Having just returned from a wonderful sail in the San Francisco Bay where the wind in the 'slot' between the Golden Gate Bridge and Berkeley was letting us surf on the waves and cream past 40 foot yachts, I arrived back to find that the centerboard cable came away in my hands as I tried to pull up the board. I had not reversed with the centerboard down (though I have done this mildly before at the end of a shallower than expected launch ramp). So the questions are: 1. How is it possible for a cable with a breaking strain of probably 2 tons to break? (I am assuming that it is a matter of kinking and flexing rather than straight pulling). How can one stop this happening again? 2. How can I fix the cable? The centerbord pivot appears to be fine, so I am assuming the only cheap way is to launch (with a strap around the center of the boat to prevent the board digging in as one reverses thge boat off thre trailer) and then fix the cable under water. Presumably the cable attachment is similar to the attachment at the rudder - a bolt through the trailing edge of the centerboard with an eye in the cable? Is it shallow enough to use a breathing tube to the surface? 3. By the way I have sometimes found the centerboard sluggish to go down (perhaps, now I have had this failure, because of cable kinking). Is it possible to add more weight (lead?). Also at speeds of 6+knots I imagine that the drag pulls the centerboard back creating less effective centerboard area and hence more leeway? Would like to hear from any of you who have thoughts on this.
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Bob Cassel
Check the route of the cable...
it may have jumped off one of the sheaves and torn itself up on the shaft. You can do the job underwater, or you can jack up the boat enough for the centerboard to swing down a few feet. If you do it underwater, have lots of spare washers, nuts etc. and tie the wrenches to your wrists. You can order replacement cables from any dealer, Arena should have some or you can do it via the internet from Havencraft, etc.
it may have jumped off one of the sheaves and torn itself up on the shaft. You can do the job underwater, or you can jack up the boat enough for the centerboard to swing down a few feet. If you do it underwater, have lots of spare washers, nuts etc. and tie the wrenches to your wrists. You can order replacement cables from any dealer, Arena should have some or you can do it via the internet from Havencraft, etc.
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Doug Rodrigues
Haul-out next door?
Might be safer for you to just have your boat hauled-out by that boat repair outfit located immediately west of the Berkeley launching ramp in the corner of the slips. They never seem busy anyway. They can keep your boat on their wheeled crane on the straps while you do your repair. Probably wouldn't cost more than $60-$80....I think. Yeah, unfortunate that only people that sail San Francisco Bay know about "The Slot" and the ability to go surfing in a Mac.
Might be safer for you to just have your boat hauled-out by that boat repair outfit located immediately west of the Berkeley launching ramp in the corner of the slips. They never seem busy anyway. They can keep your boat on their wheeled crane on the straps while you do your repair. Probably wouldn't cost more than $60-$80....I think. Yeah, unfortunate that only people that sail San Francisco Bay know about "The Slot" and the ability to go surfing in a Mac.
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Chris Baker
broken pulley
Dear Bob, Thanks for your reply. The pulley was in fact damaged at the top and I had been using the ring about 2 inches away - which did pull the cable at a bit of an angle when pulling up the keel, but I guessed it was only rubbing the fiber glass tube a bit and I was going to make this a winter repair. From the length of the cable attached to the rope it is clear though that the break occurred about where the cable was attached to the centerboard - not at the top. Is there a pulley just at the top of the centerboard casing that might need to be replaced? This would make my underwater fix idea much more difficult.
Dear Bob, Thanks for your reply. The pulley was in fact damaged at the top and I had been using the ring about 2 inches away - which did pull the cable at a bit of an angle when pulling up the keel, but I guessed it was only rubbing the fiber glass tube a bit and I was going to make this a winter repair. From the length of the cable attached to the rope it is clear though that the break occurred about where the cable was attached to the centerboard - not at the top. Is there a pulley just at the top of the centerboard casing that might need to be replaced? This would make my underwater fix idea much more difficult.
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Joe Frazier
Cable attaches to keel with a 1/4" bolt
Hi Chris, I had the exact problem with my 94 26S last weekend. My cable frayed just above the pressed fitting at the bottom thimble. The cable attaches to the board through a hole in the top of the board and a 1/4 bolt through the thimble. Check out the attached link, it has a diagram of the setup. This is the same diagram the factory faxed to me last week. Can you describe the pulley that the cable goes through at the top of the galley? The prior owner of my boat changed the rigging on my 26S and I'm trying to figure out how it was originally rigged. I'm trying to figure out what kind of block it is and how it is attached. Thanks, Joe
Hi Chris, I had the exact problem with my 94 26S last weekend. My cable frayed just above the pressed fitting at the bottom thimble. The cable attaches to the board through a hole in the top of the board and a 1/4 bolt through the thimble. Check out the attached link, it has a diagram of the setup. This is the same diagram the factory faxed to me last week. Can you describe the pulley that the cable goes through at the top of the galley? The prior owner of my boat changed the rigging on my 26S and I'm trying to figure out how it was originally rigged. I'm trying to figure out what kind of block it is and how it is attached. Thanks, Joe
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Chris Baker
Hauling out at Berkeley
Thanks for the great suggestion. I had guessed the crane would be about $200 per hour - I will find out how much it is. You are right they never seem to be doing anything with it. How is sailing on Tahoe? I don't think I can use my boat there as I have a 2 stroke engine - or do they allow emergency use only?
Thanks for the great suggestion. I had guessed the crane would be about $200 per hour - I will find out how much it is. You are right they never seem to be doing anything with it. How is sailing on Tahoe? I don't think I can use my boat there as I have a 2 stroke engine - or do they allow emergency use only?
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Chris Baker
More centerboard discussion
Hi Joe, Many thanks for the reply and the attachments. They are hard to read but I get the general idea. My 26 has a pulley mounted directly above the pipe, then a ring about 2 inches to the right of that. Both the ring and the pulley are mounted separately to the undersde of the galley top. There is another pulley mounted behind the hole through which the rope exits, just to the right of the galley sink. Am I right in thinking there is no pulley just above the point where your cable failed? That the cable goes straight up the tube from the centerboard below and the first pulley is the one under the galley? By the way where did you get the sketches and the repair kit from? Thanks again for your info, Chris
Hi Joe, Many thanks for the reply and the attachments. They are hard to read but I get the general idea. My 26 has a pulley mounted directly above the pipe, then a ring about 2 inches to the right of that. Both the ring and the pulley are mounted separately to the undersde of the galley top. There is another pulley mounted behind the hole through which the rope exits, just to the right of the galley sink. Am I right in thinking there is no pulley just above the point where your cable failed? That the cable goes straight up the tube from the centerboard below and the first pulley is the one under the galley? By the way where did you get the sketches and the repair kit from? Thanks again for your info, Chris
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Doug Rodrigues
Sailing at Tahoe
Chris, sailing at Tahoe doesn't compare to San Francisco Bay. Tahoe winds usually don't start blowing until afternoon, then continue way after dark. Don't even think about using a two stroke outboard in Tahoe. I had the Coast Guard not only look at the engine cover, but even take information from the manufacturer sticker to confirm it was a four-stroke. Hefty fine if it wasn't! Sure miss operating out of the Berkeley Marina. Maybe I'll see you there one of these months. Just look for my boat's name: "Chantel Marie" at the dry storage or launch ramp. Let me know if I'm mistaken about that haul-out price at Berkeley. At Tahoe, it's $20 to take it off or back onto your trailer....or the Coast Guard Station ramp for $10 a day.
Chris, sailing at Tahoe doesn't compare to San Francisco Bay. Tahoe winds usually don't start blowing until afternoon, then continue way after dark. Don't even think about using a two stroke outboard in Tahoe. I had the Coast Guard not only look at the engine cover, but even take information from the manufacturer sticker to confirm it was a four-stroke. Hefty fine if it wasn't! Sure miss operating out of the Berkeley Marina. Maybe I'll see you there one of these months. Just look for my boat's name: "Chantel Marie" at the dry storage or launch ramp. Let me know if I'm mistaken about that haul-out price at Berkeley. At Tahoe, it's $20 to take it off or back onto your trailer....or the Coast Guard Station ramp for $10 a day.
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Joe Frazier
There is no pulley at the board
Hi Chris, There is no pulley at the board. The cable goes directly down through a hole drilled vertically from the top of the board down a few inches to another hole drilled horizontally through the side of the board. The 1/4 bolt goes through the horizontal hole and the thimble to keep the cable attached. You can get the cable from the factory although you need to send them a cahiers check before they ship so that could take a while. I happened to have the original cable in a box of spare parts that came with my boat. For some reason the prior owner changed the setup on my boat which is why I'm trying to figure out the pulleys. You can also make the cable easily enough. The cable is 7 X 19 flexible stainless steel wire and it is 45" long from thimble to thimble. There is a single press fitting on each end. The loop on one end needs to be big enough for a 5/16 rope and the other end needs to be large enough for a 1/4 bolt. The fitting at the bolted end is filed down a bit so it till go through the hole in the keel. If you reply with a fax number, I'll send you the diagrams I have. They're much more legible than the site I attached. The diagram cover the specifics of the cable, keel board hole patterns etc… You can also call the factory @ 949.642.6830 and ask for Bill. Can I ask a question about the pulley above the tube? Is it hung from a strap or is it bolted directly to the galley? Based on the existing hole patterns, I am assuming it is a block similar to the one screwed to the mast for the main halyard, and that the block is bolted directly to the side of the galley wall. BTW – It will cost me $78 to have my boat hauled out for this repair so the $60 - $80 estimate of the prior reply is pretty accurate. Thanks, Joe
Hi Chris, There is no pulley at the board. The cable goes directly down through a hole drilled vertically from the top of the board down a few inches to another hole drilled horizontally through the side of the board. The 1/4 bolt goes through the horizontal hole and the thimble to keep the cable attached. You can get the cable from the factory although you need to send them a cahiers check before they ship so that could take a while. I happened to have the original cable in a box of spare parts that came with my boat. For some reason the prior owner changed the setup on my boat which is why I'm trying to figure out the pulleys. You can also make the cable easily enough. The cable is 7 X 19 flexible stainless steel wire and it is 45" long from thimble to thimble. There is a single press fitting on each end. The loop on one end needs to be big enough for a 5/16 rope and the other end needs to be large enough for a 1/4 bolt. The fitting at the bolted end is filed down a bit so it till go through the hole in the keel. If you reply with a fax number, I'll send you the diagrams I have. They're much more legible than the site I attached. The diagram cover the specifics of the cable, keel board hole patterns etc… You can also call the factory @ 949.642.6830 and ask for Bill. Can I ask a question about the pulley above the tube? Is it hung from a strap or is it bolted directly to the galley? Based on the existing hole patterns, I am assuming it is a block similar to the one screwed to the mast for the main halyard, and that the block is bolted directly to the side of the galley wall. BTW – It will cost me $78 to have my boat hauled out for this repair so the $60 - $80 estimate of the prior reply is pretty accurate. Thanks, Joe
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Joe Frazier
what I should have said...
Hi Chris, After rereading my response to your question, I realize I didn't directly answer your question. There is no pulley between the board and the one at the top of the tube inside the galley. Thanks, Joe
Hi Chris, After rereading my response to your question, I realize I didn't directly answer your question. There is no pulley between the board and the one at the top of the tube inside the galley. Thanks, Joe
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Chris Baker
pulley block above the centerboard
Hi Joe, One of the diagrams that you sent shows the pulley as it mounts into the galley. the pulley block mounts to a bracket which has 2 screws that attach the bracket to the top surface of the galley. The pulley block mounts to this bracket via a pivot (as shown in the diagram). The bracket is positioned such that one side of the pulley sheave is exactly centered on the tube from the centerboard housing. In my opinion the galley top is very weak here (cupholders don't help) and should be strenthened underneath. Thanks for your reply on the centerboard casing. If there is no pulley does the cable rub on the side of the fiberglass tube as it goes down? If not a pulley is there a steel pin that could be worn? Presumably the cable aligns directly with the tube when the centerboard is up. When it goes down it moves aft by, I am gussing, about 6 inches. Sorry to go on about this but I want to be sure I have all the kit before I haul her out. By the way thanks for offering to fax me the diagrams. My fax number is 925 299 1050. Thanks for your help, Chris
Hi Joe, One of the diagrams that you sent shows the pulley as it mounts into the galley. the pulley block mounts to a bracket which has 2 screws that attach the bracket to the top surface of the galley. The pulley block mounts to this bracket via a pivot (as shown in the diagram). The bracket is positioned such that one side of the pulley sheave is exactly centered on the tube from the centerboard housing. In my opinion the galley top is very weak here (cupholders don't help) and should be strenthened underneath. Thanks for your reply on the centerboard casing. If there is no pulley does the cable rub on the side of the fiberglass tube as it goes down? If not a pulley is there a steel pin that could be worn? Presumably the cable aligns directly with the tube when the centerboard is up. When it goes down it moves aft by, I am gussing, about 6 inches. Sorry to go on about this but I want to be sure I have all the kit before I haul her out. By the way thanks for offering to fax me the diagrams. My fax number is 925 299 1050. Thanks for your help, Chris
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Joe Frazier
Thanks
Hi Chris, I took the diagrams out of my briefcase last night and forgot them at home. I'll fax them tomorrow morning. If you need them today, you can give the factory a call. I'm having my boat lifted Friday morning so I will know for certain if there is any sheave, pulley etc... in the through-hull section. I'm relying on the information I got from the factory in assuming there isn't. Although, I agree with your suspicion that there should be something to prevent the cable from rubbing the fiberglass when the keel is down. I'll plan to take a picture when the boat is lifted. Thanks for the detailed description of the pulley setup. Unfortunately, I have a different setup. The origianl configuration on my boat is all on the left side of the galley running front to rear. It sounds like this is different than yours and different than the setup in the diagram I got from the factory. At some point, they changed the setup on the 94 & 95 26S models. On mine, the keel cable "L" bracket is monted on the side of the lip on the left side of the galley near the stove and there are two holes drilled a few inches behind that above the tube. I've pretty much concluded that it can only be a cheek block mounted on its side. Thanks, Joe
Hi Chris, I took the diagrams out of my briefcase last night and forgot them at home. I'll fax them tomorrow morning. If you need them today, you can give the factory a call. I'm having my boat lifted Friday morning so I will know for certain if there is any sheave, pulley etc... in the through-hull section. I'm relying on the information I got from the factory in assuming there isn't. Although, I agree with your suspicion that there should be something to prevent the cable from rubbing the fiberglass when the keel is down. I'll plan to take a picture when the boat is lifted. Thanks for the detailed description of the pulley setup. Unfortunately, I have a different setup. The origianl configuration on my boat is all on the left side of the galley running front to rear. It sounds like this is different than yours and different than the setup in the diagram I got from the factory. At some point, they changed the setup on the 94 & 95 26S models. On mine, the keel cable "L" bracket is monted on the side of the lip on the left side of the galley near the stove and there are two holes drilled a few inches behind that above the tube. I've pretty much concluded that it can only be a cheek block mounted on its side. Thanks, Joe
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Joe Frazier
Here's a thought...
Hi Chris, Here is an email I received from the SailNet Macgregor list I belong to. It is a pretty creative suggestion for handling the repair without lifting the boat. Thanks, Joe To: <macgregor-list@sailnet.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [macgregor-list] Keel cable setup on 94 26S > I tied my '94 between two docks and pulled it over on it's side. With > ballast tank empty, the boat easily > pulled over. We looped the rope around a hitch for leverage and I was able > to replace the cable. > > The other end or keel end of the cable feeds through a hole in the back edge > of the keel into a > larger cut out area where a stainless nut and bolt > pass through the loop at the end of the cable to > hold it in place. > > My cable broke right at the swag. The swag fits > snug into the pre mentioned hole at the back of the > keel. The new swag was a little larger than the old > and required some firm tapping to get it in. > > The two of us did it in about 30 min. > > James > 26c > >
Hi Chris, Here is an email I received from the SailNet Macgregor list I belong to. It is a pretty creative suggestion for handling the repair without lifting the boat. Thanks, Joe To: <macgregor-list@sailnet.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [macgregor-list] Keel cable setup on 94 26S > I tied my '94 between two docks and pulled it over on it's side. With > ballast tank empty, the boat easily > pulled over. We looped the rope around a hitch for leverage and I was able > to replace the cable. > > The other end or keel end of the cable feeds through a hole in the back edge > of the keel into a > larger cut out area where a stainless nut and bolt > pass through the loop at the end of the cable to > hold it in place. > > My cable broke right at the swag. The swag fits > snug into the pre mentioned hole at the back of the > keel. The new swag was a little larger than the old > and required some firm tapping to get it in. > > The two of us did it in about 30 min. > > James > 26c > >
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Chris Baker
why didn't I think of that?
Hi Joe, For some reason I hadn't thought of careening the boat. There is a local lake (warm water) with sandy beaches and trees at the edge - ideal for attaching the main halyard to.... It sounds like Macgregor has got the design badly wrong. Cables should always be in tension. By jamming the ferrule into the board the cable is continuously bent under load at an angle of about 60 degrees (guesstimate)- and continuously cycled backwards and forwards. It definitely explains why we are all getting this failure. Could the board be slotted to allow the cable to rotate on the bolt or would this weaken the trailing edge of the board too much? Or can another hole be drilled not normal to the board but at 30 degrees such that the cable is flexed at the ferrule not 0-60 degrees but +/- 30 degrees? Probably interferes with the cone in the centerboard casing though. I cannot do anything this w/e so would be very interested to hear what you find out tomorrow. Thanks for the great careening idea, Chris
Hi Joe, For some reason I hadn't thought of careening the boat. There is a local lake (warm water) with sandy beaches and trees at the edge - ideal for attaching the main halyard to.... It sounds like Macgregor has got the design badly wrong. Cables should always be in tension. By jamming the ferrule into the board the cable is continuously bent under load at an angle of about 60 degrees (guesstimate)- and continuously cycled backwards and forwards. It definitely explains why we are all getting this failure. Could the board be slotted to allow the cable to rotate on the bolt or would this weaken the trailing edge of the board too much? Or can another hole be drilled not normal to the board but at 30 degrees such that the cable is flexed at the ferrule not 0-60 degrees but +/- 30 degrees? Probably interferes with the cone in the centerboard casing though. I cannot do anything this w/e so would be very interested to hear what you find out tomorrow. Thanks for the great careening idea, Chris
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Joe Frazier
I faxed the diagrams
Hi Chris, I faxed the diagrams. Let me know if you don't get them. I agree that the design is poor and I thought about slotting the board. However, I'm afraid that would weaken the board too much and the cable would pull out. As an alternative, I was thinking of putting a threaded closed eye hook through the hole the cable goes through and swaging the cable to the hook. If you're interested in seeing how Macgregor changed the pulleys, check out the attached link. Clearly this design has issues as well. I'll let you know what I find tomorrow. I'm still going with the boatyard lift. My season is quickly running out here in the Northeast and it would take me some time to find a suitable location and a willing extra set of hands to careen the boat. Thanks, Joe
Hi Chris, I faxed the diagrams. Let me know if you don't get them. I agree that the design is poor and I thought about slotting the board. However, I'm afraid that would weaken the board too much and the cable would pull out. As an alternative, I was thinking of putting a threaded closed eye hook through the hole the cable goes through and swaging the cable to the hook. If you're interested in seeing how Macgregor changed the pulleys, check out the attached link. Clearly this design has issues as well. I'll let you know what I find tomorrow. I'm still going with the boatyard lift. My season is quickly running out here in the Northeast and it would take me some time to find a suitable location and a willing extra set of hands to careen the boat. Thanks, Joe
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Joe Frazier
Its basically what we expected...
Hi Chris, Its basically what we thought. There is no hardware/fitting in the through hull section. I have a picture that is too large to attach to this post. If you send me your email, I'll forward the pic. Unfortunately, when the yard blocked the boat they didn't set it high enough for the keel to fully extend so they are going to do the final attachment when they lift the boat back into the water. Thanks, Joe
Hi Chris, Its basically what we thought. There is no hardware/fitting in the through hull section. I have a picture that is too large to attach to this post. If you send me your email, I'll forward the pic. Unfortunately, when the yard blocked the boat they didn't set it high enough for the keel to fully extend so they are going to do the final attachment when they lift the boat back into the water. Thanks, Joe
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Chris baker
As we thought
Hi Joe, Thanks for the info. I would very much like to see the picture. Are you just replacing it as it was before? Really appreciate your help. My email address is usbakers@aol.com
Hi Joe, Thanks for the info. I would very much like to see the picture. Are you just replacing it as it was before? Really appreciate your help. My email address is usbakers@aol.com
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