I have a 1986 H-34. Last spring prior to launching I noticed a bulge on one side of the rudder. Its about 2/3 of the way up on the port side, roughly the size of a football and bulging out a little less than an inch or so. At the time I assumed it was from water under the skin that had frozen. I didn't think it was a major problem at the time. However, this winter I have heard stories of water rusting the the post. How can I determine the severity of the problem without a major rudder rebuild? I haven't out to the boat yet this spring to see if there are any further problems Any suggestions would be appreciated, and I'm looking forward to reading all of the post in this guest forum. Thanks, Mike
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
T
Tim McCarty
Know how you feel
If it makes you feel any better, I've had the same football sized bulge in my rudder since I purchased my '82 Hunter 272 in '95. Other than cosmetic concerns, it hasn't changed. I believe that water seeped into the rudder through the top of the (hollow) rudder post (up where the emergency rudder is connected. I now tape over it to keep the rain out. I imagine that I will need to either drill a hole, let it drain and dry, and inject it with epoxy OR drop the rudder and have it reglassed (which I am reluctant to do due to the expense. I have to say though that I've had no trouble other than people warning me that my rudder will eventually disintegrate. Hope this sheds some light on your problem.
If it makes you feel any better, I've had the same football sized bulge in my rudder since I purchased my '82 Hunter 272 in '95. Other than cosmetic concerns, it hasn't changed. I believe that water seeped into the rudder through the top of the (hollow) rudder post (up where the emergency rudder is connected. I now tape over it to keep the rain out. I imagine that I will need to either drill a hole, let it drain and dry, and inject it with epoxy OR drop the rudder and have it reglassed (which I am reluctant to do due to the expense. I have to say though that I've had no trouble other than people warning me that my rudder will eventually disintegrate. Hope this sheds some light on your problem.
B
Bil Thomas Feng Shui
Rudder Repair
I have a '88 335 which had a bulge on the port side that ran 2/3 the length of the rudder. The foam is covered with glass mat and it just seperated from the foam. While the boat is in dry dock for the the winter I cut the buldge out and ground the skin back until a solid contact between the skin and core was found. Then let it dry. After drying I came back and rebuilt the area back up to the orginal contour using expoy and glass weave. Faired it back and then sealed the area and repainted. Additionally, the leading edge was splitting. This was repaired at the same time using glass tape overlapping the leading edge an flowing to either side. I used 3 layers of the tape/expoy to create a new leading edge. It is not difficult nor very expensive. When the boat was hauled this year the rudder looked like new.
I have a '88 335 which had a bulge on the port side that ran 2/3 the length of the rudder. The foam is covered with glass mat and it just seperated from the foam. While the boat is in dry dock for the the winter I cut the buldge out and ground the skin back until a solid contact between the skin and core was found. Then let it dry. After drying I came back and rebuilt the area back up to the orginal contour using expoy and glass weave. Faired it back and then sealed the area and repainted. Additionally, the leading edge was splitting. This was repaired at the same time using glass tape overlapping the leading edge an flowing to either side. I used 3 layers of the tape/expoy to create a new leading edge. It is not difficult nor very expensive. When the boat was hauled this year the rudder looked like new.
A
Al Walker
How to Repair
Mike, Bill's advise is solid. Here are a few things to consider. If water gets down the tube/shaft and freezes it can bust out through the side. This can cause a bulge like you described. In 1990 we started foaming inside the shaft to prevent this problem. I would recommend that anyone with an earlier model take steps to fill the shaft. Most of the time a bulge is caused from a simple delamination of the skin from the foam. It is best to cut away the delaminated area, let it dry, and glass over it. The Foss Foam under the skin is white as snow. If what you run into is not white, sand or grind it away until it is white. Also look for cracks or fractures in the foam. This may indicate a bigger problem. You should not have to grind away more than 1/4 of an inch of foam to get to the good stuff. If you do that may be a sign of a bigger problem. I hope that I answered your problem. I'm sorry if I rambeled on too much. Sincerely, Al Walker Foss Foam
Mike, Bill's advise is solid. Here are a few things to consider. If water gets down the tube/shaft and freezes it can bust out through the side. This can cause a bulge like you described. In 1990 we started foaming inside the shaft to prevent this problem. I would recommend that anyone with an earlier model take steps to fill the shaft. Most of the time a bulge is caused from a simple delamination of the skin from the foam. It is best to cut away the delaminated area, let it dry, and glass over it. The Foss Foam under the skin is white as snow. If what you run into is not white, sand or grind it away until it is white. Also look for cracks or fractures in the foam. This may indicate a bigger problem. You should not have to grind away more than 1/4 of an inch of foam to get to the good stuff. If you do that may be a sign of a bigger problem. I hope that I answered your problem. I'm sorry if I rambeled on too much. Sincerely, Al Walker Foss Foam
M
Mike Ross
Follow up Question
First of all, Thanks Al and Bill for your help. But of course I still have some questions: Al, is filling the tube with foam something I can do, or does it require a profesional? When the skin is removed, will it be obvious if the bulge was caused by the by damage to the tube? If I remove the skin and the foam is clean and white, is there any reason to dig deeper to inspect the tube and the pieces welded to the tube (I don't know what these are called)? How stupid would I be to put off this repair another year? I may be facing some serious work related time constraints this spring? What should I do to try and prevent this in the future? I have read your suggestion of wrapping the rudder with white plastic when hauled, and will be doing this in the future. Thanks again. And Al, please don't worry about rambing on, as obviously I didn't. Mike
First of all, Thanks Al and Bill for your help. But of course I still have some questions: Al, is filling the tube with foam something I can do, or does it require a profesional? When the skin is removed, will it be obvious if the bulge was caused by the by damage to the tube? If I remove the skin and the foam is clean and white, is there any reason to dig deeper to inspect the tube and the pieces welded to the tube (I don't know what these are called)? How stupid would I be to put off this repair another year? I may be facing some serious work related time constraints this spring? What should I do to try and prevent this in the future? I have read your suggestion of wrapping the rudder with white plastic when hauled, and will be doing this in the future. Thanks again. And Al, please don't worry about rambing on, as obviously I didn't. Mike
A
Al Walker
Some things to consider
Mike, I'm not sure what materials are available to you to seal the shaft. Make sure that the inside of the tube is dry especially if you use foam. Water is one of the blowing agents in foam. A few extra drops can change foam into mush. Have you checked to see if there is any material in your shaft? I realize that you are limited in time. Your problem if unrepaired will only get worse. The problem is that saturated foam may not dry out enough for fiberglass to bond to it. In a year you may be looking at replacing your rudder. When you remove the skin you should be able to see a fracture in the foam caused by a freeze. If the foam is white there is no need to go further. Just make sure that it is dry before you glass it. Covering your rudder will prevent this type of problem from occuring in the future. Thanks again for your questions. Al Walker Foss Foam
Mike, I'm not sure what materials are available to you to seal the shaft. Make sure that the inside of the tube is dry especially if you use foam. Water is one of the blowing agents in foam. A few extra drops can change foam into mush. Have you checked to see if there is any material in your shaft? I realize that you are limited in time. Your problem if unrepaired will only get worse. The problem is that saturated foam may not dry out enough for fiberglass to bond to it. In a year you may be looking at replacing your rudder. When you remove the skin you should be able to see a fracture in the foam caused by a freeze. If the foam is white there is no need to go further. Just make sure that it is dry before you glass it. Covering your rudder will prevent this type of problem from occuring in the future. Thanks again for your questions. Al Walker Foss Foam
T
Tim McCarty
After reading Al's response...
I'm guessing that I'm going to have to drop the rudder and have it repaired. I'm hoping to get one more season in though. Glass work is an art. One of my epoxy customers (I sell epoxy) is Gougeon Bros. (otherwise known as West Systems) and, after several discussions with their people (very helpful too), I've decided that I'm going to have to spend the $1000.00(or more) and have the rudder re-glassed. I know that if I tried it, it would look like hell. It all sounds easy grinding down the bulge and letting it dry, however, my boat sits outside and is open to mother nature. From what I've been told, it takes weeks to dry out...
I'm guessing that I'm going to have to drop the rudder and have it repaired. I'm hoping to get one more season in though. Glass work is an art. One of my epoxy customers (I sell epoxy) is Gougeon Bros. (otherwise known as West Systems) and, after several discussions with their people (very helpful too), I've decided that I'm going to have to spend the $1000.00(or more) and have the rudder re-glassed. I know that if I tried it, it would look like hell. It all sounds easy grinding down the bulge and letting it dry, however, my boat sits outside and is open to mother nature. From what I've been told, it takes weeks to dry out...
A
Al Walker
New rudder for $747.00
Tim, The price of a new rudder for a Hunter 27 (late 70 early 80's model) is $747.00 plus shipping. Fiberglass work is an art but... Al Walker Foss Foam
Tim, The price of a new rudder for a Hunter 27 (late 70 early 80's model) is $747.00 plus shipping. Fiberglass work is an art but... Al Walker Foss Foam
T
Tim McCarty
Al, give me specifics...
Al, that's not bad. I'm going to talk to a glass guy about the repair, however, give me address, phone, website info. for Foss Foam. I may go that route for next year. Very interesting. Thanks for the response.
Al, that's not bad. I'm going to talk to a glass guy about the repair, however, give me address, phone, website info. for Foss Foam. I may go that route for next year. Very interesting. Thanks for the response.
A
Al Walker
Info
Tim, You can reach us at Foss Foam Products, 7060 HWY 41 North, Williston, Fl. 32696, 352-529-1104, or www.newrudders.com. Thanks for your reply, Al Walker Foss Foam
Tim, You can reach us at Foss Foam Products, 7060 HWY 41 North, Williston, Fl. 32696, 352-529-1104, or www.newrudders.com. Thanks for your reply, Al Walker Foss Foam
- Status
- Not open for further replies.