Bow Blows Down Hard When Motoring

[Foswick]

This boat is pretty new to me (about 3 months). In general, I love the way she sails. But, there is a tendency when sails are down that is pretty challenging when handling under power in the marina. The bow blows downwind rather strongly, even under relatively modest winds.

To frame this, she is a 32-foot ketch with a pronounced bowsprit and roller furling head sail. The hull is a full keel with a cutaway. (Fuji 32 — Sailboat Guide)

The bow on most boats tends to blow downwind. I'm pretty experienced, so I know what this feels like and how to compensate. I have never felt it so strongly, though, as I do on this boat. In 15+ kts, it can be impossible to turn upwind at all, without building up some pretty good speed. But, even at 8 kts or so, it can be problematic enough to require some clever maneuvering in certain spaces.

I don't know the exact CLR (center of lateral resistance) for this boat. But, I can intuit that it is about 2/3 to 3/4 of the distance from the jib's tack (the forward-most point) to the stern. This is due to the bowsprit and rakish bow, combined with the keel cutout. In fact, the hull doesn't even touch the water until about 6 feet aft of the tack. So, there is quite a bit of leverage on that forward windage. I am assuming that is the main culprit. Also, being a ketch, that pushes the main mast a bit forward, adding to the effect.

So, I know that one thing I can do to mitigate this is to completely remove the jib. Same with the main. These are a couple of big sails to completely remove in windy conditions and stow below. Not ideal, but better than being blown into a neighboring boat. So, I'll keep those measures in my toolbox. I can add those measures with ideas like keeping maneuvering speeds a bit higher. Also, spring lines.

I'm wondering if others have successfully overcome this issue in ways I haven't considered. I have considered using a riding sail on the mizzen, or partially raising the mizzen. That would balance the boat, but it also adds to the overall windage. Not sure if the pros outweight the cons. I'll have to determine that through experimentation.

Any other ideas, thoughts, experiences?

 

[PaulK]

Using the mizzen to improve the boat's balance might work better than you think. The profile plan makes it look like a bigger rudder might make compensating for the windage easier as well.

 

[Foswick]

Using the mizzen to improve the boat's balance might work better than you think. The profile plan makes it look like a bigger rudder might make compensating for the windage easier as well.

Yeah, I'm going to experiment with using the mizzen or a riding sail this weekend, if there is enough wind.

I don't think a larger rudder would make any appreciable difference. This isn't an issue if I am moving forward with any speed. (Well, that isn't entirely true. When winds get to around 20 kts, she can be difficult to turn upwind without 3-4 kts of forward movement.

This is more an issue of when I am trying to do things like a standing turn in a confined space. It might help in reverse, though. Like many such keels, she basically doesn't steer in reverse at all. If I pick up some steam in reverse and shift to neutral, I can "suggest" that she turn in a direction.

This is inconvenient because with the tendency for the bow to blow down, my preferred strategy for trying to leave a confined space is often to back out. So, I end up backing a bit until I start to get off track. Then I use short forward bursts to correct my heading, then resume backing. Kind of a pain, but works OK (ish).

I have to say, this is the most difficult boat I have ever maneuvered in the marina. She sails a treat, though, so I can forgive her eccentricities. The thing is she's a lot of fun to sail when winds pick up to 15-20 kts or more. But, she is almost impossible to get in and out of a slip in those winds.

To make it worse, she is currently in a fairly cozy slip that typically has a side wind blowing her off the dock. Fortunately, I make a starboard turn into and out of the slip (right-handed prop). So, unless winds are ripping, I can make that without a lot of drama.

 

[higgs]

I had a full keeler for almost 20 years and once I learned her idiosyncrasies I could put her into almost any spot going forward. (Reverse was anybody's guess.) I learned to use prop walk to make the boat very maneuverable. I suspect the forward cutaway of the keel makes controlling the bow a big problem. I am wondering if short bursts of power in forward, at the right time, might overcome the problem. It will force the stern over which the bow will then have to follow. Another solution would be a bow thruster, but that is a costly solution.

 

[capta]

I've owned and operated some vessels that didn't obey my commands when I ordered them to go astern. I soon figured out that if a boat didn't want to go astern easily, that I'd have to do my steering in forward and force the stern to go where I wished.
As you begin to go astern, she will prop walk whichever way. When the stern is getting too far off track, put the boat in forward with the helm hard over so that the stern will swing toward the center of the space you are backing up in. This maneuver is meant to swing the stern, not go forward, so it requires a hard, sharp, short burst from the throttle.This will move the stern back against the prop walk. Now, as your helm is hard over, it will increase the prop walk, but for me that was just easier than going lock to lock each time.
The long and short of it is you are doing a very small three point maneuver in a confined space.
I don't know if anyone can understand this, and if not I'll try to re-write it.

 

[Foswick]

I will say that she does a really nice standing turn. Since the cutaway moves the CLR aft, it means that she pivots around a point well aft of midship. So, giving a forward burst with the wheel cranked really swings the bow around.

In light winds, I can make a 270 degree turn with only a few bursts in each direction.

The downside is that the main mast and headstay are both well forward of the CLR. So, a relatively light wind can really be difficult to turn into.

If winds are below that threshold (maybe 8ish kts), I am pretty confident maneuvering her in relatively tight spaces. Even reverse is manageable. But, above that threshold, it is a little more excitement than I like when I'm in the marina.

I am going to try adding a little windage to the mizzen to see if the pros outweigh the cons.

 

[sailme88]

This is SBO, a broad clearinghouse for sharing on a wide spectrum boats. It seems that many different boats are now forming groups within their own particular brand. I'd suggest that you search for a Fuji 32 group. In the absence of one, create it.. The fix that you're looking for may have been discovered an published.

 

[Will Gilmore]

There is always the bow thruster. There's a product called a jet thruster that is basically two thru-hulls that jet out water on one side of the bow, in-take on the opposite side.

-Will

 

[sv Hooligan]

I have a Fuji 35 Ketch 1977. She behaves exactly as you describe.
I had a single screw 40’ 1959 full keel wooden troller made in Scotland, behaved the same perhaps even worse.
I found short bursts of throttle in forward for steerage, burst of reverse to correct and tuck the stern in.
“Sails like a dream, steers like a cement mixer” is a quote I read.