Bottom job question

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Oct 15, 2004
163
Oday 34 Wauwatosa, WI
The time has finally come to tackle the bottom of Dawn Treader. She has several layers of old crusty paint all over VC tar. I plan on using VC tar and VC 17. When I am removing the old layers, do I need to remove all the old VC tar if I am reapplying VC tar? I have done about 20 square feet so far - some down to gelcoat, some just down to the tar, and I have not found any blisters yet - the boat has always been a freshwater boat and will continue to be. I believe the original tar was applied when the boat was commisioned in 1984.
 
W

Waffle

I don't understand why you fresh water guys like

VC-17 or VC-Tar. I think it is junk and wouldn't put it on a row boat. If I were a racer and a 1/10 of a knot mean something to me then maybe. It is too much trouble and the fact that you have to redone it makes me think I am right about it. That said TV-Tar is an epoxy based coating and unless it was not applied right I would assume it is ok to leave it on. I would think you would not have to reapply it assuming you put it on right and applied at least 5 coats initially.
 
M

Mike

I would go down to bare fiberglass.

I would go down to bare fiber glass, either by sandblasting or grinding it away. Once that is done, i would apply a barrier coat to the bottom first to prevent osmosis, then apply a bottom paint. I'm not a fan of VC Tar, but the VC-17 is ok i suppose. If it were me, i would go with a modified epoxy or something.
 
Feb 12, 2007
259
Ericson 25 Oshkosh, WI
Scott

Scott- No you do not need to remove all the Tar to re-apply more Tar. If you have 23 years worth of VC on it, just sand it off. Apply Tar as need it. Tar is self-leveling, but not hard for 45+ days. I think we have all of that on the HARD yet here in WI. The only advantage of Tar is that you get a mechanical bond with VC. If you plan on stripping it all off.. Use I2000, less product needed and much easier to apply. BOL, Rob Hessenius
 
Oct 15, 2004
163
Oday 34 Wauwatosa, WI
Thanks for the replies -

just to clarify - the VC tar is a barrier coat that does contain epoxy. The subsequent bottom paint layers on my boat are probably Micron of one variety or another - hence the need to take it off. If it had had VC17 since new, I doubt I would be going through this. Mike and Waffle, what is it you don't like about the VC tar? It seems to have done a good job on our boat - I have not found any blisters yet. Waffle - what is it that is too much trouble about the VC17? I used it on a previous boat and loved it - just roll a coat on before launch (even 1/2 hour before launch) and you're good for another year. What's hard about that? I've got time to change my mind, so let's hear your evidence!
 

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,704
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
Fresh Water

Waffle is in NYC and thus may be sailing in salt water. I have found that up north in the Great Lakes, VC 17 is very popular. It is certainly my choice for the Great Lakes. Like you say, repainting VC17 is about as simple and quick as you can get.
 
D

Doug_Meyer

Interlux Tech support

Go to the interlux website, there is a lot of information downloadable (pdf) including paint compatibility and preparation requiremnets. Those of us in the Great Lakes who use VC17 find it works extremely well for our conditions. We deal mostly with bottom slime (algae) and don't encounter the problems that saltwater sailor do. The nice thing also about VC17 is that prep work season to season is minimal, and you can paint the bottom and launch inside of an hour. you can even get the areas under the cradle pads coated while the boat is in the travel lift slings, just before launch. Its expensive, but for our conditions, its worth it. It goes on well with a roller, but in the wrong kind of conditions, because of its volatility, it will evaporate out of a roller pan faster than you can apply it. Interlux also says that it is sprayable with an airless sprayer and recommends orfice sizes and thinning percentages.
 
Apr 19, 1999
1,670
Pearson Wanderer Titusville, Florida
Why I love VC17

Every so often this thread comes up...in fact if you search the archives you'll find several of my posts about this stuff. First off, everything Doug and Higgs said is true. VC17 goes on VERY fast. I've put the boat in the water within 15 min. of painting (it probably takes a little longer up north because of the cooler temps). I used sail my boat very rarely and keep it on the trailer the rest of the time, and the paint held its effectiveness even if I han't sailed for almost a year. Most antifoulings can't do that. The paint is hard enough to withstand the rigors of trailering. I've left the boat in warm, nutrient-rich salt water (Indian River Lagoon) for eight weeks and found very little growth, just a few tiny barnacles that I could remove with a plastic scraper. In warm, fresh water (St. Johns River) two coats of VC17 lasted almost three years. As mentioned, the paint dries so fast that touch-ups (bow, leading edge of keel and rudder are a breeze. Here's the trick...stir the paint in the can to get the pigmemt off the bottom and into suspension. Pour into a large clear plastic ketchup squeeze bottle (the Heinz 44 oz. is the ideal size). Cut one corner off copper powder packet and pour it into the bottle. Snap the cap shut and shake to mix. To apply the paint, open the snap cap and squeeze what you need onto your brush or roller. The cap can stay open as long as you're painting, because very little solvent evaporates through the small hole. If the copper powder settles, snap the cap shut, shake for a few seconds, then resume painting. When you're done painting, close the cap and that's it. The paint will stay liquid for YEARS as long as the cap stays shut. You don't even need to clean the brush or roller. Next time you need to paint, squeeze some fresh paint onto the dry brush or roller and apply to the hull. The first few strokes will look like crap, but the brush/roller softens quickly and you can go back over the bad areas in a few minutes. No waste. More tricks. I don't use a boot stripe, I just extended the VC17 about four inches above the waterline. The paint only dissolves below the waterline, so you can touch up quickly without having to retape the stripe. Another trick...You don't have to sand VC17 to remove it. It wipes off with a rag or paper towel dampened with acetone or denatured alcohol. Since the paint is thin, you don't need a whole lot of work to remove it. VC Tar isn't really a barrier coat. It's a primer that provides a good bond for the Teflon-based VC17 and it also has good self-leveling properties. In other words, you don't have to sand the hull to baby bottom smoothness, just sand with 150 grit then apply the VC Tar. It levels itself and leaves a mirror finish, which you just scuff very lightly and apply the VC17. If you need a barrier coat, use Interlux 2000E, West System or some other epoxy (I started with Interlux 1000 and finished with Epiglass. For a barrier coat to be effective, you need at least three or four coats. Warning...the powdered copper can be poisonous, the paint is so thin it will go right through most fabrics to the skin and the solvent is pretty nasty, so be careful not to splash too much of this stuff on yourself. Otherwise, someone might scrape you up with a plastic spatula...Good luck. Peter H23 "Raven"
 
Oct 15, 2004
163
Oday 34 Wauwatosa, WI
Interlux says VC tar IS a barrier

here is a quote from their website: VC®Tar2 is a 2-component epoxy primer providing osmosis protection to GRP boats and anticorrosive protection to steel and alloy surfaces... I called Interlux tech support today, and they said that while it is possible to put new tar over old, the problem is that you can't fair the new stuff, so in my case where some areas are going down to gelcoat and some still have tar, I will telegraph the bottom contour into the new tar. They recommended removing all of it just to have a fair surface to start with. Thanks for all the input - still waiting to hear from Waffle and Mike the reasons for their dislike of the VC stuff.
 
W

waffle

Scott, if is made NOT TO STICK!

If you like it use it. I know most of you fresh water people do. We don't!
 
Apr 19, 1999
1,670
Pearson Wanderer Titusville, Florida
VC Tar - for Scott

You're referring to VC Tar2, which I gather is a fairly new product. I did an extensive blister repair/barrier coat almost five years ago using all Interlux products (just to show how long ago that was, Interlux 1000 was still available). At the time the Interlux website suggested VC Tar (I guess that would be the old coal-tar formula) over the regular epoxy barrier coat as a primer for the VC17. It worked great. There's even a new VC17 formula that includes an algaecide and slimeblocker. The formula I used didn't have any... Peter H23 "Raven"
 
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