I am not satisfied with the original design of the anchor lock cleat for my 85' hunter. I have seen some pictures of 23's with two cleats (port and starboard) on the deck. Are there any precautions that I should take before I do this? Thanx, Tony
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Crazy Dave Condon
Yes
when installing cleats, I see folks simply put screws into the boat with a little washer on the back and nut. This is very badddddddddd. In a good storm, the cleat will rip out. Use of a big backing plate is strongly recommended Crazy Dave Condon
when installing cleats, I see folks simply put screws into the boat with a little washer on the back and nut. This is very badddddddddd. In a good storm, the cleat will rip out. Use of a big backing plate is strongly recommended Crazy Dave Condon
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Bruce
And Sealant
I agree with Crazy Dave. I added two bow cleats to my 23.5, as the single cleat from the factory was inadequate. Don't forget to add a bunch of 5200 under the cleat & between the underside of the deck and top of the backing plate - it keeps it watertight. I also added two cleats (with stainless steel backing plates & hardware) midship for attaching springlines - it really helps, is cheap, and is simple (I'm a klutz when it comes to projects, and even I could do it!) Bruce
I agree with Crazy Dave. I added two bow cleats to my 23.5, as the single cleat from the factory was inadequate. Don't forget to add a bunch of 5200 under the cleat & between the underside of the deck and top of the backing plate - it keeps it watertight. I also added two cleats (with stainless steel backing plates & hardware) midship for attaching springlines - it really helps, is cheap, and is simple (I'm a klutz when it comes to projects, and even I could do it!) Bruce
Caulk yes, 5200?
I think that 5200 must be the most overused caulk in use. This is great stuff but *I* would never use it *ANYPLACE* that a part may need to replaced. I would think that putting in on the hull to keel joint is an approiate place but don't use it under cleats, winches, sheet stoppers etc. 4200 is a better product for these applications. There are also products from Boat Life, SikaFlex, Dow and GE to name a few.
I think that 5200 must be the most overused caulk in use. This is great stuff but *I* would never use it *ANYPLACE* that a part may need to replaced. I would think that putting in on the hull to keel joint is an approiate place but don't use it under cleats, winches, sheet stoppers etc. 4200 is a better product for these applications. There are also products from Boat Life, SikaFlex, Dow and GE to name a few.
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Rick Webb
I Agree with Steve, Again and Question for Bruce
Especially with things that are going to move around a little like cleats the 5200 does not have enough flex to it. Bruce, I have been considering the exact same thing where exactly did you put them. I was thinking of doing the ones amidship on the lip about the middle of the window. Would love to hear wear you put yours pictures would be even better.
Especially with things that are going to move around a little like cleats the 5200 does not have enough flex to it. Bruce, I have been considering the exact same thing where exactly did you put them. I was thinking of doing the ones amidship on the lip about the middle of the window. Would love to hear wear you put yours pictures would be even better.
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Tim
Be really careful how you do this...
The deck of the boat is end grain balsa cored for stiffness; great but if its exposed to moisture, the water spreads through the balsa, softens, delaminates, and rots. This is a major expense to repair. Silicone and other non-adhesive sealants will wick water by capillary action under hardware and into the deck. This is very common and one of the chief reasons to hire a pro surveyor for a used boat. The right way to mount new hardware: 1. Drill a small pilot hole in the mounting position. 2. drill out an oversize hole from the underside of the deck, maybe 1/2" in diameter larger than the hole needed, up to but NOT through the upper skin on the deck. 3. Tape over the larger hole on the bottom and fill the Hole with solid epoxy. 4. After it hardens, drill the actual hole you need to mount the new hardware. Since the hole now goes through solid epoxy, moisture won't get in your balsa core. 5. Seal the hardware with an adhesive. 3m 5200 is the best, but it is quite nasty to remove. If you do need to remove 5200, try this: http://www.antibond2015.com
The deck of the boat is end grain balsa cored for stiffness; great but if its exposed to moisture, the water spreads through the balsa, softens, delaminates, and rots. This is a major expense to repair. Silicone and other non-adhesive sealants will wick water by capillary action under hardware and into the deck. This is very common and one of the chief reasons to hire a pro surveyor for a used boat. The right way to mount new hardware: 1. Drill a small pilot hole in the mounting position. 2. drill out an oversize hole from the underside of the deck, maybe 1/2" in diameter larger than the hole needed, up to but NOT through the upper skin on the deck. 3. Tape over the larger hole on the bottom and fill the Hole with solid epoxy. 4. After it hardens, drill the actual hole you need to mount the new hardware. Since the hole now goes through solid epoxy, moisture won't get in your balsa core. 5. Seal the hardware with an adhesive. 3m 5200 is the best, but it is quite nasty to remove. If you do need to remove 5200, try this: http://www.antibond2015.com
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Bruce
Lip & 5200 Worked for Me
I installed the mid ship cleats on the "lip" as you suggested under the window, with the backing plates. If you open the panel in your bow area/V berth (unscrew 4 screws - so simple even I could figure it out!), this gives you access to the area under the anchor locker. I installed the bow cleats in the space between the anchor locker & the hull (it's about 2 inches wide, big enough to work in). I was generous with the 5200, and have had no leaks. I did all 4 cleats (2 on the bow, 2 mid ship) in about 2 hours. The hardest part was dealing with the anxiety of drilling a hole in my baby...... Bruce
I installed the mid ship cleats on the "lip" as you suggested under the window, with the backing plates. If you open the panel in your bow area/V berth (unscrew 4 screws - so simple even I could figure it out!), this gives you access to the area under the anchor locker. I installed the bow cleats in the space between the anchor locker & the hull (it's about 2 inches wide, big enough to work in). I was generous with the 5200, and have had no leaks. I did all 4 cleats (2 on the bow, 2 mid ship) in about 2 hours. The hardest part was dealing with the anxiety of drilling a hole in my baby...... Bruce
5200 Bruce
Bruce: We are not disagreeing with your method. Our only concern is the fact that you may loose your gelcoat if you ever try to remove the cleats. This is great stuff, but should not be used where you may want to remove an item. Just remember that using 5200 is similar to using concrete on something. It not impossible to remove but close to it. If you ever try to remove anything that was put down with 5200, you should use some of the special solvent (JWB Anti-Bond 2015) before you try to remove that item. There is nothing that 5200 does better than 4200 other than the fact that it gluing and adhesion capabilities are higher. If you are happy with 5200 you should continue to use it
Bruce: We are not disagreeing with your method. Our only concern is the fact that you may loose your gelcoat if you ever try to remove the cleats. This is great stuff, but should not be used where you may want to remove an item. Just remember that using 5200 is similar to using concrete on something. It not impossible to remove but close to it. If you ever try to remove anything that was put down with 5200, you should use some of the special solvent (JWB Anti-Bond 2015) before you try to remove that item. There is nothing that 5200 does better than 4200 other than the fact that it gluing and adhesion capabilities are higher. If you are happy with 5200 you should continue to use it
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Rick Webb
Thanks Bruce
One more question what size cleats did you use? As for the holes in the boat I had a hard time at first but you get used to it I have drilled several now look in the photo forum at some of my projects.
One more question what size cleats did you use? As for the holes in the boat I had a hard time at first but you get used to it I have drilled several now look in the photo forum at some of my projects.
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Bruce
Cleat Size & Panel
Please accept my apologies for the delay in my response - I've been sick as a dog for the past few days & even missed a great weekend to sail here in N.C...... Anyway, I used 8 inch cleats for the 2 on the bow, and 6 inch cleats for the 2 midship. I realize that 8 inch cleats are "overkill", but I have liked having plenty of cleat to work with. The forward panel that you must remove to get to the underside of the anchor locker area is located in the bow, where the bottoms of your feet would be if you were laying down in the V berth. The panel has 4 phillips head screws (1 in each corner). Remove the screws, and use the edge of a small regular head screwdriver to pry up a corner of the panel. Once you pull off the panel, you will pull out a block of flotation foam (tight fit, but just pulls out). Once you remove the foam block, you will clearly see the underside of the anchor locker & the areas I described to put the cleats on to. Sorry I don't have pictures, I don't own a scanner or digital camera (I know, I'm in the Dark Ages...). I hope this helps. Bruce
Please accept my apologies for the delay in my response - I've been sick as a dog for the past few days & even missed a great weekend to sail here in N.C...... Anyway, I used 8 inch cleats for the 2 on the bow, and 6 inch cleats for the 2 midship. I realize that 8 inch cleats are "overkill", but I have liked having plenty of cleat to work with. The forward panel that you must remove to get to the underside of the anchor locker area is located in the bow, where the bottoms of your feet would be if you were laying down in the V berth. The panel has 4 phillips head screws (1 in each corner). Remove the screws, and use the edge of a small regular head screwdriver to pry up a corner of the panel. Once you pull off the panel, you will pull out a block of flotation foam (tight fit, but just pulls out). Once you remove the foam block, you will clearly see the underside of the anchor locker & the areas I described to put the cleats on to. Sorry I don't have pictures, I don't own a scanner or digital camera (I know, I'm in the Dark Ages...). I hope this helps. Bruce
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