Is there a reason that my boat is always worth less than book value when I am selling and theirs is always worth more when I am buying??? What value is most meaningful, bucvalu, NADA, or the surveyor??? Assuming that the owner will not choose to make corrections, do I have to negotiate close to the surveyor's value to save my butt??
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Larry
Same experience here....
My broker laughed when I told him how much I needed for my trade in sailboat. But, all the ones in his yard cost twice as much. I suppose with all the expenses the dealers have, they have to make a buck. Getting the buyers to the dealer and then getting them to buy gets to be a major expense. So, dealers have to fudge up on theirs and down on yours. Fact of life.....
My broker laughed when I told him how much I needed for my trade in sailboat. But, all the ones in his yard cost twice as much. I suppose with all the expenses the dealers have, they have to make a buck. Getting the buyers to the dealer and then getting them to buy gets to be a major expense. So, dealers have to fudge up on theirs and down on yours. Fact of life.....
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Kenneth Pfaff
Depends on the Dealer
It depends on how badly the dealer wants to make a deal. Last year when I was looking to upgrade from my Hunter 23.5, I was at the Norwalk Boat show and I was going back and forth between either a Hunter 290, Hunter 320 or a Beneteau 33. I was seriously shoping and when I started talking trade in the Beneteau dealer offered me 3,000 to 4,000, the Hunter Dealer ask me what I paid for my 23.5 5 years ago ($10,000) and that's what he offered. So you can guess from which dealer I bought. I am now the proud owner of a 2001 Hunter 290.
It depends on how badly the dealer wants to make a deal. Last year when I was looking to upgrade from my Hunter 23.5, I was at the Norwalk Boat show and I was going back and forth between either a Hunter 290, Hunter 320 or a Beneteau 33. I was seriously shoping and when I started talking trade in the Beneteau dealer offered me 3,000 to 4,000, the Hunter Dealer ask me what I paid for my 23.5 5 years ago ($10,000) and that's what he offered. So you can guess from which dealer I bought. I am now the proud owner of a 2001 Hunter 290.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Boat values
A dealer has to make a profit, so what he gives in trade is the wholesale price, not what you could sell it for yourself. He might give you a little more if the boat is so sharp it will sell immediately with little or no cost to market it. But he's not gonna give you BUC prices, or even high NADA. Book values are only national averages, and only include prices reported by dealers. They don't take into account local factors like a glut on the market of any particular make model--or just a glut of used boats of all kinds, fresh water vs. salt water, local economic or other conditions that may affect all boat sales, new and used. The survey value, which is based on a combination of the LOCAL fair market value and the condition of the boat, is the only one that matters. A well-maintained boat in pristine condition, with lots of upgrades and extras will survey for top dollar in your local area for that make/model/year...it can even survey for more than "book value." A neglected or abused boat with lots of problems and/or worn out equipment will survey for much less. Everything the surveyor finds that needs correcting reduces its value by at least as much as the cost to correct. If you as the seller don't want to spend the money to correct problems found during the survey, the buyer will have to..so yes, you'll have to renegotiate if you want to sell the boat. If the problems are serious enough, many buyers--except those looking for a "project boat" for bottom dollar--will most likely decide to walk rather than renegotiate. Resale value is one of the reasons why it's so important to pay attention to every inch of your boat and correct small problems immediately...because major problems always start out as small ones.
A dealer has to make a profit, so what he gives in trade is the wholesale price, not what you could sell it for yourself. He might give you a little more if the boat is so sharp it will sell immediately with little or no cost to market it. But he's not gonna give you BUC prices, or even high NADA. Book values are only national averages, and only include prices reported by dealers. They don't take into account local factors like a glut on the market of any particular make model--or just a glut of used boats of all kinds, fresh water vs. salt water, local economic or other conditions that may affect all boat sales, new and used. The survey value, which is based on a combination of the LOCAL fair market value and the condition of the boat, is the only one that matters. A well-maintained boat in pristine condition, with lots of upgrades and extras will survey for top dollar in your local area for that make/model/year...it can even survey for more than "book value." A neglected or abused boat with lots of problems and/or worn out equipment will survey for much less. Everything the surveyor finds that needs correcting reduces its value by at least as much as the cost to correct. If you as the seller don't want to spend the money to correct problems found during the survey, the buyer will have to..so yes, you'll have to renegotiate if you want to sell the boat. If the problems are serious enough, many buyers--except those looking for a "project boat" for bottom dollar--will most likely decide to walk rather than renegotiate. Resale value is one of the reasons why it's so important to pay attention to every inch of your boat and correct small problems immediately...because major problems always start out as small ones.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
A word to the wise...
The only number that matters is the net difference between the price of the new boat and the amount he'll give you in trade for the old one. So ALWAYS settle on the price of the new boat before even mentioning trade to the dealer...'cuz if Dealer A is willing to give you $2500 more for your boat than Dealer B, you can be sure that he's gonna add a major portion of that $2500 to the price of the new one. And they'll try to hide it...usually by offering more upgrades and extras but not discounting them as much as they would if you weren't trading. OEM and dealer discounts from various equipment suppliers are all over the wall--from as little as 30% to as much as 60% off list...so you have no way of knowing his costs of things like upgraded toilets, microwaves, sail covers, and especially electronics, so you have no way of knowing just how good a deal he's making you on them. Nor can you compare between, say Hunter and Beneteau, because they offer differents brands or models...and if you're comparing different size boats of different makes from different dealers, it's even more impossible to know what the dealers' real costs are. But the dealers know, and you can be sure he's gonna make a profit on the deal, no matter what number he puts down as the trade-in for your boat. He has to, to stay in business. So the amount a dealer offers in trade is meaningless...the only number that matters is the bottom one--the net difference between the price of the new boat, and the amount of the trade.
The only number that matters is the net difference between the price of the new boat and the amount he'll give you in trade for the old one. So ALWAYS settle on the price of the new boat before even mentioning trade to the dealer...'cuz if Dealer A is willing to give you $2500 more for your boat than Dealer B, you can be sure that he's gonna add a major portion of that $2500 to the price of the new one. And they'll try to hide it...usually by offering more upgrades and extras but not discounting them as much as they would if you weren't trading. OEM and dealer discounts from various equipment suppliers are all over the wall--from as little as 30% to as much as 60% off list...so you have no way of knowing his costs of things like upgraded toilets, microwaves, sail covers, and especially electronics, so you have no way of knowing just how good a deal he's making you on them. Nor can you compare between, say Hunter and Beneteau, because they offer differents brands or models...and if you're comparing different size boats of different makes from different dealers, it's even more impossible to know what the dealers' real costs are. But the dealers know, and you can be sure he's gonna make a profit on the deal, no matter what number he puts down as the trade-in for your boat. He has to, to stay in business. So the amount a dealer offers in trade is meaningless...the only number that matters is the bottom one--the net difference between the price of the new boat, and the amount of the trade.
Gonna get more if you broker the boat.
Peggy is correct. You need to know how much you're gonna pay for the new one before you worry about the old one. If a dealer buys your boat he has to worry about flooring the thing until it sells. This is going to be a direct cost out of his pocket. If you have him broker the boat, he has no direct costs. Also if you are going to trade it in, you are probably going to do better with a dealer from the same mfg that you are buying or one that sells that brand. If they know the market, they will have some idea how quick the boat will move. Obviously if you have the time, sell it yourself.
Peggy is correct. You need to know how much you're gonna pay for the new one before you worry about the old one. If a dealer buys your boat he has to worry about flooring the thing until it sells. This is going to be a direct cost out of his pocket. If you have him broker the boat, he has no direct costs. Also if you are going to trade it in, you are probably going to do better with a dealer from the same mfg that you are buying or one that sells that brand. If they know the market, they will have some idea how quick the boat will move. Obviously if you have the time, sell it yourself.
W
Wynn Ferrel
Same philosophy as buying a car
Essentially, buying a new boat is no different than buying a new car. There is no free lunch. Unless the dealer screws up, or is getting temporary promotional discounts (spiffs) or sub-vented leasing plans (discounted financing) from the manufactuer, the dealer must sell you the boat at or over regular dealer cost. It is up to you to figure out what that cost is. Steve is right. As in selling your used car, you are always better off selling your own car/boat before or as you buy a new one. Having said that, there are reasons why some people either don't want to or are not capabable of selling there own car or boat. For example, my 21 year old single daughter lives alone in a city 500 miles from me. I would prefer she (for her personal and financial security) not attempt to sell her own car. Also, there are sellers in an income bracket that just do not need to be bothered with selling their used car or boat. Check your local want ads. How many Cadillac's or Mercades do you see for sale by owner? Not many. So, the dealer provides a service and is entitled to make a profit. Having said that, when I buy a new car or a new boat, I'm not Santa Claus and it is up to me not leave too much money on the table, but still leave enough so that I maintain a cordial relationship with the dealer going forward. Another point rarely made by car/boat purchasing advisors. But, it is true as true can be. And you can test it yourself. The further the buyer's home base is from the selling dealer, the lower the price will be. The dealer knows he can't sell you on service and an ongoing relationship. His best shot at making a deal with a customer out of his/her marketing area is price. Whereas, the local dealer should be able to make more margin on the sale as they can be confident that you will WANT to rely on them for future service and support. One last point. I've heard that most Hunter dealers are pretty much like mine. Kind of a small dealer in a very small market, but he can serve a two or three state area. I'm close to him, geographically. He's my first level of support. I want to --- NEED TO maintain a cordial relationship with him to continue a fairly high level of support from him. Or, he won't return my calls, will always be too busy to talk to me, etc. etc. If I beat him into the ground every time I have a financial transaction with him, I don't really leave him with a lot of incentive to give me great service. So, it is a two way street. Good negotiations leave both parties generally please with the deal. Hope this helps. Wynn Ferrel S/V Tranquility
Essentially, buying a new boat is no different than buying a new car. There is no free lunch. Unless the dealer screws up, or is getting temporary promotional discounts (spiffs) or sub-vented leasing plans (discounted financing) from the manufactuer, the dealer must sell you the boat at or over regular dealer cost. It is up to you to figure out what that cost is. Steve is right. As in selling your used car, you are always better off selling your own car/boat before or as you buy a new one. Having said that, there are reasons why some people either don't want to or are not capabable of selling there own car or boat. For example, my 21 year old single daughter lives alone in a city 500 miles from me. I would prefer she (for her personal and financial security) not attempt to sell her own car. Also, there are sellers in an income bracket that just do not need to be bothered with selling their used car or boat. Check your local want ads. How many Cadillac's or Mercades do you see for sale by owner? Not many. So, the dealer provides a service and is entitled to make a profit. Having said that, when I buy a new car or a new boat, I'm not Santa Claus and it is up to me not leave too much money on the table, but still leave enough so that I maintain a cordial relationship with the dealer going forward. Another point rarely made by car/boat purchasing advisors. But, it is true as true can be. And you can test it yourself. The further the buyer's home base is from the selling dealer, the lower the price will be. The dealer knows he can't sell you on service and an ongoing relationship. His best shot at making a deal with a customer out of his/her marketing area is price. Whereas, the local dealer should be able to make more margin on the sale as they can be confident that you will WANT to rely on them for future service and support. One last point. I've heard that most Hunter dealers are pretty much like mine. Kind of a small dealer in a very small market, but he can serve a two or three state area. I'm close to him, geographically. He's my first level of support. I want to --- NEED TO maintain a cordial relationship with him to continue a fairly high level of support from him. Or, he won't return my calls, will always be too busy to talk to me, etc. etc. If I beat him into the ground every time I have a financial transaction with him, I don't really leave him with a lot of incentive to give me great service. So, it is a two way street. Good negotiations leave both parties generally please with the deal. Hope this helps. Wynn Ferrel S/V Tranquility
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