Bottom Paint - the right way ?

[zinahewitt]

Hi All,

I have a boat.
Previous owner put some bottom paint on it.
2 years later it was gone. Apparently it was the illegal kind in CA.....
I paid the "expensive" yard up in the bay area which is KKMI, they put 1 coat of Trinidad HD. They charged me $2500.

I was aware it was a rip off, especially since I gave them the work in winter when they have no work.

3 years have passed.
I was interested in doing my own work.
It looks like $629 is the haul out cost.
Then $65 per day so - 455 for a week.
The paint is $699 for 3 gallons. + $300 for 1 gallon= 2 coats.

So my question is.
If I look at the website for Petit it shows that you should have 2 coats of PETIT Protect.
What is your take on this ?
Should I put the effort into that.?

Should I put the effort into putting 2 coats ?
How much more does that buy you ?


Thank you and hope you have a nice week.

 

[sailme88]

$2500 is a bit stiff for here but here is not where you are. I use Bio-Cop. A gallon will just cover my entire hull with one coat. Usually I find that as long as I double coat from the boot top down 2' and then touch up areas where the reference coat is starting to show through and double coat the rudder that I'll use up the entire gallon. Then the follow on year the left over paint along with a fresh gallon will easily cover the entire hull plus the doubled up areas. My operating cost are a bit different than yours. My boat is hauled home where it is stored. So, a R/T haul is my only expense.. Good luck

 

[Davidasailor26]

I think you’re still overestimating the costs. For a 34’ boat a gallon per coat should be enough. I think it is worth doing two coats if you’d like multi season coverage, so figure 2 gallons of paint. Assuming temperatures and weather are cooperative I think you could do with 3 days out of the water - Rough sand the bottom a bit after it comes out, apply coat 1, wait a few hours, and apply coat 2. By the next day it should be ready to relaunch. Dry times are in the data sheet at https://www.pettitpaint.com/media/5375/trinidad-hd-product-data-sheet.pdf. Unless you have signs of blisters I would not bother with Pettit Protect epoxy. If you do see blistering you’ll be in for a larger project to strip the existing paint, fill the blisters, then several coats of epoxy followed by the paint. But let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.

 

[dlochner]

Have you checked the Pettit compatibility chart? A hard finish, Pettit HD cannot be applied over a softer ablative finish. That means all of the old bottom paint must be removed and then it may be necessary to put a primer coat on first.

Allow more than the stated drying time before launching. Although dry to the touch it will take several days to fully cure. For most of the boat this won't matter much, however, when the Travellift straps pick up the boat, the partially cured paint can be removed or seriously scuffed up due to the weight of the boat and the friction from the straps You will also need a day to move the stands and paint the pads.

Using your numbers, for paint, haul out and storage, the base cost will be $1684 with about $800 left over for labor. At the going rate here in Brunswick GA, that is about 11 hour ($79/hour). Which seems about right for sanding, painting, blocking, move stands and cleaning the bottom on haul out.

 

[thinwater]

Hi All,

I have a boat.
Previous owner put some bottom paint on it.
2 years later it was gone. Apparently it was the illegal kind in CA.....
I paid the "expensive" yard up in the bay area which is KKMI, they put 1 coat of Trinidad HD. They charged me $2500.

I was aware it was a rip off, especially since I gave them the work in winter when they have no work.

3 years have passed.
I was interested in doing my own work.
It looks like $629 is the haul out cost.
Then $65 per day so - 455 for a week.
The paint is $699 for 3 gallons. + $300 for 1 gallon= 2 coats.

So my question is.
If I look at the website for Petit it shows that you should have 2 coats of PETIT Protect.
What is your take on this ?
Should I put the effort into that.?

Should I put the effort into putting 2 coats ?
How much more does that buy you ?


Thank you and hope you have a nice week.

You did not say what the first paint was. Interesting, since the Trinidad paints you speak of are high copper (but controlled leach rate). Probably better than what you had that you say is illegal now, since Trinidad paints are top-level in every test I know. 3 years is a long time for bottom paint, so the Trinidad HD did very well.

Protect is ONLY if you are taking it down to a bare hull. Unless that paint is coming loose, this is not common practice. Typically it is done every 15 years or so, but that depends on past painting practices (frequency, build-up of layers, and adhesion).

Yes, two coats is good if you keep it in the water and should last two years. That is NOT much effort, that is owning a boat. The effort is in the surface prep (power wash, light sanding all over (catch ALL of the dust--vacuum sander and cover the ground), and more vigorous sanding anyplace that is either rough or remotely loose.

Is $2500 a rip-off? It depends on what your time is worth and how good you are at sanding, painting, and the prep-clean-up that goes with it. Some people hate painting, I find it easy and relaxing, and I've done this so many times I naturally work efficiently. This could take 1-3 days, depending on how you work. If your time is $50/hour, that's 10-25 hours or $500-$1250 on top of materials and fees. Probably a better job.

 

[dlochner]

Just got the invoice for bottom painting my 36' boat with 2 coats of antifouling with a couple of places spot primed. There was 10.25 hours of labor at $79 which aligns well with the price you quoted. In an area like California I suspect the yards are busy all year and the labor rate a bit higher.

 

[jssailem]

We all approach the challenge of bottom painting in our own way.

The work is not pretty nor relaxing in my mind. On my haul to get the engine reinstalled, I took the opportunity to have the bottom painted. It had been five years since the last paint job. Spots were starting to show where the Trinidad HD had worn thin.

The initial sanding of my 35-foot boat took one guy three 6-hour work days ($800). This is dirty work, with exposure to unpleasant chemical dust, even using masks, body suits, dust capture sanders, and working above your head.

With the old bottom paint removed, blister repair began. However, there were several days when nothing could be done due to winter rains. When temperature and moisture conditions permitted, one craftsman prepped the area of the blisters, applied thickened epoxy, and allowed them to cure (a couple of days). Then, smoothed the patches and applied two coats of barrier paint as a primer. With prep work complete, the worker applied two coats of Trinidad HD to the hull and an extra coat to the areas that usually show wear (the bow, front and bottom of keel, area around the prop, and the rudder). This came out to be 3 gallons of paint (Labor Cost $1200, the job took 9 days to complete the project. It was a start-and-stop process. Not continuous work). Since my boat was out of the water for other reasons during the winter months, there were storage discounts from the yard, which helped mitigate costs.

So, depending on the condition of your boat, the cost of materials, the expense of hauling and temporary storage of a boat, and the location, the $2500 quote may not be too far out of line.

 

[thinwater]

We all approach the challenge of bottom painting in our own way.

The work is not pretty nor relaxing in my mind. On my haul to get the engine reinstalled, I took the opportunity to have the bottom painted. It had been five years since the last paint job. Spots were starting to show where the Trinidad HD had worn thin.

The initial sanding of my 35-foot boat took one guy three 6-hour work days ($800). This is dirty work, with exposure to unpleasant chemical dust, even using masks, body suits, dust capture sanders, and working above your head.

With the old bottom paint removed, blister repair began. However, there were several days when nothing could be done due to winter rains. When temperature and moisture conditions permitted, one craftsman prepped the area of the blisters, applied thickened epoxy, and allowed them to cure (a couple of days). Then, smoothed the patches and applied two coats of barrier paint as a primer. With prep work complete, the worker applied two coats of Trinidad HD to the hull and an extra coat to the areas that usually show wear (the bow, front and bottom of keel, area around the prop, and the rudder). This came out to be 3 gallons of paint (Labor Cost $1200, the job took 9 days to complete the project. It was a start-and-stop process. Not continuous work). Since my boat was out of the water for other reasons during the winter months, there were storage discounts from the yard, which helped mitigate costs.

So, depending on the condition of your boat, the cost of materials, the expense of hauling and temporary storage of a boat, and the location, the $2500 quote may not be too far out of line.

The thread is about a repaint with a single coat of AF, not a complete removal (I'm sure that was right for you, but it is not what he was asking about).

For a re-paint the sanding should take at most a few hours of machine time, if efficient. Painting with a 9-inch roller goes very fast (mini-rollers are slow and a 3- to 4-foot extension really speeds it up--a chip brush and mini-rollers for the tights spots are good). Add set-up for each step and clean up. I would normally prep and paint my 34' cat in one long day, with other tasks accomplished while waiting to the first coat to dry (the last time I relaced the tramps and did some outboard work). About 6 hours of painting and prep labor. But I've done this many times before and have an optimized kit.

Pick nice weather. Warm enough that paint dries fast, but not over 90F.

 

[jssailem]

Pick nice weather. Warm enough that paint dries fast, but not over 90F.

You are spot on about spring/summer weather. Early spring or winter in Sausalito, CA (the identified location of the OP) is not always conducive to the condition sensitivity of bottom paint.

The California EPA requirements for Marina work can really put a $ bite on the Bay Area boat owner.

All that being said, there is nothing like the care of an owner applying paint to his boat.

 

[zinahewitt]

We all approach the challenge of bottom painting in our own way.

The work is not pretty nor relaxing in my mind. On my haul to get the engine reinstalled, I took the opportunity to have the bottom painted. It had been five years since the last paint job. Spots were starting to show where the Trinidad HD had worn thin.

The initial sanding of my 35-foot boat took one guy three 6-hour work days ($800). This is dirty work, with exposure to unpleasant chemical dust, even using masks, body suits, dust capture sanders, and working above your head.

With the old bottom paint removed, blister repair began. However, there were several days when nothing could be done due to winter rains. When temperature and moisture conditions permitted, one craftsman prepped the area of the blisters, applied thickened epoxy, and allowed them to cure (a couple of days). Then, smoothed the patches and applied two coats of barrier paint as a primer. With prep work complete, the worker applied two coats of Trinidad HD to the hull and an extra coat to the areas that usually show wear (the bow, front and bottom of keel, area around the prop, and the rudder). This came out to be 3 gallons of paint (Labor Cost $1200, the job took 9 days to complete the project. It was a start-and-stop process. Not continuous work). Since my boat was out of the water for other reasons during the winter months, there were storage discounts from the yard, which helped mitigate costs.

So, depending on the condition of your boat, the cost of materials, the expense of hauling and temporary storage of a boat, and the location, the $2500 quote may not be too far out of line.

Thank you for the detail.

 

[thinwater]

I do feel very fortunate to boat on the Chesapeake Bay, with hundreds of harbors and countless old-school marinas. Don't take that we don't have rules. Maryland is quite strict on many things related to the Chesapeake Bay, on a par with California in many ways. Google it. But we don't have the marina space crunch.

 

[shemandr]

... They charged me $2500...

That's 2.5 Boat Units. Boat Units sound less painful.
I wouldn't like to get that bill but when you consider time and materials, it's not outrageous. When ever I've purchased a boat I gave the bottom a look over. If it's gnarly I pass knowing the expense of making it right.
I did one boat bottom for a 26' sloop and I won't be repeating that experience - that was 30 years ago.

 

[Calif. Ted]

I usually get bottom paint in February because yard is less busy and it's our winter and I hate cold anyway, Saturday I had 3 layers of clothes, yesterday only 2. I've been using Petit Trindad Pro which WAS still 60+% copper when last available. Now I use best Trindad available and have a local yard that does the work. I get their best job which includes 2 coats with a 3rd on leading edges and at the waterline. You'll recognize these as the areas where the paint wears off first. Last job a couple years ago was $1600. Down here I have a diver clean every month using towels or carpet scraps, no scrapers or 3M pads on the paint. These "clean marina" bottom cleaning practices have extended the life of my paint jobs over earlier more aggressive methods.
When I was in Alameda my slip was half of what it is here so $2500 sounds a little high but prices are getting "weird".
Recently did my standing rigging, last time I got a new set of the sleek. sexy spreader boots for Isomat they were $17.50 a pair. No longer in production and apparently made from the foreskins of virgin Unicorns they are now $75 a pair and scarce at that.

 

[PNWE36]

Hello,
Lots of good advice here. I will add that if you have gone to all the effort of preparing the boat for bottom paint, adding a second coat will be the easiest part of the job. It won't be much effort and is worth it.
Another suggestion. When moving the stands put parchment paper between the stands and the fresh paint to add protection. When doing the final lift the parchment paper will stick to the hull, do not rip it off. If the marina will let you leave it on and let the sea water soak it off and collect it with a boat hook.

 

[sailme88]

ONE MORE THING....I try to sail 4-5 times a week...The water over the hull tends to keep it clean. Clubmate with the same boat and uses the same paint experiences different results as they are weekenders..

 

[Barnacle Bill]

There's so much written material on this site on this topic. Have you done any searches. I've written a lot about bottom painting 101 too.

 

[Urban Hermit]

Bottom paint performance varies greatly in different waters. I'm on the Gulf Coast where our water is far more tropical than the Bay area so my experience is only semi-relevant, but here it is: I used Trinidad exclusively. Per Petit, red is most effective, than black, than either blue or green (I think green is least effective of the four) though I don't know how much difference there is per color. I always put on two coats, the first black, the second red, so that as the paint, ablative and intended to thin over time to keep "fresh" copper on the surface, wears off, black showing through indicated about half the life was gone. I also put two more coats of red along the top six inches. Whatever you do, don't paint the prop with a copper-infused bottom paint even if you prime it first!

I have read that Interlux has a paint that performs better in cooler waters. The experience and advice of local boaters should be valuable.

(I was amused to see reference to "boat units." Yea verily. Doesn't sound nearly so bad to say "That only cost me three-and-a-half boat units." Fellas, I've just returned to boating in a most modest way a decade after selling my last, a Freedom 33 cat-ketch. The Executive Department and I have taken up RVing. I assure you an RV is a boat on wheels. RV units are the same as boat units.)

 

[sailme88]

I have read that Interlux has a paint that performs better in cooler waters. The experience and advice of local boaters should be valuable.

Following the blasting of our hull, I bought into the Interlux program. From 4 coats of System 2000 and into a blue followed by red ablative. Worst bottom paint ever. Reached to the area rep who said " You PROBABLY DID THIS OR THAT WRONG" Nope followed the guideline to the letter. He was supposed to come over, take a paint sample and check out the situation. NEVER hear from him again. Very poor customer service...