Boat stalls out on port tack, close haul/reach

[SailTahoe2010]

Hi all,
have an '87 O'Day 222 which has been a good little boat so far. It had sat on the hard for a few years and I've had to replace a lot of little things, like sails & furler (LOL)..
She sails great on sb tack, even close hauled, but tack over and it's like...where did the wind go? Genny is a 150% (or catalina 22 135%) and jib lead tracks are on cabin top, slides are in the same position. Shrouds seems to be the same tension (haven't tried checking with a gauge).

I've looked around for info about boats favoring one tack or the other, but no luck. I know that it's pretty common for boats to favor one tack over the other, but this boat is pretty extreme. Goes from 3-4kts on sb tack to 1kt port tack...
Any ideas?

On a slight other note, read a ton about the CB pendant (yes mine completely parted and I had to feed a wire down to feed pendant back up. But now the shackle (pendant came from D&R) came off, cotter/clevis pin must have failed, so now I have to find another shackle that will work. Need to fix tomorrow if I can (boat is used for classes) but not sure of shackle size. Can't call Rudy til Monday...Thought I would just tie pendant to cb somehow..

Thanks for any help you can give regarding the tack favoring. The only other thing is that while sailing, fore and backstays are kinda slack, or at least bouncy.

Anway, fixing this boat has been an experience!
Thanks again,
Michelle

 

[Jonrod222]

The only thing I can think of is the main sheet is attached to the backstay which is offset to one side, which does allow the boat to sail closer to the wind on one tack than the other. I just replaced my centerboards pendent and I couldn't use the shackle that ruddy sent, it wasn't long enough. I had to use the original, which I think was about 2.5 to 3 inches long and an inch wide. Hope this helps some.

 

[Joe11688]

Hi all,
have an '87 O'Day 222 which has been a good little boat so far. It had sat on the hard for a few years and I've had to replace a lot of little things, like sails & furler (LOL)..
She sails great on sb tack, even close hauled, but tack over and it's like...where did the wind go? Genny is a 150% (or catalina 22 135%) and jib lead tracks are on cabin top, slides are in the same position. Shrouds seems to be the same tension (haven't tried checking with a gauge).

I've looked around for info about boats favoring one tack or the other, but no luck. I know that it's pretty common for boats to favor one tack over the other, but this boat is pretty extreme. Goes from 3-4kts on sb tack to 1kt port tack...
Any ideas?

On a slight other note, read a ton about the CB pendant (yes mine completely parted and I had to feed a wire down to feed pendant back up. But now the shackle (pendant came from D&R) came off, cotter/clevis pin must have failed, so now I have to find another shackle that will work. Need to fix tomorrow if I can (boat is used for classes) but not sure of shackle size. Can't call Rudy til Monday...Thought I would just tie pendant to cb somehow..

Thanks for any help you can give regarding the tack favoring. The only other thing is that while sailing, fore and backstays are kinda slack, or at least bouncy.

Anway, fixing this boat has been an experience!
Thanks again,
Michelle

Do you know anyone who has a Loos Gauge Michelle? Your stays are 1/8" so you have a few scale choices to use. I think my outside stays are set at #15 on that gauge and my inner stays are a little less.
I think that it would be wise to have the boat lifted to get at the centerboard. You will want to also make sure that the centerboard pendant line is running through the small sheave up inside the the centerboard trunk. Chances are that the shackle is still connected to the pendant line and all you need is the rigging pin and the cotter pin. I have a couple of pics that you can check out so you can know what you are dealing with. Make sure that you replace the rigging pin with a pin just long enough to connect to the board with the cotter pin. In other words, you don't want a pin that is too long. Do you have a roller trailer for this boat? Anyway, here's the pics. If you need further info on this, let me know. I just checked the pin and shackle on my pendant line this past spring when I bottom painted my O'Day 222 and it's a good thing I did. The cotter pin was broken on the rigging pin and it was easy to replace while my boat was up on boat stands.
Joe

 

[RichBone]

The forestay and backstay shouldn't be slack whether you're sailing or not.

Rich

 

[SailTahoe2010]

Hi Joe,
thanks, I have looked at your pics before. No luck on the shackle, it's gone. I'm assuming the cotter pin failed or whatever, and shackle/pin all worked itself off. It's around $30-$50/ft to have boat hauled out onto travellift, so I only haul out onto it's trailer. Not worth hauling out to just change pendant. Used the wire down the tube method and hope it goes through that sheave correctly. It worked great, until shackle crapped out (about 3 weeks). Anyway, once on trailer, cannot see much, as you know. Anyway, have more shackles to try and will wire-mouse the damn thing so the pin doesn't work itself out.

I'm not brave enough to jack boat up off trailer to see what's happening, although I do need bottom paint job, which I will have to do myself. It's $100/ft here at South Lake Tahoe to get a bottom job (assuming no gouges to fix..) Rather pay myself $1500 to paint her myself. Not looking forward to it.

I like your reinforced chainplates for the shrouds, Joe; I was dismayed to see just a little ring sticking up where shrouds are connected. I learned to sail in SF Bay, so more used to juicier rigs on the boats I used there. Did check the brackets down below and bulkheads seem fine, so hopefully rig will hold until I can have a chance to do something similar to what you have. We throw 20+kts at the boat and she does fine.

I do have a Loos gauge, havent looked to close to see if I can use on this rig and didn't know what #s I needed anyway as the manual doesn't say much, except to NOT tighten rig under sail. Not used to seeing slack leeward shrouds, either, so I'm still getting used to that, LOL. Just did the straddle-the-mast, looking up and pulling/testing shrouds method.

The backstay turnbuckle is in as far as it will go. Someone else had essentially made a new forestay to add on the CDI furler with 150% genny, and I forgot to see how that turnbuckle looked (it could be tightened possibly) when I raised the mast later. The foil hides everything and I would need to drop sail to be able to lift drum assembly off to see what's the scoop with the turnbuckle. Maybe that's why the forestay/backstay just don't seem that tight, but, again, don't have experience with O'Day rigs.

Anyway, thanks for your help. Not sure why boat favors one tack much more than the other, but we'll figure it out one day, LOL.

I'll try to post pics of "O' Happy Day" in my copious free time *grin*.

Michelle B

 

[SailTahoe2010]

The forestay and backstay shouldn't be slack whether you're sailing or not.

Rich

Hi Rich,
They're not really slack, just not twanging tight like I'm used to...
My boat's whole rig seems pretty minimal/simple. I like Joe's reinforced chainplates/bigger brackets and his backstay and traveler ideas.

Thanks again

Michelle

 

[SailTahoe2010]

Quick update.
for the CB pendant, dove down to find the shackle and pin still on the CB (amazing..) but cotter pin was gone (makes sense). Using a different shackle with better arrangement so hopefully will last longer than a month!
Michelle

 

[Joe11688]

Hi Joe,
thanks, I have looked at your pics before. No luck on the shackle, it's gone. I'm assuming the cotter pin failed or whatever, and shackle/pin all worked itself off. It's around $30-$50/ft to have boat hauled out onto travellift, so I only haul out onto it's trailer. Not worth hauling out to just change pendant. Used the wire down the tube method and hope it goes through that sheave correctly. It worked great, until shackle crapped out (about 3 weeks). Anyway, once on trailer, cannot see much, as you know. Anyway, have more shackles to try and will wire-mouse the damn thing so the pin doesn't work itself out.

I'm not brave enough to jack boat up off trailer to see what's happening, although I do need bottom paint job, which I will have to do myself. It's $100/ft here at South Lake Tahoe to get a bottom job (assuming no gouges to fix..) Rather pay myself $1500 to paint her myself. Not looking forward to it.

I like your reinforced chainplates for the shrouds, Joe; I was dismayed to see just a little ring sticking up where shrouds are connected. I learned to sail in SF Bay, so more used to juicier rigs on the boats I used there. Did check the brackets down below and bulkheads seem fine, so hopefully rig will hold until I can have a chance to do something similar to what you have. We throw 20+kts at the boat and she does fine.

I do have a Loos gauge, havent looked to close to see if I can use on this rig and didn't know what #s I needed anyway as the manual doesn't say much, except to NOT tighten rig under sail. Not used to seeing slack leeward shrouds, either, so I'm still getting used to that, LOL. Just did the straddle-the-mast, looking up and pulling/testing shrouds method.

The backstay turnbuckle is in as far as it will go. Someone else had essentially made a new forestay to add on the CDI furler with 150% genny, and I forgot to see how that turnbuckle looked (it could be tightened possibly) when I raised the mast later. The foil hides everything and I would need to drop sail to be able to lift drum assembly off to see what's the scoop with the turnbuckle. Maybe that's why the forestay/backstay just don't seem that tight, but, again, don't have experience with O'Day rigs.

Anyway, thanks for your help. Not sure why boat favors one tack much more than the other, but we'll figure it out one day, LOL.

I'll try to post pics of "O' Happy Day" in my copious free time *grin*.

Michelle B

Hi Michelle,
I bought my shackle off Rudy many years ago when I was in his shop. He told me that it was better than the stock shackle that came with the boat, so I purchased it along with a new pendant line and spliced it myself. The shackle is very simple in that it is made up of two stainless steel plates with a small nylon sheave held on by a pin on one end, and a hole through both plates for the rigging pin on the other end. The cotter pins on those shackles will let go after a while as I found out four months ago.
I think that it was back in 2004 when I started bottom painting my boat at the house. I bought four new Brownell's Boatyard SB-3 Sailboat stands and placed them under the stern of the boat and jacked them up. I tied the stern off to a tree in my backyard and pulled the trailer out from under the boat a little at a time. It was easy with the roller trailer but it's very dangerous. Most guys won't tackle a job such as this and for good reason. Today I have a flat bunk trailer and it is even harder to get my boat off it and on to stands. I use about 20 wooden blocks, a hydraulic jack, a block & tackle, a single powerboat stand, and my four sailboat stands. It's practically an all day affair and I'm dead tired at the end of the day. I really hate bottom painting!
My chainplates are great now, but I had a lot of problems with them at first. If you can stick with 1/8" stays, you should be OK with the chainplates that you have on your boat right now. My leeward stays slack off too when I'm sailing. Rudy says that the stays should be only hand tight. Check your forestay turnbuckle to see where it's set.
Personally, I don't like the mainsheet connected to a plate on the backstay. I like it coming off a traveler near my companionway. It can be a pain to step over at times and it ruins a nice seating position on both sides of the cockpit, but it's well worth the trouble. If you ever decide to get one, get a good one with the ropes and pulleys. Also, move your backstay turnbuckle up and add a lever type adjustable just under it. You'll never need to mess with the adjustment of your other stays with that rig, believe me. I look forward to seeing any pics you may have of the boat. If you have questions about anything, email me and I'll be glad to help. sailtrinkka1986@verizon.net
Smooth Sailing!
Joe

 

[SailTahoe2010]

Hi Michelle,
I bought my shackle off Rudy many years ago when I was in his shop. He told me that it was better than the stock shackle that came with the boat, so I purchased it along with a new pendant line and spliced it myself. The shackle is very simple in that it is made up of two stainless steel plates with a small nylon sheave held on by a pin on one end, and a hole through both plates for the rigging pin on the other end. The cotter pins on those shackles will let go after a while as I found out four months ago.
I think that it was back in 2004 when I started bottom painting my boat at the house. I bought four new Brownell's Boatyard SB-3 Sailboat stands and placed them under the stern of the boat and jacked them up. I tied the stern off to a tree in my backyard and pulled the trailer out from under the boat a little at a time. It was easy with the roller trailer but it's very dangerous. Most guys won't tackle a job such as this and for good reason. Today I have a flat bunk trailer and it is even harder to get my boat off it and on to stands. I use about 20 wooden blocks, a hydraulic jack, a block & tackle, a single powerboat stand, and my four sailboat stands. It's practically an all day affair and I'm dead tired at the end of the day. I really hate bottom painting!
My chainplates are great now, but I had a lot of problems with them at first. If you can stick with 1/8" stays, you should be OK with the chainplates that you have on your boat right now. My leeward stays slack off too when I'm sailing. Rudy says that the stays should be only hand tight. Check your forestay turnbuckle to see where it's set.
Personally, I don't like the mainsheet connected to a plate on the backstay. I like it coming off a traveler near my companionway. It can be a pain to step over at times and it ruins a nice seating position on both sides of the cockpit, but it's well worth the trouble. If you ever decide to get one, get a good one with the ropes and pulleys. Also, move your backstay turnbuckle up and add a lever type adjustable just under it. You'll never need to mess with the adjustment of your other stays with that rig, believe me. I look forward to seeing any pics you may have of the boat. If you have questions about anything, email me and I'll be glad to help. sailtrinkka1986@verizon.net
Smooth Sailing!
Joe

Hi Joe,
thanks for the great info. Here are some pic's from my camera phone:

 

[Joe11688]

Michelle,
In the garage picture I can see a chain fall hanging from a beam on the ceiling. This is ideal for getting your boat off the trailer. All you need is to suspend the bow from the chain fall and use blocks under the stern of the boat with four sailboat stands, and that trailer can be rolled right out from under her hull. Even if you moved the trailer ahead and set the bow on the trailer over the axle with the wheels chocked, the boat should be stable enough to safely work on it. Wood blocks can be stacked on the keel board of the trailer to get the bow up higher. They can also be stacked in pairs and criss-crossed on the floor too, which is what I would do. I know that you're not up to doing something like that, but you must know someone who is into rigging or maybe a power company lineman that can help you with it. If you need pics of how I do it, I will send them to you. It can be dangerous but it is doable to the right person who knows how to do it safely. My four sailboat stands can lift my boat. They're not meant to do that, but they can do it. I raised the stern of an O'Day 26 at the club one day with four of my stands for a friend of mine. His boat was on the trailer crooked, the tide went down and we needed to straighten the trailer out.
Your boat is set up a lot better than mine was when I bought it new. I can tell by your mast Tabernacle. Nice boat! Is that your garage or is this where you store it in the off season?
Joe

 

[SailTahoe2010]

Michelle,
In the garage picture I can see a chain fall hanging from a beam on the ceiling. This is ideal for getting your boat off the trailer. All you need is to suspend the bow from the chain fall and use blocks under the stern of the boat with four sailboat stands, and that trailer can be rolled right out from under her hull. Even if you moved the trailer ahead and set the bow on the trailer over the axle with the wheels chocked, the boat should be stable enough to safely work on it. Wood blocks can be stacked on the keel board of the trailer to get the bow up higher. They can also be stacked in pairs and criss-crossed on the floor too, which is what I would do. I know that you're not up to doing something like that, but you must know someone who is into rigging or maybe a power company lineman that can help you with it. If you need pics of how I do it, I will send them to you. It can be dangerous but it is doable to the right person who knows how to do it safely. My four sailboat stands can lift my boat. They're not meant to do that, but they can do it. I raised the stern of an O'Day 26 at the club one day with four of my stands for a friend of mine. His boat was on the trailer crooked, the tide went down and we needed to straighten the trailer out.
Your boat is set up a lot better than mine was when I bought it new. I can tell by your mast Tabernacle. Nice boat! Is that your garage or is this where you store it in the off season?
Joe

Thanks, Joe!
She was a great find The lady who I bought it from was tickled pink that her old boat would be used to teach folks to sail.

Unfortunately, I no longer have access to that shop you see in the photo and no longer have the hoist setup, either.
I have a friend who bottom painted his catalina 22, so thought I would get him to help me if I decide to tackle it this winter. The bottom's not *that* bad, but may put boat in marina slip and the marina is pretty gnarly with growth, so probably should bottom paint before boat has to be in a slip, or it will make for more work later, LOL!

If I decide to try and bottom paint, I will email you for ideas, tips, etc. I really appreciate your offer of help. Will have q's about what to use for sanding, etc.

Talk to you later!
Michelle

 

[Joe11688]

Thanks, Joe!
She was a great find The lady who I bought it from was tickled pink that her old boat would be used to teach folks to sail.

Unfortunately, I no longer have access to that shop you see in the photo and no longer have the hoist setup, either.
I have a friend who bottom painted his catalina 22, so thought I would get him to help me if I decide to tackle it this winter. The bottom's not *that* bad, but may put boat in marina slip and the marina is pretty gnarly with growth, so probably should bottom paint before boat has to be in a slip, or it will make for more work later, LOL!

If I decide to try and bottom paint, I will email you for ideas, tips, etc. I really appreciate your offer of help. Will have q's about what to use for sanding, etc.

Talk to you later!
Michelle

Bottom painting is very easy provided you can get at the hull. I invested in a power washer a few months ago and was able to remove some of the dirty scum embedded into the paint. I also used a sanding pad at the end of a long stick which really removed it. Once you get the prep work done and masked the water line with masking tape, the job goes very fast. I've been using Supper Ship Bottom Ablative paint for about four years now and I like it because it's cheaper than most good bottom paints, it has a high copper content, it only requires one coat and can adhere to most bottom paints. It can even be applied to bare Fiberglass because it has it's own primer built into it. It keeps the growth off.
I'm not too keen on slips because they are expensive and hard to get in and out of sometimes especially if there is a wind or strong current. I prefer a mooring as long as I'm able to bring her to the dock and load gear and passengers, which I'm always able to do at the YC. Also, I like being able to sail up to our T dock or to my mooring. It's good practice and these 222s can do that with just the Mainsail as easy as a day sailer. Although, two weeks ago I sailed up to the dock and got to within 12' of it because the tide was at a Spring Tide Low and my rudder grounded out into the mud and stopped her dead. I felt like a dumbbell, but hey you win a few and you lose a few, Right? I had my wife and two little grand daughters on board. Everything went wrong that day. We ran before the wind down to the new drawbridge construction near Battleship Cove Fall River and I tried beating back while stemming a foul current in a bad North wind and my back was killing me. So I turned on the outboard and got halfway back to the club and ran out of gas.:cussing: Up went the sails again. After I got stuck near the dock, I tried using my kayak paddle to get us to the dock and that didn't work so I jumped into my kayak and tried to tow the boat to the dock. Luckily I was able to hand the bow line to one of my fellow YC members standing on the dock. Outside of that, it was a memorable day. Billy Joel's boat "Vendetta" passed us near the bridge on the river. I didn't recognize it until he passed us and I saw the round stern. So I don't know if he was at the wheel. My back is getting better now. It only hurts when I laugh.