i have an uncle who's introducing me to others in his yacht club. i'm hoping to get on one of their racing teams, learn a lot about handling a boat and then sell off a lot of munis and buy my own. there's a lot to know as a beginner and i want to do as much research as i can early on. what do you suggest? Clint
- Status
3 Suggestions
First, Chapman's Piloting. Second, Sailing Illustrated by Royce (both good general references). Third, never, under any circumstances, admit in this forum that you have not closed all seacocks.
First, Chapman's Piloting. Second, Sailing Illustrated by Royce (both good general references). Third, never, under any circumstances, admit in this forum that you have not closed all seacocks.
Figure out how you will use it
There is no "right" boat. There are right boats for specific purposes.
There is no "right" boat. There are right boats for specific purposes.
Welcome to the Sailing Fraternity/Sorority
Clint, Congratulations on your interest in sailing. For most of us who frequent this site, sailing is a passion, and we hope you will enjoy it as much. An important part of enjoying sailing is learning the right way in a supportive, low key environment. I don't think that I speak out of turn when I say that racing is not necessarily such an environment. Usually racers get pretty keyed up about the competition and can be pretty unforgiving about mistakes that they think may cost them time. The American Sailing Association has a good learn to sail program in several steps. Their beginner book is written by Gary Jobson and I'm sure is available through Amazon.com (maybe on this site too?). It's on my boat or I would give you the name. The ASA certifies a number of schools across the country that teach various levels of sailing courses. I'm sure there's one in Southern CA. Or how about your uncle? Hopefully this is helpful. Good luck and remember this is supposed to be fun!!! Gary Wyngarden s/v Shibumi
Clint, Congratulations on your interest in sailing. For most of us who frequent this site, sailing is a passion, and we hope you will enjoy it as much. An important part of enjoying sailing is learning the right way in a supportive, low key environment. I don't think that I speak out of turn when I say that racing is not necessarily such an environment. Usually racers get pretty keyed up about the competition and can be pretty unforgiving about mistakes that they think may cost them time. The American Sailing Association has a good learn to sail program in several steps. Their beginner book is written by Gary Jobson and I'm sure is available through Amazon.com (maybe on this site too?). It's on my boat or I would give you the name. The ASA certifies a number of schools across the country that teach various levels of sailing courses. I'm sure there's one in Southern CA. Or how about your uncle? Hopefully this is helpful. Good luck and remember this is supposed to be fun!!! Gary Wyngarden s/v Shibumi
Safety class
In addition to being new at sailing you are new "on the water" I recommend the Coast Gaurd Aux Boating Safety Course. Cheap and safety blended with common sense never hurt any sailor. (nice being able to show the card if ever boarded for inspection .... shows that you are safety conscious.) IMHO
In addition to being new at sailing you are new "on the water" I recommend the Coast Gaurd Aux Boating Safety Course. Cheap and safety blended with common sense never hurt any sailor. (nice being able to show the card if ever boarded for inspection .... shows that you are safety conscious.) IMHO
Stick with other people's boats <grin>
Boat owners are always telling me to use other peoples boats. You get all the fun without the bills. Of course, I didn't listen and am buying my own
Just remember the name BOAT Break Out Another Thousand. Enjoy sailing and lot's of luck. Les Murray s/v Limerick
Boat owners are always telling me to use other peoples boats. You get all the fun without the bills. Of course, I didn't listen and am buying my own
Just remember the name BOAT Break Out Another Thousand. Enjoy sailing and lot's of luck. Les Murray s/v LimerickLearn to Sail
Clint, first of all, never turn down an offer to go sailing. Crewing on a club racing boat is a great experience because you are around a lot of stoked sailors. However, until you learn to sail you will just be "rail meat" and not get much chance to actually do any sailing. I most emphatically recommend that you enroll in sailing classes, either at the yacht club, local community college or commercial sailing school. J-World in San Diego has highly regarded, intensive programs aimed at all sailing levels. Wouldn't that be a nice mini-vacation? Get a copy of the Annapolis Book of Seamanship. Start reading the sailing rags like Sail, Sailing, Cruising World etc. Learn to sail on small boats like sabots, lido 14's, laser's.... you'll gain a lot of confidence, plus have a lot of fun. Just do it!!!
Clint, first of all, never turn down an offer to go sailing. Crewing on a club racing boat is a great experience because you are around a lot of stoked sailors. However, until you learn to sail you will just be "rail meat" and not get much chance to actually do any sailing. I most emphatically recommend that you enroll in sailing classes, either at the yacht club, local community college or commercial sailing school. J-World in San Diego has highly regarded, intensive programs aimed at all sailing levels. Wouldn't that be a nice mini-vacation? Get a copy of the Annapolis Book of Seamanship. Start reading the sailing rags like Sail, Sailing, Cruising World etc. Learn to sail on small boats like sabots, lido 14's, laser's.... you'll gain a lot of confidence, plus have a lot of fun. Just do it!!!
Two Cents Worth
Let me add my two cents worth. Buy the Annapolis Book of Sailing and take the USCG Aux. safety course. The advice to spend some time in sabots and/or lasers is also good. Don't let the intensity of racing get to you. Some racers are so competitive that they take most of the fun out of sailing. The best way to get invited back is to stick around after the sail and help out with the chores, washing down the boat, stowing gear cleaning up the trash etc. Volunteering for these chores will make you a favored guest sailor. Most of all, have fun.
Let me add my two cents worth. Buy the Annapolis Book of Sailing and take the USCG Aux. safety course. The advice to spend some time in sabots and/or lasers is also good. Don't let the intensity of racing get to you. Some racers are so competitive that they take most of the fun out of sailing. The best way to get invited back is to stick around after the sail and help out with the chores, washing down the boat, stowing gear cleaning up the trash etc. Volunteering for these chores will make you a favored guest sailor. Most of all, have fun.
I second (third?) the Annapolis Book of Seamanship
Not to mention that the Coast Guard Aux Boating Safety Course will generally get you about a 15% discount on your boat insurance. Tom M.
Not to mention that the Coast Guard Aux Boating Safety Course will generally get you about a 15% discount on your boat insurance. Tom M.
If you have a place to keep a small boat;
Consider buying a small ( ~12') used sailboat if you have someplace to keep it. You could pick one up for not much more than a couple thousand. Practice sailing on it. Your mistakes won't be so expensive. Read a lot. After you learn the basics you can make a heftier investment, you'll know more what to get, and be less likely to do something with hefty consequences. If you are thinking about eventually getting a cruising sailboat, knowing how the multiple systems (AC, DC, freshwater, diesels, rigging, etc) work is as important as having good sailing skills. A book like Nigel Calder's "Boat Owners Mechanical and Electrical Manual" is a good way to learn the basics of how basic boat systems work.
Consider buying a small ( ~12') used sailboat if you have someplace to keep it. You could pick one up for not much more than a couple thousand. Practice sailing on it. Your mistakes won't be so expensive. Read a lot. After you learn the basics you can make a heftier investment, you'll know more what to get, and be less likely to do something with hefty consequences. If you are thinking about eventually getting a cruising sailboat, knowing how the multiple systems (AC, DC, freshwater, diesels, rigging, etc) work is as important as having good sailing skills. A book like Nigel Calder's "Boat Owners Mechanical and Electrical Manual" is a good way to learn the basics of how basic boat systems work.
Learning Curve
We second the comments on the USCG courses; the basic ones are good (safety and basics come first!), and if your are at all interested in cruising, some flotillas teach basic and advanced navigation. We took them all, and they were great! We also second the Annapolis book and Nigel Calder's book. Both are long-term books; the more experience we get, the more we keep going back to those books and learning more. Find a yacht/boat club that offers courses; some clubs offer structured programs such as ASA or US Sailing; we did the ASA program, and feel that we really benefitted from it. Find a club that owns a bunch of Solings, Sonars, or similar and, as soon as they will let you, get out by yourself and start screwing up! After a point it's the only way. Make the learning curve as steep as you dare. Start SOPB'ing (Sail Other People's Boats) as much as possible, and different boats. You may not want to hear this, but we would recommend doing this for several YEARS. Pay lots of attention to what you like and don't like about different boats. Listen to anyone who will talk to you about different boats; listen, but don't believe ANY of them (excepting the denizens of this website, of course! :>)). Read a couple of books on boat surveying, then start looking. Find something you like. Listen to all the "experts" again, but still don't believe any of them. Then listen to yourself and everything that you have learned. When you think you've got it, have it professionally surveyed (!!!).
We second the comments on the USCG courses; the basic ones are good (safety and basics come first!), and if your are at all interested in cruising, some flotillas teach basic and advanced navigation. We took them all, and they were great! We also second the Annapolis book and Nigel Calder's book. Both are long-term books; the more experience we get, the more we keep going back to those books and learning more. Find a yacht/boat club that offers courses; some clubs offer structured programs such as ASA or US Sailing; we did the ASA program, and feel that we really benefitted from it. Find a club that owns a bunch of Solings, Sonars, or similar and, as soon as they will let you, get out by yourself and start screwing up! After a point it's the only way. Make the learning curve as steep as you dare. Start SOPB'ing (Sail Other People's Boats) as much as possible, and different boats. You may not want to hear this, but we would recommend doing this for several YEARS. Pay lots of attention to what you like and don't like about different boats. Listen to anyone who will talk to you about different boats; listen, but don't believe ANY of them (excepting the denizens of this website, of course! :>)). Read a couple of books on boat surveying, then start looking. Find something you like. Listen to all the "experts" again, but still don't believe any of them. Then listen to yourself and everything that you have learned. When you think you've got it, have it professionally surveyed (!!!).
RACE, RACE, RACE
If you want to learn a lot about sailing and learn fast then RACE!!!! Racing will teach you faster than any other way. When you race don't get stuck at any one position. Do deck work, learn to dip the pole, learn end-for-end jibing and do a lot of winching. Always watch the tactician and captain and realize why and when they deploy their tactics. Pick their brains on their stratergy and NEVER take your eyes off the sails..Learn how to hoist a spinnaker and how to peel a jib going to weather. Sail often and sail hard and the learning curve will be short.. Best of luck. (except against me) Gary
If you want to learn a lot about sailing and learn fast then RACE!!!! Racing will teach you faster than any other way. When you race don't get stuck at any one position. Do deck work, learn to dip the pole, learn end-for-end jibing and do a lot of winching. Always watch the tactician and captain and realize why and when they deploy their tactics. Pick their brains on their stratergy and NEVER take your eyes off the sails..Learn how to hoist a spinnaker and how to peel a jib going to weather. Sail often and sail hard and the learning curve will be short.. Best of luck. (except against me) Gary
Getting started
Getting started Dear Clint: Welcome to sailing ! The number of responses you have gotten should let you know what a great communjity the sailing community is. The other responses you have recieved (I've read most of them) all contain good advice, so I hope you won't mind a bit more. As a long time yacht club member , sailor, racer and instructor I can tell you from my own experience what I would like to see a new sailor doing. First and foremost, the obvious thing is to learn how to sail, and the best and quickest way to learn is to take sailing lessons. I started sailing when I was 30. I found, and I expect you might as well, that I learned more in a week of lessons from a reputable sailing school than I could pick up in three years of trial and error learning on my own. If the skippers you are going to sail with know that you have taken lessons they at least will know that they are not dealing with a complete novice. They'll know that your serious about learning to sail and that you also are bringing something to the party. It's reassuring to a skipper to know that the crew can keep their port straight from their sherry! Start with sailing lessons. Sail with every skipper who will have you - you'll learn something from all of them, especially the bad ones! After a year of sailing volunteer for a day or two on the race committee. With the experience you'll then have you'll be amazed at how much you'll learn standing on the barge watching from a fixed position. You'll quickly see whose fast, and why, and whose slow, and why. Now about cashing in those muni's - whoa there big fella! The boat you can afford is the boat you can pay cash for now, without taking a loan or imparing your capital. How much have you got in the savings account right now? That's the price range to start with. If you want to set some current income aside towards a boat in the future great, but let's not get too excited right away. The reason I say this isn't because I don't think you can afford a boat, but because I know that every experienced sailor will tell you the same thing: no matter how much research and thinking you do about the boat and what you will use it for the chances are over 90% that the first boat you buy will be the wrong one for you! On that note it behooves one to proceed with caution. A good route to follow if you are determined to have a boat is to buy a used one that is part of the largest fleet in your club. You'll likely not to badly on the condition of the boat and because it is part of the largest fleet sailed in the club there will be a market for it of people you know when it comes time to sell it. Here's a tip: if your going racing, by a boat in a one design fleet. The racing is closer and more satisfying, you'll learn more quickly than if you a re racing in a PHRF fleet, and the potential market for your boat will be better. A great starter boat if racing is your goal is a J -24. The fleet is huge, the competition both fierce and fun and there is a good market for the boat. Furthermore you can pick up a hotly competitive used boat with bags of sails and gear for under $15,000.00, and you can't beat that with a stick! Remeber, the smaller the boat, the bigger the bang for the buck. On a personall note, when it comes to learning to sail, you can't beat dinghies. If your club has a racing class of dinghies I would definitely recommend you start their. This is the rule: A good dinghy sailor can always sail a big boat, but a big boat sailor can't always sail a dinghy. On a one or two person boat you get to be the skipper right away, making both the strategic and tactical decisions. You can alternate racing on club member boats with racing your dinghy and apply the lessons across the board. The advantage dinghies have as a learning platform is that they are instantly responsive: change the sail trim and you know right away if your going faster or slower. This is a whole lot longer than I planned for it to be, and could be longer still, but I hope my own prejudices will at least give you something to think about. Fair winds, Brian Pickton aboard The Legend, Rodney Bay, St. Lucia, West Indies.
Getting started Dear Clint: Welcome to sailing ! The number of responses you have gotten should let you know what a great communjity the sailing community is. The other responses you have recieved (I've read most of them) all contain good advice, so I hope you won't mind a bit more. As a long time yacht club member , sailor, racer and instructor I can tell you from my own experience what I would like to see a new sailor doing. First and foremost, the obvious thing is to learn how to sail, and the best and quickest way to learn is to take sailing lessons. I started sailing when I was 30. I found, and I expect you might as well, that I learned more in a week of lessons from a reputable sailing school than I could pick up in three years of trial and error learning on my own. If the skippers you are going to sail with know that you have taken lessons they at least will know that they are not dealing with a complete novice. They'll know that your serious about learning to sail and that you also are bringing something to the party. It's reassuring to a skipper to know that the crew can keep their port straight from their sherry! Start with sailing lessons. Sail with every skipper who will have you - you'll learn something from all of them, especially the bad ones! After a year of sailing volunteer for a day or two on the race committee. With the experience you'll then have you'll be amazed at how much you'll learn standing on the barge watching from a fixed position. You'll quickly see whose fast, and why, and whose slow, and why. Now about cashing in those muni's - whoa there big fella! The boat you can afford is the boat you can pay cash for now, without taking a loan or imparing your capital. How much have you got in the savings account right now? That's the price range to start with. If you want to set some current income aside towards a boat in the future great, but let's not get too excited right away. The reason I say this isn't because I don't think you can afford a boat, but because I know that every experienced sailor will tell you the same thing: no matter how much research and thinking you do about the boat and what you will use it for the chances are over 90% that the first boat you buy will be the wrong one for you! On that note it behooves one to proceed with caution. A good route to follow if you are determined to have a boat is to buy a used one that is part of the largest fleet in your club. You'll likely not to badly on the condition of the boat and because it is part of the largest fleet sailed in the club there will be a market for it of people you know when it comes time to sell it. Here's a tip: if your going racing, by a boat in a one design fleet. The racing is closer and more satisfying, you'll learn more quickly than if you a re racing in a PHRF fleet, and the potential market for your boat will be better. A great starter boat if racing is your goal is a J -24. The fleet is huge, the competition both fierce and fun and there is a good market for the boat. Furthermore you can pick up a hotly competitive used boat with bags of sails and gear for under $15,000.00, and you can't beat that with a stick! Remeber, the smaller the boat, the bigger the bang for the buck. On a personall note, when it comes to learning to sail, you can't beat dinghies. If your club has a racing class of dinghies I would definitely recommend you start their. This is the rule: A good dinghy sailor can always sail a big boat, but a big boat sailor can't always sail a dinghy. On a one or two person boat you get to be the skipper right away, making both the strategic and tactical decisions. You can alternate racing on club member boats with racing your dinghy and apply the lessons across the board. The advantage dinghies have as a learning platform is that they are instantly responsive: change the sail trim and you know right away if your going faster or slower. This is a whole lot longer than I planned for it to be, and could be longer still, but I hope my own prejudices will at least give you something to think about. Fair winds, Brian Pickton aboard The Legend, Rodney Bay, St. Lucia, West Indies.
re; boating beginner seeking advice
Does your uncle take you out with him? There's a lot of hands-on, intuitive management that goes into handling a boat, and then a lot of pure grunt-work that he can teach you. What about a sailing class? I work at a J.C. and we offer them here. That's a good inexpensive option. My other piece of advice is on your municipal bonds. When you do get to the point of selling, be careful. It's hard to know that you're getting a good price for them, even through a trusted broker. Look at ebondusa now, do a little history check on their selling prices without added fees, and then you'll know what the market is realistically offering. This is an independent sight and this is a free resource so take advantage of it. Nathan
Does your uncle take you out with him? There's a lot of hands-on, intuitive management that goes into handling a boat, and then a lot of pure grunt-work that he can teach you. What about a sailing class? I work at a J.C. and we offer them here. That's a good inexpensive option. My other piece of advice is on your municipal bonds. When you do get to the point of selling, be careful. It's hard to know that you're getting a good price for them, even through a trusted broker. Look at ebondusa now, do a little history check on their selling prices without added fees, and then you'll know what the market is realistically offering. This is an independent sight and this is a free resource so take advantage of it. Nathan
- Status