for long periods They also wear out from use, so unless you have spare batteries, the toilet won't work. Bellows pumps are much more durable in portapotties and equipment made for marine use than you seem to think (the vacuum pump in a VacuFlush toilet is an electric bellows pump), last "on the shelf" when stored as a spare, and are easy to replace.

All that said...if you're happy with your setup, great..."whatever floats YOUR boat" for you is all that matters. But you've based your rejection of MSD portapotties on your own preconceived notions about them instead of facts.

 

[Siamese]

As a day sailor who does the occasional longer trip on Lake Michigan with a Catalina 28, I'm very happy with having a porta potty onboard, in place of the pump out system that came with our boat.

I've always used the Thetford brand. No pump out capability, and no electric motor. Just the basic unit for about 70 bucks. They're available with varying tank capacities, and the trade-off is that larger tanks make for a taller unit, so bear that in mind with regard to comfort.

I've always found that they're easier to empty than people seem to think. You just remove the top/bowl section and pick up the lower/tank section like it was a suitcase. Carry it to the nearest toilet, and there's a large swing out spout on the top, that makes emptying a breeze. The "icky factor is low, unless you really want to dwell on it.

Screw the large cap back on the spout, swing the spout back in place, and you're good to go. Unlike a conventional holding tank system, we've never had repairs, and never had anyone clog it up with TP, feminine products, or poo.

We encourage our guests to use it (it's funny how many non-boaters seem reluctant to pee on a boat, and rush to the bathroom when you get back to the dock). We have a set of instructions posted in the head where guests will see them.

On our current boat, the porta potty sits fore and aft in the head, and is wedged between a wall and the sink, so it can't go anywhere. On our previous boat, it was port/starboard, and needed to be secured. We first tried a couple wide velcro strips on the bottom, but that wasn't enough to hold it in place when heeled to starboard. Ask my sister, tee hee. We screwed in a fitting behind where the potty sat, and ran a nylon cinch strap around the potty to keep it secure to the fitting. Between the velcro and the strap, it stayed put.

 

[Benny17441]

Let's face it, pump outs usually come at a fee. It is OK if you have a 20 gallon tank but if you are going to pump out your 2.5 gallon porta potty even at $5 a pop it is a waste (no pun intended). I side with Centerline that in a trailerable boat an MSD might not be the best idea. On the other hand if you are going to replace a head and holding tank in a docked boat an MSD Potty might offer a convenient and inexpensive solution. Having to connect or disconnect a pump out line to haul the tank out does not meet my convenience criteria so it would be one or the other, freestanding/carry the suitcase or installed/pump out.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

In deciding whether to go with portable or pumpable, and 2.5 gallons vs 5.5 gallons, it may be helpful to know that water and waste weigh the same amount: 8.333 lbs/gallon...so a full 2.5 gallon tank weighs about 23 lbs including the tank...and a full 5.5 gallon tank weighs about 48 lbs., which is a lot carry off a boat and haul up a dock, even on a dock cart...and then try pour into a toilet without spilling any. Because too many people couldn't, most marinas don't allow portapotty dumping in their restrooms any more, but not that many provide portapotty dump stations along with pumpouts....you may be taking it home to dump in your toilet, hopefully without spilling any.

Most people can carry 23 lbs...but will 20-25 flushes be enough to last 4 people for a whole weekend if the water is too cold to make taking a swim a solution if it isn't?

To each his own...that's why they make both types. What works best for YOU is the only thing that matters. Those are just a few more things to factor into your decision.

 

[25yearslater]

If you are worried about the weight here is an alternative to installing the 550P MSD version with the 5.5 gallon capacity. Buy one of these to fit the pump out station's coupling: http://www.mcmaster.com/#cam-and-groove-hose-couplings/=11jyr4g Head for your local plumbing supply place and buy the corresponding Male thread adapter and a short piece of PVC to fit. Glue it together and thread it in. Bingo your own personal pump out. Insert into mounted Potty through the flush valve and have them pump you out. Works great and you still have the ease of taking it home to dump.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Works great and you still have the ease of taking it home to dump

The MSD version offers the same option without the need to store stinking couplings and adapters aboard... and the price difference between the portable and pumpable 550P is about what you'd pay for them. That you felt the need for them sounds a lot like buyer's remorse to me!

 

[25yearslater]

No remorse here Peggy. 48 lbs isn't too much for me to lift. I take it home when needed and down the toilet it goes. Best part is I don't have anymore holes in my deck or woodwork to accommodate stinky hoses.

 

[topcat0399]

We converted our porta potty into a wag bag system. Where we sail there are no pump outs and dealing with a waste tank after a a few days sail was awful. So our porta potty looks like a porta potty but really now acts as a lid, lid holder, and toilet seat for a bucket....

 

[centerline]

Sorry Centerline, but that's not true. "Permanently installed" only means securely clamped down. The vent line and pumpout lines can easily be disconnected to carry the tank ashore or stop at an RV dump station to empty it if necessary. Coastal sailors who spend time offshore beyond the "3 mile limit" where it's legal to dump a tank often install a y-valve and macerator pump in the pumpout line to do that...which--by attaching a hose to the thru-hull could also be used at RV dump stations.

As for battery powered vs manual bellows...it's never a good idea to store ANYTHING with batteries installed because batteries corrode when the device sits unused for extended periods...which also applies to a boat is left to sit on a trailer or in a slip for long periods They also wear out from use, so unless you have spare batteries, the toilet won't work. Bellows pumps are much more durable in portapotties and equipment made for marine use than you seem to think (the vacuum pump in a VacuFlush toilet is an electric bellows pump), last "on the shelf" when stored as a spare, and are easy to replace.

All that said...if you're happy with your setup, great..."whatever floats YOUR boat" for you is all that matters. But you've based your rejection of MSD portapotties on your own preconceived notions about them instead of facts.

mostly I will disagree...
and not because of what I think, but because of what I know after 50 years of experience using buckets and portapotties on smaller boats and MSD/toilets on larger boats, in waters that are not lined with pumpout stations.

..."preconceived" has nothing more to do with my opinions than does yours, and Im not sure how you read my post, but there is absolutely no rejection of msd toilets on my part. in fact, I DO agree that MSD's have their place, (and said so) and it is the majority, but its not every place just because its in a boat.... whereas you have made it clear that you are NOT in favor of anything except an MSD toilet on a boat, even if it is just a portapottie....
your argument will never fit in the largest part, and remote areas, of the world where there are not pump-out stations every couple of miles. in the areas where you obviously have done most of your boating, an MSD may be the best, and possibly the only choice that makes sense, but its just not so when you go outside of that area where pumpout stations are not available.

one can find pumpout stations where there are crowds of boaters, and very few stations where the crowds thin out.... and none where the crowds dont go.... and a lot of people seek out these areas "where the crowds dont go".

I will agree that an MSD portapottie can be disconnected to carry off, but thats not convienient AT ALL when you are a trailer sailor who needs to carry off MUCH more often than being pumped out. and its much messier to disconnect the lines than it is to just grab it and carry it off.
it makes no sense whichever way you look at it, when its easy enough and cleaner to pump out a carry off tank, after you have carried it off, using a cheap homemade pvc pipe adaptor....

as for batteries in the electric models... I have 2 of them. one i use in my small boat and one I have in my atv trailer.... they are the thetford brand that I have owned for 10ys+, and the batteries last 2+ years in them, without changing them out. and even though they still pump strong, I change them just because I dont want an aged battery damaging the contacts. and the batteries dont fail immediately, but slowly fade, which give a clue at least a week in advance that the batteries need changing...
I will agree that the battery holder could be damaged by a leaky battery, and I have never experienced corrosion because of the marine enviroment, but in a marine enviroment, anything is possible, and the less care you take of something, the more possible it is that anything can happen.

as for the bellows pump I was referring to the cheap units that a lot of people gravitate towards, with an obvious bellows pump to push on to flush the bowl.... these bellows fail after a 3-4 years. a piston pump is nearly forever. and my electric ones are still working like new after many years. and whether one needs to carry a spare bellows for the tiolet, or spare batteries for the toilet, (that will probably fit other electronics onboard), spares are good to have handy....

all types of "toilets" their place, but not all of them have a place in all locations/enviroments.... so with a very open mind about this, lets just say that I dont have a lifetime of experience in the crowded areas where you boat, and you dont have a lifetime of experience in the area where I do the majority of my boating... our experiences may differ and because of that so can our opinions, and neither of us is wrong.
you and I have different needs, and the only thing that is "wrong" is for either of us to assume that we know what the exact usage needs are of the person who we are giving advice to...

 

[Greengas]

Wow. It seems I may have hit a nerve here. My needs are simple. As of now, we are day sailors. Have yet to even do one overnite on the boat. With that said, I am going to opt for, after giving full considerations to all options, a Thetford Portapotty, versus an MSD system. My guess is most times we wont even be using it. Sort of for emergencies only. I am drifting towards a taller unit with a pressurized flush. I know it I s only good for a few flushes before you have to repump but t g at shoukd be fine. Thanks to everyone for their input. Mt continuing education continues. Centerline, I'll send you a PM for your guidance on dumping. Just to let folks know I am familiar with the process due to owning an RV. So I know about waste tanks, etc. Well, it looks like another decision almost made . Now for Camping world or Wally World where ever I can get the best price on a good unit.

 

[John23883]

We have a Dometic porta-potty which can also be an MSD. 99% of the time it is just that, a porta-potty. But, when we go to Canada I connect the hoses for pump-out. Once home I remove the hoses and go back to straight porta-potty. Having the option to do both is worth it.

 

[centerline]

Wow. It seems I may have hit a nerve here.

The nerve..... is when someone cant see outside of their own little world, and that others outside of it may have different needs.... and disagreeing that there is any reason at all to diviate from what they recommend... its a very narrow minded view in such a diverse world...

 

[sesmith]

Greengas,
I don't think anyone else mentioned it, but if your boat travels take you anywhere on the Great Lakes in Ontario, local rules there require a "permanently installed" MSD with pumpout. Other than that consideration, for occasional use, I'd just go with a small porta potti, unless your needs dictate the need for something more elaborate or larger. For us, a composter made a lot of sense in our current boat, so I installed a C-head, but have used small porta potties in previous boats. I don't love them but they work, and for kids, maybe the easiest solution. I've also used wag-bag setups, but again, for kids, I think the porta-potty would be easiest and less trouble to get the kids to use.

 

[Greengas]

Thanks for that info. So, whats a C-head? I understand head is toilet so is the c for connected?