I have a 1978 cat 25 and her swing keel cable is broken. can anyone tell me what size I need, the length and how to attach it? The boat is new to me so I am not sure on any of this stuff. so I would be very greatful for any information on this matter. thank you.
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Swing Keel Cables
The best place to get a replacement cable for your C25 is from the Catalina factory in Woodland Hills CA. Call 818-884-7700 for details. Ask for Parts. They work from a faxed order. Another excellent source for your cable is Catalina Direct, a specialist in C22 and C25 boat parts. You can contact them on the web at <http://www.catalinadirect.com/>. Finally, check out the message board for the C25/C250 National Association <http://www.catalina25-250.org/> There is lots of great info there. Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839
The best place to get a replacement cable for your C25 is from the Catalina factory in Woodland Hills CA. Call 818-884-7700 for details. Ask for Parts. They work from a faxed order. Another excellent source for your cable is Catalina Direct, a specialist in C22 and C25 boat parts. You can contact them on the web at <http://www.catalinadirect.com/>. Finally, check out the message board for the C25/C250 National Association <http://www.catalina25-250.org/> There is lots of great info there. Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839
not enough time
I wish I had the time to wait on a cable to get here from catalina but Idon't the boat is in the water, and everytime th tide goes out she leans a bit. SO I need to get it fixed asap. But thank you for the information, because I know there are otherthings that I need and I know catalina will be the best bet to deal with. Again thank you
I wish I had the time to wait on a cable to get here from catalina but Idon't the boat is in the water, and everytime th tide goes out she leans a bit. SO I need to get it fixed asap. But thank you for the information, because I know there are otherthings that I need and I know catalina will be the best bet to deal with. Again thank you
Broken keel cable
RN; Unless you want to get wet, you'll have to get the boat out of the water. If the water is warm or you have a wet suit, get a couple of galvanized bulldog clamps, put a loop of cable around the attachment point and put the clamps on. Hard to do underwater. Maybe you could take the cable out of the tube, drop a line with a shackle on it down the tube, attach shackle to keel, lead the line to your cable winch or to another winch on the boat. When the fitting on my keel cable failed, it was a real struggle to get the boat back onto the trailer.
RN; Unless you want to get wet, you'll have to get the boat out of the water. If the water is warm or you have a wet suit, get a couple of galvanized bulldog clamps, put a loop of cable around the attachment point and put the clamps on. Hard to do underwater. Maybe you could take the cable out of the tube, drop a line with a shackle on it down the tube, attach shackle to keel, lead the line to your cable winch or to another winch on the boat. When the fitting on my keel cable failed, it was a real struggle to get the boat back onto the trailer.
Cable Info
Specifically, the keel cable is 7X19, 1/4" cable that is 10 feet long. If bought from Catalina Yachts or Catalina Direct, it has a swedged fitting on the keel end that attaches the cable to the keel with a clevis pin. If you are working under water, you might get by in the short run with a loop in the cable and a shackle. I wouldn't rely on this much more than short term though. Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839
Specifically, the keel cable is 7X19, 1/4" cable that is 10 feet long. If bought from Catalina Yachts or Catalina Direct, it has a swedged fitting on the keel end that attaches the cable to the keel with a clevis pin. If you are working under water, you might get by in the short run with a loop in the cable and a shackle. I wouldn't rely on this much more than short term though. Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839
question for you Bill
Can I use a 7/32 cable instead wit ha loop and a thimble?. All the locals that have swingers say it is the easiest way to go, and if it breaks again they say you can just dive dowan and replace the thimble again. local sailing school owner (friends of mine) say that that is what they use on there catalina 22 and have had it on for three years with out a problem.
Can I use a 7/32 cable instead wit ha loop and a thimble?. All the locals that have swingers say it is the easiest way to go, and if it breaks again they say you can just dive dowan and replace the thimble again. local sailing school owner (friends of mine) say that that is what they use on there catalina 22 and have had it on for three years with out a problem.
Response to Question
The easy answer is yes. The more thorough answer is yes, but do you really want to? First, your swing keel weighs 1,500 lbs and if the loop 'n thimble come undone, your keel will swing with more than enough energy to break your keel trunk and sink the boat. There have been too many examples of this over the years......and one of the reasons that Catalina came out with a wing keel retro-fit kit in 1985. Second, the keel slot at the aft end of the trunk is narrow enough that if the thimble and swedged fittings flop over, you will certainly damage the keel trunk to hull joint with leaking results. This happened to a close friend of mine, and led to him retro-fitting one of the wing keel kits. Third, having a thimble and loop will not prevent the cable from parting...........again, with potentially disasterous results. Catalina Yachts and Catalina Direct have factory parts that are made for your boat. One of the nice things about having an older boat where the manufacturer still is in business and will take care of you. So, I would have Catalina Direct FedEx the right cable ASAP. Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839 PS - Again, check out the C25/C250 National Association website. There is a ton of great information there and a very active forum message board where you should be able to get great answers and advice quickly. http://www.catalina25-250.org/
The easy answer is yes. The more thorough answer is yes, but do you really want to? First, your swing keel weighs 1,500 lbs and if the loop 'n thimble come undone, your keel will swing with more than enough energy to break your keel trunk and sink the boat. There have been too many examples of this over the years......and one of the reasons that Catalina came out with a wing keel retro-fit kit in 1985. Second, the keel slot at the aft end of the trunk is narrow enough that if the thimble and swedged fittings flop over, you will certainly damage the keel trunk to hull joint with leaking results. This happened to a close friend of mine, and led to him retro-fitting one of the wing keel kits. Third, having a thimble and loop will not prevent the cable from parting...........again, with potentially disasterous results. Catalina Yachts and Catalina Direct have factory parts that are made for your boat. One of the nice things about having an older boat where the manufacturer still is in business and will take care of you. So, I would have Catalina Direct FedEx the right cable ASAP. Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839 PS - Again, check out the C25/C250 National Association website. There is a ton of great information there and a very active forum message board where you should be able to get great answers and advice quickly. http://www.catalina25-250.org/
Another question for you Bill
I am just looking to lift the keel until the new cable arrives. I can not keep it where it is. the water at my house is under 4 foot so I need to be able to get it in very soon. What is this kit you talked about? the cable that I am going to use is 7/32 not much smaller than the 1/4 inch that Catalina used. Even if the cable broke it would hit mud before it could damage the keel trunk.... thanks for any info again .
I am just looking to lift the keel until the new cable arrives. I can not keep it where it is. the water at my house is under 4 foot so I need to be able to get it in very soon. What is this kit you talked about? the cable that I am going to use is 7/32 not much smaller than the 1/4 inch that Catalina used. Even if the cable broke it would hit mud before it could damage the keel trunk.... thanks for any info again .
Wing Keel Retro-Fit Kit
In 1986 the swing keel version of the C25 was replaced with a fixed wing keel. The wing was/is permanently attached and immovable. It draws only 2'10" (only 2" more than your swing when retracted). The wing keel weighs 1,750 lbs (so more than your swing keel). The reported sailing characteristics of a wing keel version - compared to a swing keel version - is that the wing keel boat is more stable and less tender, while not pointing quite as high for upwind sailing - has better off wind speed. When the wing keel version was introduced, Frank Butler and the rest of the Catalina Yachts management felt that there might be a demand for a conversion from the swing keel like you have to a fixed wing keel like the new boats. This has proved to be true with many owners of swing keel boats installing the wing keel retro-fit. The retro-fit is a complete keel that bolts to the bottom of a swing keel C25 after the swing keel has been removed. The retro-fit kit can still be ordered from Catalina Yachts in Woodland Hills CA. There is a write up about making the switch (complete with photos) in the tech tips section of the C25/C250 National Assn website. http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/wingcon1.html Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839
In 1986 the swing keel version of the C25 was replaced with a fixed wing keel. The wing was/is permanently attached and immovable. It draws only 2'10" (only 2" more than your swing when retracted). The wing keel weighs 1,750 lbs (so more than your swing keel). The reported sailing characteristics of a wing keel version - compared to a swing keel version - is that the wing keel boat is more stable and less tender, while not pointing quite as high for upwind sailing - has better off wind speed. When the wing keel version was introduced, Frank Butler and the rest of the Catalina Yachts management felt that there might be a demand for a conversion from the swing keel like you have to a fixed wing keel like the new boats. This has proved to be true with many owners of swing keel boats installing the wing keel retro-fit. The retro-fit is a complete keel that bolts to the bottom of a swing keel C25 after the swing keel has been removed. The retro-fit kit can still be ordered from Catalina Yachts in Woodland Hills CA. There is a write up about making the switch (complete with photos) in the tech tips section of the C25/C250 National Assn website. http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/wingcon1.html Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839
Retracting the keel
You probably have it solved by now, and I hope you have, but if you still need to get the keel up you might consider the following: Get a length of cable long enough to reach from gunnel to gunnel under the boat with several feet to spare and some loops in each end. Start the cable under the boat from the bow and work it to the rear with someone walking down each side of the boat. When the lower part of the loop gets to the keel, continue working to the rear to give you better leverage and pull up on both sides. This should swing the keel upward. You may have to get some mechanical help to pull the cable ends, but the keel should begin to swing up. You can at least pull it partially up to allow getting the boat on a trailer or keep it from being damaged when the tide goes out and the keel hits bottom. I wouldn't count on totally retracting the keel because the leverage will get almost impossible because of the curvature of the bottom and sides of the boat, and there is chance of the cable slipping off the end of the keel. If you can get it up just 45 degrees, you have substantially reduced the draft and that may be just enough to get it on a trailer with the keel dragging up on the center rest.
You probably have it solved by now, and I hope you have, but if you still need to get the keel up you might consider the following: Get a length of cable long enough to reach from gunnel to gunnel under the boat with several feet to spare and some loops in each end. Start the cable under the boat from the bow and work it to the rear with someone walking down each side of the boat. When the lower part of the loop gets to the keel, continue working to the rear to give you better leverage and pull up on both sides. This should swing the keel upward. You may have to get some mechanical help to pull the cable ends, but the keel should begin to swing up. You can at least pull it partially up to allow getting the boat on a trailer or keep it from being damaged when the tide goes out and the keel hits bottom. I wouldn't count on totally retracting the keel because the leverage will get almost impossible because of the curvature of the bottom and sides of the boat, and there is chance of the cable slipping off the end of the keel. If you can get it up just 45 degrees, you have substantially reduced the draft and that may be just enough to get it on a trailer with the keel dragging up on the center rest.
Be Sure To Inspect
Hi Robert, When you get your boat on the lift, make sure that you carefully inspect the swing keel hinging system. Your boat has had the keel in the mud for several days now and even small waves can cause excessive torque on the hinging system. This can cause damage that will eventually allow the keel to seperate from the boat with sudden loss of all ballast and potentially disasterous results. I'm not trying to scare you, but it has happened in the past from situations just like yours. What you will see are four 5/8" bolts holding two silicone bronze shoe castings, placed on either side of the keel about a foot aft of the keels forward edge. A silicone bronze 1" pin is held in place by the castings and this pin allows the swing keel to pivot. You probably will want to use a hydraulic jack to lower the front of the keel slightly (after removing the four 5/8" bolts) so that you can remove the castings and pin for inspection. Be careful, the keel weighs 1,500 lbs and is more than a little bit dangerous and unweildy. Inspect the castings, pivot pin and bolts carefully for damage. Also inspect the fiberglass region around the hinge mechanism site for damage. Look for cracks in the fiberglass. If you find any, it is time for a repair (or at least an expert opinion from a qualified fiberglass tech: AND a call to your insurance company). And, take a look at the pivot pin hole in the keel. Make sure that it is not elongated. If the hole is "out-of-round", you will want to have it drilled out and a sleeve installed. BTW: If you have had a KLUNK type of sound coming from the swing keel, you may want to purchase a new set of castings and pivot pin. These come in a kit along with some spacers to help quiet things down. Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839
Hi Robert, When you get your boat on the lift, make sure that you carefully inspect the swing keel hinging system. Your boat has had the keel in the mud for several days now and even small waves can cause excessive torque on the hinging system. This can cause damage that will eventually allow the keel to seperate from the boat with sudden loss of all ballast and potentially disasterous results. I'm not trying to scare you, but it has happened in the past from situations just like yours. What you will see are four 5/8" bolts holding two silicone bronze shoe castings, placed on either side of the keel about a foot aft of the keels forward edge. A silicone bronze 1" pin is held in place by the castings and this pin allows the swing keel to pivot. You probably will want to use a hydraulic jack to lower the front of the keel slightly (after removing the four 5/8" bolts) so that you can remove the castings and pin for inspection. Be careful, the keel weighs 1,500 lbs and is more than a little bit dangerous and unweildy. Inspect the castings, pivot pin and bolts carefully for damage. Also inspect the fiberglass region around the hinge mechanism site for damage. Look for cracks in the fiberglass. If you find any, it is time for a repair (or at least an expert opinion from a qualified fiberglass tech: AND a call to your insurance company). And, take a look at the pivot pin hole in the keel. Make sure that it is not elongated. If the hole is "out-of-round", you will want to have it drilled out and a sleeve installed. BTW: If you have had a KLUNK type of sound coming from the swing keel, you may want to purchase a new set of castings and pivot pin. These come in a kit along with some spacers to help quiet things down. Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839
getting it fixed
Well, I Am ordering all the stuff to redo the swing keel for now and in the spring I intend to get the retro kit and make her a wing keel. I talk to youa nice fella at catalina today gave me all the info that I needed. the price for changing it over to the wing is not bad. 1,750 plus 750. for shipping then for a yard to do it or do it your self. I am looking forward to doing it in the spring. Thank you everyone for the information that you gave me.
Well, I Am ordering all the stuff to redo the swing keel for now and in the spring I intend to get the retro kit and make her a wing keel. I talk to youa nice fella at catalina today gave me all the info that I needed. the price for changing it over to the wing is not bad. 1,750 plus 750. for shipping then for a yard to do it or do it your self. I am looking forward to doing it in the spring. Thank you everyone for the information that you gave me.
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