Boat Ownership

[Warren Milberg]

Over the years, there have been a number of discussions here about all aspects related to "how to sail," that have been of interest to both the novice sailor and people who have been sailing for a number of years. But I have seen precious little about the generic topic of "boat ownership." By that I mean how a new owner learns all the ins and outs of owning a sailboat, from insurance to bottom painting, to basic engine maintenance, to electrical systems, hardware replacement, and so on.

My guess is that most of us here have learned all this stuff the hard way: by rolling up our sleeves and just getting in there and doing whatever is required, learning as we do. But have any of you actually taken a course on these aspects of boat ownership? I'm thinking of developing such a course in the Annapolis-Metro DC-Chesapeake Bay area and would like to get a feel for interest in such a course. All ideas and thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[woodster]

this web site is as good as it gets for OJT learning ....i do think that a class on what you have described would be a very good idea....give them the + and - on every thing ....sorta like visine for the eyes....make it fun and hurmorus.....

regards

woody

 

[kloudie1]

That would be pretty cool, Warren.. First, selection.. what kind of boat trailer/slipped..Financing second .. Then insurance.. Options to ownership with the new "sailing clubs" or partnerships.... Would make a good "leisure class" at a local college.. Those of us who, from the age of cognizance, always had boats in our lives, kinda take that stuff for granted.. A course would introduce folks to the flock.. Go For It

 

[Apex]

we learned through through more trial and error than anything, but sail magazines, articles within said magazines as well as books and some google searches were my sources of info. Most informative was learning through the first boat, while reading on forums for specific models seems to be the best teacher about the specific model which often translates across to general knowledge.

 

[Rick D]

Terrific Idea, Warren

...and I'll bet people here will willingly make suggestions as to the course content. Maybe too willing!
For me, I think you will have to work to make it simple and not make it too scary.

I think you can break up the course into some basics:
1. Types of boats: merits and liabilities, operating considerations.
2. Boat maintenance resources: boat yards, mechanics, divers, etc.
3. Educational assets: USCGA, schools, on-line courses, blogs & websites, print.
4. Purchase considerations: slips/moorings, tax, insurance, brokers, surveyors.
5. Construction: FRP, appropriate metals, electronics and electrical.

That's probably too much for one day unless you do a lot of visuals, hand outs higher-level overviews. I think that's all you could expect someone to absorb anyway.

Anyhow, just one quick opinion. Good luck!

 

[Ron20324]

... I have seen precious little about the generic topic of "boat ownership." ... . But have any of you actually taken a course on these aspects of boat ownership? .... All ideas and thoughts would be appreciated.

Well, there ARE "classes". They're called books... magazines... USCG Aux courses... Power Squadron courses. We'll not include movies in this. It's all there for the public to use.

It is obvious some people buy a boat with no idea what it entails. Unfortunately some people only read these forums for the answer to the limited qusetion they have. If people want to learn, yes they could/should read all posts and gather knowledge BEFORE they need it. My two cents.

 

[Caboteur]

Canada is different...

Since we must hold a "Pleasure Craft Operator Card" to operate a boat propulsed by an engine of 10hp or more. We have schools to give this basic course and many more elaborate courses.
The CPS-ECP give a lot of navigation and weather courses as must also be given by USPS (power squadrons). The big difference is the courses given by the École Navigation de Plaisance under the auspices of the Institut Maritime du Québec: this is the pleasure craft version of the professional course given by the Québec Maritime Institute. http://coursdenavigation.com/index.php
Before purchasing, renovating and equipping my first "big" boat I had taken ten of these 33 hour courses. From the basic boat-handling course to theory and desing of the sailboat and electrical and diesel engine maintenance courses. I then started really travelling...
Within the basic "Navigation de Plaisance" course there is a section on ownership, registration (liens and other ugly things that can happen) and insurance.
Warren I realize the Web address refers to a French language site... if you are serious about setting-up your school you could contact Luc Bernuy who has been running this school for the last 20 years or so (he speaks English).
If you wish more info, don't hesitate to contact me.
Pierre Desrosiers
P.S. As a teaser, what shows that the photo was taken outside of american waters (north or south america)?

 

[Calif. Ted]

Wait a minute, are you coming or going ?

 

[Ross]

Re: Canada is different...

Sailing vessel is flying a maple leaf.

 

[Meriachee]

Since we must hold a "Pleasure Craft Operator Card" to operate a boat propulsed by an engine of 10hp or more. We have schools to give this basic course and many more elaborate courses. The CPS-ECP give a lot of navigation and weather courses as must also be given by USPS (power squadrons). The big difference is the courses given by the École Navigation de Plaisance under the auspices of the Institut Maritime du Québec: this is the pleasure craft version of the professional course given by the Québec Maritime Institute. http://coursdenavigation.com/index.php Before purchasing, renovating and equipping my first "big" boat I had taken ten of these 33 hour courses. From the basic boat-handling course to theory and desing of the sailboat and electrical and diesel engine maintenance courses. I then started really travelling... Within the basic "Navigation de Plaisance" course there is a section on ownership, registration (liens and other ugly things that can happen) and insurance. Warren I realize the Web address refers to a French language site... if you are serious about setting-up your school you could contact Luc Bernuy who has been running this school for the last 20 years or so (he speaks English). If you wish more info, don't hesitate to contact me. Pierre Desrosiers P.S. As a teaser, what shows that the photo was taken outside of american waters (north or south america)?

Gotta be canada. The person on the breakwater has a coat on. It sure looks like the fishing tub is being a hazard.

 

[Don Crowther]

Red on right on return..........from the ocean.
Green on the right......go to the ocean.
I think it's the other way in Europe :stirthepot:

 

[Johnb]

Did the Americans not interchange green and red buoys during the war of independence to confuse the British?

 

[shemandr]

OK. Back to the OP.
I think this a great idea. A barrier for newbies is all this uncertainty in boat ownership. Not the least of which is the relationship with the boatyard. So include that. Someone new to ownership would be well served by knowing ahead of time what to expect in yard fees, what is negotiable, and what you can tell them to …., and the consequences of doing such. For instance, if you refuse the yard fee for winterizing, and spring commissioning, you will get charged for moving the boat from the launch well to your temporary slip. Nothing wrong with that, but newbies might want to know. Or, while the contract says you have three days to move your boat out of the temporary slip, or be charged a transient rate ($3/ft/day), this is rarely done. Newbies need to know this so as to be not intimated by the possible fees. And, boatyards could do better to lose the draconian language in those contracts. But that's a digression.

 

[Calif. Ted]

Our local WM tried holding some weekly seminars of a similar nature. A friend who is a Broker, 100 ton master, & circumnavigator was first up to explain shopping and buying a boat. They couldn't get enough attendance to make it worthwhile, you can lead a horse to the fountain of knowledge but can't make it drink.

 

[seamansg]

I live in the seattle,wa. area and before I bought my boat I took a 7day and night live aboard with 3 other people and an instructor. Had to read two soft back books that take about 2 or three days to read before the coarse. The coarse and boat was $1,400 and the boat was leased from the same company. The first thing you do when you arrive is to take a 100 question multiple answer test on the material read and then two other 100 question tests during the sail plus hands on sailing a 37 ft. boat. They cover everything from sailing and maintenance weather etc.. Passing grade is 70% or better. Than your coast guard aux. certified which allows you to handle up to a 40ft. sailboat and 10% off on leasing a boat any where in the US. Its like renting a car. And you can fly to a destination and show up on the dock 2 hrs. later and ready to sail and fly back home in a week. Just bring a change of clothes. The coarse is ASA American Sailing Association.

 

[Caboteur]

Different!

Red Right Returning... applies to navigation Zone "B" which is america (north, south and Caribbean arc), Japan and Corea. In the rest of the world it is the other way around... The dead give away is that in Zone "A" the red marker has a flat top and the green has the cone.
It is better to know this before reaching the Azores on an Atlantic crossing.
Pierre

 

[Chris Patterson]

It's easy to tell the boat is not in the States, there's not some 'authority' climbing all over it..

 

[Sailm8]

Don't forget to address the women/gf's in the audience. Stuff like how hard it is to tip a keelboat over. Something about storms but not too scary. Propane cooking safety (sexist i know but practical all the same). The minimum that they should know if they must run the boat in an emergency.

 

[rfrye1]

As Seamansg wrote:

The ASA probably has the means to expand or offer this on a national level. Trying to do this locally might be tough. You should try to combine your efforts with ASA.

 

[jimmcgee]

Warren, it's an interesting idea. A lot of people are interested in boating but have no idea how to get started because they didn't grow up around boats. For them boating is this mysterious world that literally speaks another language; and this seems especially true when it comes to sailboats.

I think it all comes down to marketing and what you do you connect with those people. Maybe it's partnerships with marinas or brokers. Maybe it's seminars at boat shows or local colleges. Maybe it's connections through local professional organizations or companies.

Questions I get from people who hear I'm a sailor:

• It looks complicated, how do you learn all those ropes? (it's not that hard to learn)
• I was on a fishing boat once and got really seasick (it's a different motion).
• Don't you have to be rich to own a boat? (nope, our first boat cost $6K)
• How big of a boat should you start with?
• How do I know what to look for in a boat?

There's some good info on these sites:

• http://www.discoverboating.com/
• http://discoversailing.org.au/
• http://discoversailing.com/home.asp
• http://www.sailamerica.com/

There may even be some seed money available from one of these groups.

I think you're on to something if you can find a way to get the word out to people. Especially families with kids. Sailing is a way to spend time you your family instead of just shuttling your kids to soccer or baseball.