I am looking at several Mac 25s. Please respond with ANYTHING I should be alerted to in this line. Thanks!
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Send me your e-mail address.
Send your e-mail address to mtnpilotdiver@msn.com and I'll tell you what limited information I've learned about the Venture and MacGregor models. No sense boring everybody else here who have already heard it all. Doug
Send your e-mail address to mtnpilotdiver@msn.com and I'll tell you what limited information I've learned about the Venture and MacGregor models. No sense boring everybody else here who have already heard it all. Doug
She grows on me, Mac 25, 1980
I would like to here the response from mtnpilotdiver@msn.com. I have a Mac 25, 1980, just got her this year. My intentions were to upgrade next season but the boat sails so well, she is growing on me. I got lucky and found a great deal on new sails and the prior owners really cared for her. the chin plates even stay dry with the sealant. Check the keel, pivot bolt and dryness of the bilge. Give the hull a good inspection, also the rudder, especially the trailer. Mac 25's sail well, even on windy days, a little haywire in some areas but the price is right and look around, you see lots of old Mac's still doing well. It is not the age, but the condition of the boat, they require yearly care. There are better quality boats but for lake sailing, my Mac really serves the purpose.
I would like to here the response from mtnpilotdiver@msn.com. I have a Mac 25, 1980, just got her this year. My intentions were to upgrade next season but the boat sails so well, she is growing on me. I got lucky and found a great deal on new sails and the prior owners really cared for her. the chin plates even stay dry with the sealant. Check the keel, pivot bolt and dryness of the bilge. Give the hull a good inspection, also the rudder, especially the trailer. Mac 25's sail well, even on windy days, a little haywire in some areas but the price is right and look around, you see lots of old Mac's still doing well. It is not the age, but the condition of the boat, they require yearly care. There are better quality boats but for lake sailing, my Mac really serves the purpose.
Some of what I've discovered...
The keel cable wears a notch into the right side of the trunk corner. Cause?...poor design. Look under the boat to see what I mean. The notch will occasionally have to be re-epoxied to keep the water from infiltrating the fiberglass. If the boat was kept moored in the water, especially rough water where the boat was constantly in motion, check the wear of the keel pivot hole in the cast iron keel. With the boat on the trailer, can you rock that keel left and right? How much? The previous owner of my 25 kept the boat moored in the ocean for 8 months. The hole in the keel is excessively worn. Even with a new pivot bolt the keel is loose. If my boat is sailed with the keel cable still under tension, the keel will clunk against the trunk. The clunk disappears if I allow the keel to rest it's weight against the locking bolt. First priority for the next major repair is to drop the keel and have a bushing fabricated and pressed into the hole position. What is the condition of the keel cable? Mine looked like a porcupine! It could really ruin your day if that cable broke and the iron keel slammed down full-force against the stop. When replacing the cable, the iron keel is so thick that I was unable to use a pin-punch to hammer the bolt out. I had to drill it out by hand and that was no fun! I installed a new bolt so that the cable went to the nut end. No problem so far. Easier to just remove the lock nut than to have to drill-out yet another bolt in the future. What is the condition of the keel cable winch? You may want to install a new one at the same time you do the cable replacement, if necessary. Any serious cracks in the deck fiberglass? Notice any water leaks inside the cabin? How are the cushions? The cushions are very expensive to replace. Save big bucks by having new ones made at a regular upholstery shop, not at a boat shop. I was given an estimate of $1,100 just for new cushion covers! To replace one zipper and fabricate a cover for one dinette cushion..$256! Yet somewhere else on the internet was someone who had all thicker new cushions made for his Mac 25 at a regular upholstery shop for less than $600, and the photos looked great too! Anything else on the boat to be concerned about applies to all other boats: The obvious......rigging, damage, corrosion, etc. etc. Also, the slide-out "galley" shouldn't add any value to the boat. It's design makes the "galley" worthless for practical use. By sliding the "galley" overboard, you will then have more useable storage space under the left cockpit floor.
The keel cable wears a notch into the right side of the trunk corner. Cause?...poor design. Look under the boat to see what I mean. The notch will occasionally have to be re-epoxied to keep the water from infiltrating the fiberglass. If the boat was kept moored in the water, especially rough water where the boat was constantly in motion, check the wear of the keel pivot hole in the cast iron keel. With the boat on the trailer, can you rock that keel left and right? How much? The previous owner of my 25 kept the boat moored in the ocean for 8 months. The hole in the keel is excessively worn. Even with a new pivot bolt the keel is loose. If my boat is sailed with the keel cable still under tension, the keel will clunk against the trunk. The clunk disappears if I allow the keel to rest it's weight against the locking bolt. First priority for the next major repair is to drop the keel and have a bushing fabricated and pressed into the hole position. What is the condition of the keel cable? Mine looked like a porcupine! It could really ruin your day if that cable broke and the iron keel slammed down full-force against the stop. When replacing the cable, the iron keel is so thick that I was unable to use a pin-punch to hammer the bolt out. I had to drill it out by hand and that was no fun! I installed a new bolt so that the cable went to the nut end. No problem so far. Easier to just remove the lock nut than to have to drill-out yet another bolt in the future. What is the condition of the keel cable winch? You may want to install a new one at the same time you do the cable replacement, if necessary. Any serious cracks in the deck fiberglass? Notice any water leaks inside the cabin? How are the cushions? The cushions are very expensive to replace. Save big bucks by having new ones made at a regular upholstery shop, not at a boat shop. I was given an estimate of $1,100 just for new cushion covers! To replace one zipper and fabricate a cover for one dinette cushion..$256! Yet somewhere else on the internet was someone who had all thicker new cushions made for his Mac 25 at a regular upholstery shop for less than $600, and the photos looked great too! Anything else on the boat to be concerned about applies to all other boats: The obvious......rigging, damage, corrosion, etc. etc. Also, the slide-out "galley" shouldn't add any value to the boat. It's design makes the "galley" worthless for practical use. By sliding the "galley" overboard, you will then have more useable storage space under the left cockpit floor.
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Good reponse on the keel
Hi Doug, that was a great response. My Mac has always been in fresh water, normally moored. The pivot bolt and cable have been replaced and the bilge actually stays dry. Luck may be on my shoulder! Bad design or just saving costs have made the keel on Macs a proverbial problem, read the fourm and this is apparent. This year when I pull for the year, I plan on having the boat raised, keel sanded and refurbished. My estimate is around 300. but it beats fooling around with the mess of raising the boat on my own. I like to tinker but without proper equippment this can me a major pain. I love my Mac, but the thought of trading on a Rhodes or Precision is tempting. Macs are a bit haywire with these little problems that normally do not occur on other boats, especially in the keel, cleat areas. I have had the cushions redone much cheaper than what you describe, the wife and friends have been a great help. We don't camp on the boat often, so the great replacement of softness is probably wasted. If one wants to sleep over for extended periods the Mac is not the boat to own. Still love sailing the boat, she just won't quit keeping me happy. Some times I think she t requires a bit too much upkeep, " in the keel area". This forum is filled with keel problems that seems to be the proverbial problem with Macs. We are going to the Annapolis boat show, looking at Rhodes and Precision models. Still like the Mac, " she has ben good to me, stay in touch with any tips, early1950@attbi.com ESK II
Hi Doug, that was a great response. My Mac has always been in fresh water, normally moored. The pivot bolt and cable have been replaced and the bilge actually stays dry. Luck may be on my shoulder! Bad design or just saving costs have made the keel on Macs a proverbial problem, read the fourm and this is apparent. This year when I pull for the year, I plan on having the boat raised, keel sanded and refurbished. My estimate is around 300. but it beats fooling around with the mess of raising the boat on my own. I like to tinker but without proper equippment this can me a major pain. I love my Mac, but the thought of trading on a Rhodes or Precision is tempting. Macs are a bit haywire with these little problems that normally do not occur on other boats, especially in the keel, cleat areas. I have had the cushions redone much cheaper than what you describe, the wife and friends have been a great help. We don't camp on the boat often, so the great replacement of softness is probably wasted. If one wants to sleep over for extended periods the Mac is not the boat to own. Still love sailing the boat, she just won't quit keeping me happy. Some times I think she t requires a bit too much upkeep, " in the keel area". This forum is filled with keel problems that seems to be the proverbial problem with Macs. We are going to the Annapolis boat show, looking at Rhodes and Precision models. Still like the Mac, " she has ben good to me, stay in touch with any tips, early1950@attbi.com ESK II
What the factory should have done....
Yup, the factory should have offset the keel cable hole a couple of inches to the right side of the trunk. That hole should have been in line with where the cable actually attached to the iron keel. Maybe it's possible to adapt a stainless steel strap onto the keel bolt and attach the cable to be centered over the iron keel instead of sawing the cable into the fiberglass during full retraction? Ahhhh...too much trouble. That's what the designer probably thought too.
Yup, the factory should have offset the keel cable hole a couple of inches to the right side of the trunk. That hole should have been in line with where the cable actually attached to the iron keel. Maybe it's possible to adapt a stainless steel strap onto the keel bolt and attach the cable to be centered over the iron keel instead of sawing the cable into the fiberglass during full retraction? Ahhhh...too much trouble. That's what the designer probably thought too.
My standard 25 checklist
Here is my standard checklist for Mac or Venture 25's. The boat is made up of systems. Check each one carefully. 1 Standing rigging, check for frayed cables, loose or worn fittings, corrosion around compression fittings, frozen turn buckles etc. 2 Spars, check mast and boom for straightness, freedom from corrosion, are attachment holes worn over large, are all attachments tight, check the mast head to be sure the halyard sheaves are in good condition and that the halyards will run freely. 3 Sails, Check for chaffing wear, is the cloth old and weak, is there wear where the cloth wraps around the head rope. Are the snaps for the jib corroded solid or are they easy to open and close. You might have to take that sail down quickly sometime. 4 Running rigging, are the sheets in good shape, if not this is not too expensive to cure. How about the fairleads, deck eyes, locking cams and cleats, are they all there, working and solidly mounted? 5 Hull, Check both out of and in the water. Is there evidence of major repair, any bulges, bumps or uneven areas? Are there any cracks or other signs of stress or improper trailering? Are all attachments tight and solid? 6 Deck, cockpit and cabin. Are all components solid and fit, are there cracks or signs of delamination. are the portlights sound and leak free, Does the companionway, pop top, fore hatch all seem OK? Are all interior fixtures there, table, cushions and so forth? 7 Electrical. What condition are the running, anchor and masthead lights in? Is the wiring corrosion free? How old is the battery and does it have a charging system? Check the fuses in the distribution panel, are they corroded into the fuse holders? Is there a cabin light and does it work? 8 Keel and Winch. How badly rusted is the keel, it is almost always rusted but how bad? Check the keel winch for proper operation and the cable for frayed areas. With the boat in the water does the pivot bolt leak. 9 Other component parts. Check the rudder, is it heavy, if so it is probably waterlogged. Check to make sure it has all parts (ie. tiller) and that the gudgeons and pintles are straight and mounted solid. Check the outboard motor mount, does it still have a working lift spring and does it raise and lower easily with the motor mounted. Check the porta potty if so equipped. When was the last time that thing was emptied???? Finally, Check the boat rigged and in the water. Does she sit straight or list to one side? If so is it because of improper stowage or a heavy side due to a major repair. Does the the mast stand fair and straight or skew to one side, if so is it rigging adjustments. DOES IT LEAK? Check the bilge for signs of leakage, I would personally avoid a boat that has a high water mark in the bilge. Check to see that all the little things are there, anchor, compass, boathook, dock lines, fenders, bilge pump or bucket, Coast Guard required flares, PFD's as required by law. All these little thing are going to add up to quite an unexpected bill. Yeah, it's a lot to check but when you’re out there, EVERYTHING is safety related. Happy Sails To You, Mike
Here is my standard checklist for Mac or Venture 25's. The boat is made up of systems. Check each one carefully. 1 Standing rigging, check for frayed cables, loose or worn fittings, corrosion around compression fittings, frozen turn buckles etc. 2 Spars, check mast and boom for straightness, freedom from corrosion, are attachment holes worn over large, are all attachments tight, check the mast head to be sure the halyard sheaves are in good condition and that the halyards will run freely. 3 Sails, Check for chaffing wear, is the cloth old and weak, is there wear where the cloth wraps around the head rope. Are the snaps for the jib corroded solid or are they easy to open and close. You might have to take that sail down quickly sometime. 4 Running rigging, are the sheets in good shape, if not this is not too expensive to cure. How about the fairleads, deck eyes, locking cams and cleats, are they all there, working and solidly mounted? 5 Hull, Check both out of and in the water. Is there evidence of major repair, any bulges, bumps or uneven areas? Are there any cracks or other signs of stress or improper trailering? Are all attachments tight and solid? 6 Deck, cockpit and cabin. Are all components solid and fit, are there cracks or signs of delamination. are the portlights sound and leak free, Does the companionway, pop top, fore hatch all seem OK? Are all interior fixtures there, table, cushions and so forth? 7 Electrical. What condition are the running, anchor and masthead lights in? Is the wiring corrosion free? How old is the battery and does it have a charging system? Check the fuses in the distribution panel, are they corroded into the fuse holders? Is there a cabin light and does it work? 8 Keel and Winch. How badly rusted is the keel, it is almost always rusted but how bad? Check the keel winch for proper operation and the cable for frayed areas. With the boat in the water does the pivot bolt leak. 9 Other component parts. Check the rudder, is it heavy, if so it is probably waterlogged. Check to make sure it has all parts (ie. tiller) and that the gudgeons and pintles are straight and mounted solid. Check the outboard motor mount, does it still have a working lift spring and does it raise and lower easily with the motor mounted. Check the porta potty if so equipped. When was the last time that thing was emptied???? Finally, Check the boat rigged and in the water. Does she sit straight or list to one side? If so is it because of improper stowage or a heavy side due to a major repair. Does the the mast stand fair and straight or skew to one side, if so is it rigging adjustments. DOES IT LEAK? Check the bilge for signs of leakage, I would personally avoid a boat that has a high water mark in the bilge. Check to see that all the little things are there, anchor, compass, boathook, dock lines, fenders, bilge pump or bucket, Coast Guard required flares, PFD's as required by law. All these little thing are going to add up to quite an unexpected bill. Yeah, it's a lot to check but when you’re out there, EVERYTHING is safety related. Happy Sails To You, Mike
Looking at one...
I am fairly new to sailboats- although a previous powerboater and merchant marine (engineer). I know the hull basics and machinery end- but appreciate the "checklist" posting. I am looking at a 25 Mac - '83 vintage. Painted trailer (although galvanized)- new sails (2 sets) and brand new interior. Going to take a look soon- but broker indicates weakest point is trailer although it is still road worthy. Finally my question- is a Mac 25 considered a good starter? Wanting something "trailerable and weekendable"- so think a daysailer will easily be outgrown. Also does anyone regularly trailer these boats? how are they to rig at the ramp? Any advice is appreciated.
I am fairly new to sailboats- although a previous powerboater and merchant marine (engineer). I know the hull basics and machinery end- but appreciate the "checklist" posting. I am looking at a 25 Mac - '83 vintage. Painted trailer (although galvanized)- new sails (2 sets) and brand new interior. Going to take a look soon- but broker indicates weakest point is trailer although it is still road worthy. Finally my question- is a Mac 25 considered a good starter? Wanting something "trailerable and weekendable"- so think a daysailer will easily be outgrown. Also does anyone regularly trailer these boats? how are they to rig at the ramp? Any advice is appreciated.
Attenton Dave
Dave, I have a Mac25 that we trailer all the time. I pull it with a full size Chevy Blazer. My wife and I can rig and launch it it 30 minutes. We have slept on it quite a bit, we both fit in the V-birth. I am 5'8 she is shorter. I think its a great starter boat and for what we use it for one of the best choices. We sail on some large inland lakes and even one small lake with a shallow ramp. We launch and retreive it with no problems.
Dave, I have a Mac25 that we trailer all the time. I pull it with a full size Chevy Blazer. My wife and I can rig and launch it it 30 minutes. We have slept on it quite a bit, we both fit in the V-birth. I am 5'8 she is shorter. I think its a great starter boat and for what we use it for one of the best choices. We sail on some large inland lakes and even one small lake with a shallow ramp. We launch and retreive it with no problems.
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