Boomkicker or topping lift

[kpgraci]

I need something, not having another line aloft has merit, I suppose. If I added a topping lift it would dead end at the masthead, so no line running down the mast, but a boomkicker seems cleaner.

Cost would be about the same for both, but with the topping lift I would have to take down the mast - not a big deal but inconvenient.

 

[Joe11688]

I need something, not having another line aloft has merit, I suppose. If I added a topping lift it would dead end at the masthead, so no line running down the mast, but a boomkicker seems cleaner.

Cost would be about the same for both, but with the topping lift I would have to take down the mast - not a big deal but inconvenient.

My friend Wayne has a boom kicker on his Seaward 22 and he likes it. In fact he had constructed a reasonable looking copy of a Dutchman Boom Brake. Then he discovered that he could use a mountain climbing ascending device called a Super Eight that can perform the same function as the Dutchman.
So getting back to the topping lift; The boom kicker is great because it works without a line coming down from the top of the mast which can wear out parts of the leech of the Mainsail, but a lot of times I have lost my balance and fell against the boom. I fear that this could bend the boom kicker. I feel a lot more secure with a topping lift holding my boom in just that respect alone.
The Boom Kicker also takes up valuable time when setting the mast or tearing it down. Most of the time Wayne has to remove his main halyard shackle and attach it to the back of the boom when he moors his boat. Just using the mainsheet to keep the boom stationery is not too good for the boom kicker without an extra halyard to hold the boom.

Last Wednesday, I removed my Gennie from the furler and I also removed my boom with the sail and the cover and put it into the cabin because of the impending hurricane. Having the topping lift attached to the back of the boom is like having a second pair of hands helping me get the boom inside the cabin. If you've ever done any trailer sailing, the set up time is cut in half by being able to do this. After you get the mast up at the boat ramp, you only need to attach the topping lift to the back of the boom and lead the boom out of the cabin and hook it up the goose neck attachment on the mast. The sail is already for the mast track after the main sheet is attached to the boom.

Boom kickers are great, but if you accidently fall against it you're going to bend it or break it. I weigh about 200 and I know that I could do a number on it without trying.
A lot of times I'll be out on the river or the bay with the sail up and the wind will die on me so I'll start the engine and put the autopilot on and walk forward to the mast, take up on the topping lift, drop the sail and start furling it. Then I'll put the cover on while she's motoring ahead. It's good to be able to use that boom to steady and support myself while I'm performing these tasks. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it with a boom kicker supporting the boom. These are my thoughts about boom kickers and topping lifts Ken. Whatever you decide is your call. I only know what works for me.
Joe

 

[kpgraci]

You make some good points. I'm actually leaning toward the topping lift for some perhaps quirky reasoning...I like 'traditional' or 'classic' solutions in general, and topping lift wins that category in my mind. I too was concerned about 'falling' or otherwise putting my weight on the boom and damaging the boomkicker. At dock I would still use the back stay pig-tail to support and center the boom, so a wash on that one. The topping lift would be a bit cheaper, but not by much. I'm not thrilled about extra complexity at the boom-mast vs a line well out of the way with the topping lift. On bigger boats (not sure how this benefits me) the boom-topping lift can be used as a hoist, my dock mate used his boom to pull his motor out and swing it over to the dock.

So I've not decided yet but I'm giving the topping lift a slight edge so far, although this seems the opposite of progress.

 

[FourPoints]

either a boom kicker or rigid vang will actually give performance benefits over a topping lift as they will life the boom up and reduce the effective weight of the boom hanging off the bottom of the sail to zero, allowing much better light air sail shape. You could use the topping lift to do the same, but then it's going to interfere with the leech, and it's much harder to adjust, espicially when you need to crank down on the vang. In heavy air there is more than enough wind to support the boom weight so it isn't much of a benefit.

I replaced my topping lift with a rigid vang, one of the best upgrades I have done to the boat as far as performance and handleing goes. Depending on the wind conditions I sometimes think I like the rigid vang even more than my new sails!

 

[Kings Gambit]

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[Joe11688]

You make some good points. I'm actually leaning toward the topping lift for some perhaps quirky reasoning...I like 'traditional' or 'classic' solutions in general, and topping lift wins that category in my mind. I too was concerned about 'falling' or otherwise putting my weight on the boom and damaging the boomkicker. At dock I would still use the back stay pig-tail to support and center the boom, so a wash on that one. The topping lift would be a bit cheaper, but not by much. I'm not thrilled about extra complexity at the boom-mast vs a line well out of the way with the topping lift. On bigger boats (not sure how this benefits me) the boom-topping lift can be used as a hoist, my dock mate used his boom to pull his motor out and swing it over to the dock.

So I've not decided yet but I'm giving the topping lift a slight edge so far, although this seems the opposite of progress.

Perhaps I've inherited my way of thinking when it comes to sailboat hardware from the eight years that I trailered my boat when I first bought it. I wanted things fast and easy and was ready to adopt the KISS approach. I know for a fact that if I was still trailering today I wouldn't have a CDI roller furler right now but I was willing to make concessions when I found out that I could raise my mast with a Gin Pole with the furler connected without any help. Being a Geezer, I feel that the extra time and effort that goes into mast raising/lowering is well worth it when you consider the ease and safety that a furler can provide.
With this said, I draw the line when it comes to topping lifts verses boom kickers for the reasons that I just gave.
I have decided to install a home built boom brake. In fact I just ordered a mountain climber's Black Diamond Super 8 last night on line. I have the rope and sheaves needed to install it on my boat. A boom brake isn't really a necessity that needs to be installed after mast raising like a boom kicker. It can be rigged anytime at my leisure.
Don't let me talk you out of getting a boom kicker Ken.
If I really wanted a boom kicker I would buy one, but I guarantee you that I would think of a way to be able to connect and disconnect it using press button quick pins or something of that nature.
I watch Wayne connecting and disconnecting his every year and he does a lot of swearing and cursing, not just at the boom kicker but everything that has to do with rigging and unrigging his boat twice a year. He's getting to a point where he wants to get rid of the 22 and buy something smaller but if you think about it, a 22 is a small boat. It's just those extra goodies that we add to them that makes life miserable when we have to rig and unrig them, but it doesn't have to be that way though.
I'm using quick release shackles on my mainsheet blocks and boom vang, and a press button quick pin for my furler drum, plus a Johnson Handy-Lock on my back stay.
Last Thursday it took me approximately 20 minutes to take my mast down at the dock. I had taken the Gennie off the furler luff and removed the boom with sail and cover attached and stowed it in the cabin the previous day when I heard about Irene. I got my boat home and I was completely exhausted at the end of the day but at my age, it goes with the territory.

 

[tommyegbert]

boom ???

I need something, not having another line aloft has merit, I suppose. If I added a topping lift it would dead end at the masthead, so no line running down the mast, but a boomkicker seems cleaner.

Cost would be about the same for both, but with the topping lift I would have to take down the mast - not a big deal but inconvenient.

On my Nimble Kodiak '27, I am confused about how to rig the main. I have two halyards- port and starboard. The tail of the boom is held in place with a wire from the top of the mast and a sheet at the tiller that I think is the boom vang??? When the wire is released the boom is no longer supported.
the starboard halyard (or sheet) trails aft to the cockpit; the port has a connector that I was told by the previous owner should connect to the end aft end of the boom replacing the wire one. One problem is the connector is on the forward side of the mast ( so to connect it to the boom would imply a twist around the top of the mast. I am thinkiing that maybe the port halyard should raise the mainsail and the starboard should connect to the boom and help control it from the cockpit??? Anxious to get going!!

 

[FourPoints]

The tail of the boom is held in place with a wire from the top of the mast and a sheet at the tiller that I think is the boom vang??? When the wire is released the boom is no longer supported.

wire attached to the end of the boom sounds like it is your topping lift, and the line from the tiller to the boom would be your main sheet (I think you have the same main sheet setup as an old 14' starcraft tunnel hulll scow I had growing up, with a block on the tiller just forward of the hinge so if you fall overboard, the tiller will be pulled by the main to leeward as to cause the boat to round up)

a vang would go from the base of the mast back up to the boom at roughly a 45deg angle, and the purpose is to pull the boom down when you start to let the main sheet out as it no longer pulls the boom down

 

[Merlin Clark]

On my Nimble Kodiak '27, I am confused about how to rig the main. I have two halyards- port and starboard. The tail of the boom is held in place with a wire from the top of the mast and a sheet at the tiller that I think is the boom vang??? When the wire is released the boom is no longer supported.
the starboard halyard (or sheet) trails aft to the cockpit; the port has a connector that I was told by the previous owner should connect to the end aft end of the boom replacing the wire one. One problem is the connector is on the forward side of the mast ( so to connect it to the boom would imply a twist around the top of the mast. I am thinkiing that maybe the port halyard should raise the mainsail and the starboard should connect to the boom and help control it from the cockpit??? Anxious to get going!!

It sounds like your halyards (used to raise sails) are run back to allow the crew to raise the sails from the cockpit. This is a good thing as long as you keep track of what goes where. There should be one halyard coming down the back of the mast for the mainsail and one coming down the front of the mast for the foresail (jib or genoa). If you have a furler installed the halyard is probably in use hold the jib up in the furler track.
There may be another halyard foreward (of the mast) for using a spinnaker, if you have one leave this sail in the bag until you become proficient sailing with jib and main.
Sheets are use to control the sails once they have been hoisted by use of the halyards. There will be two on the back corner (clew) of the jib and these are run down each side of the boat. There is one mainsheet which connects the boom to the cockpit (many boats and I think yours) and this will have a multi- pulley "block" at each end which allows for mechanical advantage over the the force exerted by the of the sail.
Below is a simple picture of the parts of a small boat. This should help with nomenclature of the various parts of a sailboat.
Rather than take it out by yourself, I suggest snagging a friend that knows sailing and taking them along. Better yet, a sailing course would help to get you on the water with confidence much faster than anything else.

 

[Red Ryder]

How much does a topping lift effect the performance of a boat? Does it really impact one.s performance? I usually sail by myself and when I drop the main the topping lift holds my boom. I understand the purpose of a boom brake or Super Eight... but am I to understand that is could be an alternative for a topping lift, if so please explain. It appears to me that those of us who are more traditional prefer the topping lift... and others the boom kicker.

 

[FourPoints]

aside from the slight additional weight and windage aloft, a topping lift doesn't hurt performance one bit, at the same time, it also doesn't help performance (unless you always keep it taught and constantly adjust it)...

A boom kicker, rigid vang, or any other way you choose to support the weight of the boom independent of the sail (which could include the topping lift, but for most people rairly does), you can actually gain performance.

The weight of the boom pulls the clew of the sail down, tightening the leech, so until you have enough wind where you are cranking down on the vang for the purpose of tightening the leech, the boom is actually hurting sail shape by doing something you don't want. Once the wind picks up past 8-10 kts, for most boats there is no advantage to a boom kicker or rigid vang over a topping lift. It is the light air that it can really help.

 

[Red Ryder]

Other in a gyb, how does a boom brake or Super Eight fit into this discussion of boom kicker or topping lift?

 

[Joe11688]

Other in a gyb, how does a boom brake or Super Eight fit into this discussion of boom kicker or topping lift?

It doesn't. I'm planning on installing a boom brake on my boat next year. I'm just pointing out that you need a boom vang or a boom kicker to work with the boom brake. As much as I try to avoid adding extra hardware on my boat that will slow the rigging process at the ramp, the boom brake can be installed anytime at my leisure as long as I have my topping lift to hold my boom. With a boom kicker, which not only takes the place of a boom vang but also a topping lift, this isn't the case. It has to be attached to the boom and the mast, which would take more time to rig my boat.

 

[Red Ryder]

Thanks for the clarification RE: boom brake... so the topping lift does have its advantages in certain applications.

 

[FourPoints]

...a boom kicker, which not only takes the place of a boom vang but also a topping lift...

a boom kicker does NOT take the place of a vang, it does however work in conjunction with the vang to eliminate the need for a topping lift.

boom kicker is nothing more than a fiberglass spring, not too much different than a typical batten in construction, that holds the weight of the boom up. The vang pulls the boom down to counteract the force of the wind lifting the sail. When the two are combined into a single unit, it becomes known as a rigid vang (still spring loaded with a metal compression spring), or for larger boats, it is a hydraulic vang (replacing the compression spring with a hydraulic cylinder)

 

[Joe11688]

a boom kicker does NOT take the place of a vang, it does however work in conjunction with the vang to eliminate the need for a topping lift.

You're right and I stand corrected, but I still wouldn't want one on my boat for the reason given.