Okay, it would seem I was a little hasty in announcing my new purchase: I have made the offer in good faith, and was reasonable. The owner cannot find his registration for the boat, but is still looking, and there is no HIN number to be found on the vessel. Now, not that I am paranoid, but I refuse to purchase anything without the proper paperwork. My question is, is the bill of sale good enough? I don't want the guy to come back at me in a year after I've poured all kinds of money and time into this, only to be told that its his boat, cause I don't have the ownership. Worse, the boat turns out to be stolen. Now there is a license number on the bow, starting with 50E (registered in Toronto), but after talking with the Toronto Police Marine unit, I was advised that that number isn't used for tracing. And although the officer did do a search with the information that I gave him, which turned up nothing doesn't mean its on the up and up. Is it okay to only have the registration, and not the actual HIN number? Is the HIN written on the registration for the vessel license? TIA Dwayne
Buying a boat, the legal side
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Look elsewhere
I don't know anything about Canadian laws, but it sounds like at best this could be a nightmare to get straightened out. Here there are procedures for acquiring a lost title, but it ain't an easy process, and only the current registered owner can get a lost title. If it were me, I would just look for another boat and let this one go.
I don't know anything about Canadian laws, but it sounds like at best this could be a nightmare to get straightened out. Here there are procedures for acquiring a lost title, but it ain't an easy process, and only the current registered owner can get a lost title. If it were me, I would just look for another boat and let this one go.
Who's the owner?
How do you KNOW that the seller actually owns the boat? Even he does produce a title, the title will likely reference a HIN. Where is the boat that corresponds to the HIN?
How do you KNOW that the seller actually owns the boat? Even he does produce a title, the title will likely reference a HIN. Where is the boat that corresponds to the HIN?
Hunter Identification
Can't speak for all Hunters, but the identification number is clearly stamped into the transom on my H23. The format is H233350586 which in my case means Hunter 23, Hull number 335, manufactured May, 1986. With no number on the boat, it may not be a Hunter. If he can't give you a title with that reference, stay away.
Can't speak for all Hunters, but the identification number is clearly stamped into the transom on my H23. The format is H233350586 which in my case means Hunter 23, Hull number 335, manufactured May, 1986. With no number on the boat, it may not be a Hunter. If he can't give you a title with that reference, stay away.
Notary Public
If you're willing to spend some dollars, or have it deducted from the purchase price, maybe a trip to a Notary Public will easy your worries.
If you're willing to spend some dollars, or have it deducted from the purchase price, maybe a trip to a Notary Public will easy your worries.
Title not Registration
I'm no lawyer, but I've seen a bunch of 'em on TV for years.... The vessel's Title is what you are looking for - the piece of paper that proves ownership of the vessel. The registration simply reflects who paid the fees for it - In Washington for example, the registration says very clearly "Not Proof of Ownership" It's possible that the vessel had a mortgage against it and a bank has the title. As you noted, it's possible that it's stolen. A notary public won't do anything for you except be able to witness that two people who produced identification representing who they were signed whatever the presence of the notary. On many vessels, the HIN is scribed just under the rubrail, on the starboard side of the boat, very near the transom. What kind of boat is this? Good Luck! As the commercial says: "Don't be that guy!" - that buys a boat from a seller who had no right to sell it. Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
I'm no lawyer, but I've seen a bunch of 'em on TV for years.... The vessel's Title is what you are looking for - the piece of paper that proves ownership of the vessel. The registration simply reflects who paid the fees for it - In Washington for example, the registration says very clearly "Not Proof of Ownership" It's possible that the vessel had a mortgage against it and a bank has the title. As you noted, it's possible that it's stolen. A notary public won't do anything for you except be able to witness that two people who produced identification representing who they were signed whatever the presence of the notary. On many vessels, the HIN is scribed just under the rubrail, on the starboard side of the boat, very near the transom. What kind of boat is this? Good Luck! As the commercial says: "Don't be that guy!" - that buys a boat from a seller who had no right to sell it. Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
Title
Tim is right, you need the title not the registration. If you cannot find the title, I would not buy the boat...you do not know to whom the boat belongs. If it is not an ancient boat, it has to have a HIN, if it does not have a HIN, somebody has filed it off...another reason not to buy this boat.
Tim is right, you need the title not the registration. If you cannot find the title, I would not buy the boat...you do not know to whom the boat belongs. If it is not an ancient boat, it has to have a HIN, if it does not have a HIN, somebody has filed it off...another reason not to buy this boat.
boat ID
Dwayne, Mike is correct re:HIN. Can you go to the boat and get the HIN (I beleive it is etched on the starboard side of the transom very close to the rub rail. Then when you have the HIN run it by the Canadian Police and see if it's stolen or no. Good luck! Let us know how it turns out for you.
Dwayne, Mike is correct re:HIN. Can you go to the boat and get the HIN (I beleive it is etched on the starboard side of the transom very close to the rub rail. Then when you have the HIN run it by the Canadian Police and see if it's stolen or no. Good luck! Let us know how it turns out for you.
forgot to add link
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.html All you need to know about hull ID
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.html All you need to know about hull ID
This boat doesn't have one!
Dwayne mentioned this fact a couple of weeks ago. These numbers were required on boats built only after 1972. The Northern 25 that Dwayne is looking at is probably earlier, hence no numbers.
Dwayne mentioned this fact a couple of weeks ago. These numbers were required on boats built only after 1972. The Northern 25 that Dwayne is looking at is probably earlier, hence no numbers.
Don't
Buy a boat ( or anything else) from someone who cannot prove ownership. You cannot sell something you didnt own in the first place. If you want to drop me an email, My wife ( the litigeous side of the household) has some experience in this area. I am in the H34 owners directory
Buy a boat ( or anything else) from someone who cannot prove ownership. You cannot sell something you didnt own in the first place. If you want to drop me an email, My wife ( the litigeous side of the household) has some experience in this area. I am in the H34 owners directory
the title cometh
The title in on its way, happy to report. So, now that that little mess is out of the way, what about hatch covers? I notied the guesket for the fore' hatch is hanging not really sealing anything. I'm going to fix it for now, but I will need to order one with glass or something of the sort.
The title in on its way, happy to report. So, now that that little mess is out of the way, what about hatch covers? I notied the guesket for the fore' hatch is hanging not really sealing anything. I'm going to fix it for now, but I will need to order one with glass or something of the sort.
Registration verses Title
Glad to hear that your title is on it's way. In some states, the registration IS the title, especially when purchasing an oldervintage vehicle or boat. In such an instance the registration will read "Transferable" as in Ownership, and will have a section for signatures of Seller and Buyer on the reverse side of the document. Thank You Clay Amare
Glad to hear that your title is on it's way. In some states, the registration IS the title, especially when purchasing an oldervintage vehicle or boat. In such an instance the registration will read "Transferable" as in Ownership, and will have a section for signatures of Seller and Buyer on the reverse side of the document. Thank You Clay Amare
documentation and no title states
I just bought a used H30 in Mississippi. Had a long discussion wiht my surveyor about titles and documentation. This info is specific to my area - TN, AR, and MS. These states are 'no title' states for boats. We have no titles in this area. This has caused problems here in a couple of different ways. First, we have been the target of thieves, because it's much harder to trace a boat from here. Second, we've had some unscrupulous local boat traders who sold boats they didn't own, pocketed the money, didn't pay off the old loans, and caused the new owners, who had a great bill of sale that said it was free and clear, many headaches. My surveyor's advice is get the boat documented. This in effect serves as clear title, because it requires you to go back to every owner who has ever had the boat, starting with the first dealer and working forward. With a documented boat, you can do searches to look for mortgages/liens against the documentation #. I haven't looked into all the details yet, but in the case of my boat, the documentation process should be fairly easy, since the boat has only had three previous owners - the dealer and two individuals. I can get back to all these folks for the required paperwork. Not sure what you do in the case of an older boat that has changed hands many times, but it might be worth looking into. I think the Coast Guard web site has info on this. Anybody have any experience with this?
I just bought a used H30 in Mississippi. Had a long discussion wiht my surveyor about titles and documentation. This info is specific to my area - TN, AR, and MS. These states are 'no title' states for boats. We have no titles in this area. This has caused problems here in a couple of different ways. First, we have been the target of thieves, because it's much harder to trace a boat from here. Second, we've had some unscrupulous local boat traders who sold boats they didn't own, pocketed the money, didn't pay off the old loans, and caused the new owners, who had a great bill of sale that said it was free and clear, many headaches. My surveyor's advice is get the boat documented. This in effect serves as clear title, because it requires you to go back to every owner who has ever had the boat, starting with the first dealer and working forward. With a documented boat, you can do searches to look for mortgages/liens against the documentation #. I haven't looked into all the details yet, but in the case of my boat, the documentation process should be fairly easy, since the boat has only had three previous owners - the dealer and two individuals. I can get back to all these folks for the required paperwork. Not sure what you do in the case of an older boat that has changed hands many times, but it might be worth looking into. I think the Coast Guard web site has info on this. Anybody have any experience with this?
STOP!!! Walk away!!
I went through a similar situation a little while ago only my boat had the HIN and someone else cloned my boat for a boat with out a HIN. The long story short is that the person who had bought the other boat, gotten the title, and registered it all of the sudden had the registration revoked and god only know’s what they are going through to get it fixed. The scarry part is that they worked through this when the person bought the boat and the RMV cleared it and issued a title without the HIN on the boat…. Then once the boat that had the same HIN showed up, their boat went from legit to possibly stolen property. Bottom line is, without the HIN you are taking a big risk. I would still consider it but I would make sure you know what you are getting into and make sure you are getting the boat for a song. I’d also get the environmental police involved ASAP… Good luck!
I went through a similar situation a little while ago only my boat had the HIN and someone else cloned my boat for a boat with out a HIN. The long story short is that the person who had bought the other boat, gotten the title, and registered it all of the sudden had the registration revoked and god only know’s what they are going through to get it fixed. The scarry part is that they worked through this when the person bought the boat and the RMV cleared it and issued a title without the HIN on the boat…. Then once the boat that had the same HIN showed up, their boat went from legit to possibly stolen property. Bottom line is, without the HIN you are taking a big risk. I would still consider it but I would make sure you know what you are getting into and make sure you are getting the boat for a song. I’d also get the environmental police involved ASAP… Good luck!
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