OK so I had the big bad news handed to me regarding my boat. We're in dire need of standing rigging to start with. So I need to know how much of this stuff I need to buy for a 1969 Columbia 28. Long story short, there's no sailing for the girl until that happens. And then the engine. The Atomic 4 is a rusted piece of crap. Thats what happens when one isn't started for 5 years and the zincs aren't changed. Something I didn't know when I bought it. Yanmar has been recomended. I'm going diesel... probably. But first things first. I need to know how much standing rigging I need to buy... Devian
Bollocks!!
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Re: Bolloacks/Not the end of the world
Devian, If your turnbuckles are in good shape, the shrouds and stays are really not that expensive. You can probably have all new shrouds and stays built and installed for around $1000. Not pocket change, but certainly less than new sails, or even new upholstery. As to the engine, look at Beta Marine. They have lots of experience with conversions from Atomic 4's, and Columbias.You might consider a used Atomic if the budget is tight. There are usually rebuilts available for reasonable prices. Check the Consignment stores for the engine and rigging parts. Are you sure that the engine is shot and not just in need of some major tlc? Have you tried filling the cylinders with oil to see if you can free up the pistons? Atomic fours are really simple engines to work on and there is alot of info out there if you take tht time to look. Just my opinion. Larry
Devian, If your turnbuckles are in good shape, the shrouds and stays are really not that expensive. You can probably have all new shrouds and stays built and installed for around $1000. Not pocket change, but certainly less than new sails, or even new upholstery. As to the engine, look at Beta Marine. They have lots of experience with conversions from Atomic 4's, and Columbias.You might consider a used Atomic if the budget is tight. There are usually rebuilts available for reasonable prices. Check the Consignment stores for the engine and rigging parts. Are you sure that the engine is shot and not just in need of some major tlc? Have you tried filling the cylinders with oil to see if you can free up the pistons? Atomic fours are really simple engines to work on and there is alot of info out there if you take tht time to look. Just my opinion. Larry
Devian,help awaits
Devian, Email me and I'll put you in touch with some folks out your way that can help. Other Columbia owners that have had the same issues as you. Larry Wilson Radicalcy At Yahoo dot com
Devian, Email me and I'll put you in touch with some folks out your way that can help. Other Columbia owners that have had the same issues as you. Larry Wilson Radicalcy At Yahoo dot com
Wow..
I just checked Yachtworld and prices for late 60's Columbia 28's range from a low of $2500.00 to a high, for a supposedly pristine remodeled and restored example, of 10K (it may sell for 8k or 9k). You're considering putting more money into this boat, in just rigging and and engine, than it's potentially worth. You might consider cutting your losses and selling it as is. Take the money you get and combine it with what you would have spent on rigging and a new motor and think about a new boat that does not need that amount of work. Converting to diesel will run you 10K+, if you pay to have it done, and rigging could run $1000.00 to $1800.00 depending.. Even if you use Sta-Locs, Norsemans or Hi-Mods, and make the rigging yourself, the fittings alone are now running about $45.00 - $55.00 each. You most likely have 16 swages or mechanical termination points on your boat (2 head stay, 2 back stay, 4 for the uppers and 8 for the lowers). 316 1/4 inch 1X19 wire is running about $1.60 - $2.00+ per foot. This size, 1/4", is possibly the size used on your boat but it could be 7/32 too. 1/4 inch turnbuckles are running between $45.00 and $60.00ea depending upon configuration.
I just checked Yachtworld and prices for late 60's Columbia 28's range from a low of $2500.00 to a high, for a supposedly pristine remodeled and restored example, of 10K (it may sell for 8k or 9k). You're considering putting more money into this boat, in just rigging and and engine, than it's potentially worth. You might consider cutting your losses and selling it as is. Take the money you get and combine it with what you would have spent on rigging and a new motor and think about a new boat that does not need that amount of work. Converting to diesel will run you 10K+, if you pay to have it done, and rigging could run $1000.00 to $1800.00 depending.. Even if you use Sta-Locs, Norsemans or Hi-Mods, and make the rigging yourself, the fittings alone are now running about $45.00 - $55.00 each. You most likely have 16 swages or mechanical termination points on your boat (2 head stay, 2 back stay, 4 for the uppers and 8 for the lowers). 316 1/4 inch 1X19 wire is running about $1.60 - $2.00+ per foot. This size, 1/4", is possibly the size used on your boat but it could be 7/32 too. 1/4 inch turnbuckles are running between $45.00 and $60.00ea depending upon configuration.
If you want to do it on the cheap
you can go with galvanized wire rope and thimbles and clips and galvanized turnbuckles and do it your self for a couple of hundred. Used engines are everywhere so if you are a mechanic you can repower for a little money and a lot of work.
you can go with galvanized wire rope and thimbles and clips and galvanized turnbuckles and do it your self for a couple of hundred. Used engines are everywhere so if you are a mechanic you can repower for a little money and a lot of work.
I second most of the responses so far Devian
Mostly I agree with Larry Wilson. It would seem that you bought this boat without a survey or if it was surveyed than you will never use that surveyor again. The standing rigging issues (at a minimum) would have showed up on the survey if not potential engine problems. I would suggest that you do a self survey of the chainplates (the points at which the shrouds/stays attach to the hull) BEFORE you even attempt re-doing or having the rigging re-done. This can be an issue with older boats like my 1967 Tartan 27' - fortunately for us our Atomic 4 was and is still working. They are hard to kill. Use Marvel Mystery Oil by the quart to soak the cylinders and ALL rusted fittings, bolts, exterior to clean up the engine (it actually removes and retards the rust while smelling like peppermint) and comes highly recommended by A4 guru Don Moyer (see his website and forums - you should join his forum before giving up on your engine). http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/index.php Moyer also sells newly re-furbished A4's which would probably cost less than the Beta Marine (marine-ised Kubota diesel) and you wont have to change your fuel tank and fittings changeover to boot. You could also buy someones (nearly) working A4 for a lot cheaper than any sort of diesel conversion. Check sailnet, craigslist, moyermarine etc for used and rebuilt engines. Maine Sail is absolutely correct about the cost of an engine replacement if a little under the mark in terms of total cost of conversion (don't forget the tank and perhaps even a new shaft ...). Remember, rust on the outside of an engine does not necessarily mean that the inside is in the same condition if there was any oil left in it. Overall, I feel your pain, but they do not make boats like they used to so it is worth investigating/learning and doing a little dirty work to make this puppy a working boat (you will not likely get your investment back when it is time to sell which is why Maine Sail also said: 'run, do not walk, away from this boat'). But now it is yours and you are likely to be liable for yard/dock fees for it and good luck selling it without a working engine. Or, just go for a sail anyway and see if the rigging breaks or not. Is the mast keel or deck stepped? Any photos? Good luck and don't panic just yet.
Mostly I agree with Larry Wilson. It would seem that you bought this boat without a survey or if it was surveyed than you will never use that surveyor again. The standing rigging issues (at a minimum) would have showed up on the survey if not potential engine problems. I would suggest that you do a self survey of the chainplates (the points at which the shrouds/stays attach to the hull) BEFORE you even attempt re-doing or having the rigging re-done. This can be an issue with older boats like my 1967 Tartan 27' - fortunately for us our Atomic 4 was and is still working. They are hard to kill. Use Marvel Mystery Oil by the quart to soak the cylinders and ALL rusted fittings, bolts, exterior to clean up the engine (it actually removes and retards the rust while smelling like peppermint) and comes highly recommended by A4 guru Don Moyer (see his website and forums - you should join his forum before giving up on your engine). http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/index.php Moyer also sells newly re-furbished A4's which would probably cost less than the Beta Marine (marine-ised Kubota diesel) and you wont have to change your fuel tank and fittings changeover to boot. You could also buy someones (nearly) working A4 for a lot cheaper than any sort of diesel conversion. Check sailnet, craigslist, moyermarine etc for used and rebuilt engines. Maine Sail is absolutely correct about the cost of an engine replacement if a little under the mark in terms of total cost of conversion (don't forget the tank and perhaps even a new shaft ...). Remember, rust on the outside of an engine does not necessarily mean that the inside is in the same condition if there was any oil left in it. Overall, I feel your pain, but they do not make boats like they used to so it is worth investigating/learning and doing a little dirty work to make this puppy a working boat (you will not likely get your investment back when it is time to sell which is why Maine Sail also said: 'run, do not walk, away from this boat'). But now it is yours and you are likely to be liable for yard/dock fees for it and good luck selling it without a working engine. Or, just go for a sail anyway and see if the rigging breaks or not. Is the mast keel or deck stepped? Any photos? Good luck and don't panic just yet.
Outboatd?
If the rigging is fine, just remove the old piece of dead weight iron and plug the hole. Hang a cheap used outboard on the back and try sailing. If you like the sailing life style, use the lesson learned and buy a better boat next time. Don't skim on the surveyor. The $300-$400 fees will save you thoudsands. If you did use a surveyor, go after him/her. The poor job will cost the license. Don't get sentimental with a boat. A 30+ years old boat needs a lot of work, time and money to upgrade. Deck moisture damage which you can't see, Thru-hulls, instruments, sail, woodwork, bilge pump, lights, wiring, electrical, lines and blocks etc. etc. Even for a newer boat, it is still a sink hole for money.
If the rigging is fine, just remove the old piece of dead weight iron and plug the hole. Hang a cheap used outboard on the back and try sailing. If you like the sailing life style, use the lesson learned and buy a better boat next time. Don't skim on the surveyor. The $300-$400 fees will save you thoudsands. If you did use a surveyor, go after him/her. The poor job will cost the license. Don't get sentimental with a boat. A 30+ years old boat needs a lot of work, time and money to upgrade. Deck moisture damage which you can't see, Thru-hulls, instruments, sail, woodwork, bilge pump, lights, wiring, electrical, lines and blocks etc. etc. Even for a newer boat, it is still a sink hole for money.
I haven't seen your boat,
so I don't really know how bad things may be, but my first serious cruising boat was an old Columbia 28 with an ancient Atomic 4. That boat, perhaps like your boat, took a lot of pretty constant TLC to keep sailing. But it was a terrific boat that returned a lot of sailing pleasure. I did my first circumnav of the DelMarVa penninsula in that boat and it was one of the best sailing trips I ever took. The only electronics I had then was an ancient VHF and an analog depth finder. If your boat is basically sound, you can do a lot yourself to bring it up to seaworthiness. Measure your old standing rigging and either do it yourself as indicated by a number of posters below, or just send the whole thing to either Defender or West Marine and have them duplicate it for you. I really never liked the old gas Atomic 4 in my boat, but you may be able to do a lot with it rather than going for a very expensive replacement diesel. There are all kinds of solid state upgrade kits for the electronics/ignition available. I would also discuss your engine with Moyer Marine (see link) to see if it's a candidate for rebuilding. Moyer does wonders with old Atomic 4's and all of it cheaper than a total repower job. So if your boat is basically sound, fixing it up may be worth the effort as these are great old boats. But if your boat has passed that point of no return, it may be better to move on and get something more seaworthy. Only you can make that decision.
so I don't really know how bad things may be, but my first serious cruising boat was an old Columbia 28 with an ancient Atomic 4. That boat, perhaps like your boat, took a lot of pretty constant TLC to keep sailing. But it was a terrific boat that returned a lot of sailing pleasure. I did my first circumnav of the DelMarVa penninsula in that boat and it was one of the best sailing trips I ever took. The only electronics I had then was an ancient VHF and an analog depth finder. If your boat is basically sound, you can do a lot yourself to bring it up to seaworthiness. Measure your old standing rigging and either do it yourself as indicated by a number of posters below, or just send the whole thing to either Defender or West Marine and have them duplicate it for you. I really never liked the old gas Atomic 4 in my boat, but you may be able to do a lot with it rather than going for a very expensive replacement diesel. There are all kinds of solid state upgrade kits for the electronics/ignition available. I would also discuss your engine with Moyer Marine (see link) to see if it's a candidate for rebuilding. Moyer does wonders with old Atomic 4's and all of it cheaper than a total repower job. So if your boat is basically sound, fixing it up may be worth the effort as these are great old boats. But if your boat has passed that point of no return, it may be better to move on and get something more seaworthy. Only you can make that decision.
Devian , Will the engine turn? If it isn'T frozen up (rusted)
inside. The water that was in it should have been neutralized in five years and the engine may be able to be resuscitated. It is certainly worth the effort to find out. I was quite serious about galanized wire rope for your standing rigging.
inside. The water that was in it should have been neutralized in five years and the engine may be able to be resuscitated. It is certainly worth the effort to find out. I was quite serious about galanized wire rope for your standing rigging.
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