My wife is very uncomfortable with our boat healing. Does anyone out there know the limits of the 22 (swing keel) before it comes close to tipping over? Assuming the worst sail trimming possible, how much wind would it take to tip the boat over? Under normal, safe, good sail trimming, what kind of gust could get someone in trouble? Thanks in advance for your help.
Boat knockdown
- Thread starter JR13103
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Forgiving
The Catalina 22 is a very forgiving boat and will round up long before knock down, in the years we have ownd ours we have had the spreader in the water once on this time several boats were knocked down by severe down drafts.. Try to put the rail in the water and you will see what I'm talking about. I think the the boat sails best when under 20* heel but that's me others will feel differently I'm sure
The Catalina 22 is a very forgiving boat and will round up long before knock down, in the years we have ownd ours we have had the spreader in the water once on this time several boats were knocked down by severe down drafts.. Try to put the rail in the water and you will see what I'm talking about. I think the the boat sails best when under 20* heel but that's me others will feel differently I'm sure
No Easy Answer
JR, Wow...never an easy answer... 1. Wife - same thing with my spouse. The way around it; got her private sailing lessons WITH SOMEONE ELSE! Once she gained confidence (without marriage dynamics) about sailing, how to control heeling, etc., she no longer had any problems with heeling. 2. I own a swing keel as well. There is so much that goes into controlling heeling (wind, amount of sail, trim, point of sail, sea state, etc.) that it is hard to simplify. Once of the best I've ever heard is "if it doesn't feel comfortable then don't do it." But I think it would be fair to say (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that anything over 15 knots wind is going to lead to some kind of heeling on almost every point of sail. Anything 20 knots or above you ought not be out unless you are equipped to deal with reefing, storm jibs, and the like. Somehow, your wife does not strike me as someone who would look out at whitecaps and think it was good sailing weather. 3. Summary - Have your wife take lessons and get comfortable. Sail in your comfort zone. SJK SENDS
JR, Wow...never an easy answer... 1. Wife - same thing with my spouse. The way around it; got her private sailing lessons WITH SOMEONE ELSE! Once she gained confidence (without marriage dynamics) about sailing, how to control heeling, etc., she no longer had any problems with heeling. 2. I own a swing keel as well. There is so much that goes into controlling heeling (wind, amount of sail, trim, point of sail, sea state, etc.) that it is hard to simplify. Once of the best I've ever heard is "if it doesn't feel comfortable then don't do it." But I think it would be fair to say (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that anything over 15 knots wind is going to lead to some kind of heeling on almost every point of sail. Anything 20 knots or above you ought not be out unless you are equipped to deal with reefing, storm jibs, and the like. Somehow, your wife does not strike me as someone who would look out at whitecaps and think it was good sailing weather. 3. Summary - Have your wife take lessons and get comfortable. Sail in your comfort zone. SJK SENDS
I'll say 40 MPH wind
Based on my experience with my C22. I could be sailing in 25 mph winds and take a gust or a wind shift. The boat would immediately go about 5 degrees more over, stuff would start falling around the cabin. Within a few seconds the boat would round up into the wind a bit and the crisis would be over. During the 7 years I owned the boat, I think it may have gotten to 20+ degrees once or twice. My crew did not like the heeling, and just to calm some fears, I put a "level-o-guage" in the cockpit. They would start complaining about the heeling, and I would read them the guage (usually about 10 degres of heel) If you are tending the tiller and the sails, and the boat is balanced properly (i.e. heads into the wind when you let go of the tiller), the boat is nearly impossible to put over. You will probably pop the sheet long before it is going over.
Based on my experience with my C22. I could be sailing in 25 mph winds and take a gust or a wind shift. The boat would immediately go about 5 degrees more over, stuff would start falling around the cabin. Within a few seconds the boat would round up into the wind a bit and the crisis would be over. During the 7 years I owned the boat, I think it may have gotten to 20+ degrees once or twice. My crew did not like the heeling, and just to calm some fears, I put a "level-o-guage" in the cockpit. They would start complaining about the heeling, and I would read them the guage (usually about 10 degres of heel) If you are tending the tiller and the sails, and the boat is balanced properly (i.e. heads into the wind when you let go of the tiller), the boat is nearly impossible to put over. You will probably pop the sheet long before it is going over.
Backwind
The C-22 rounds up quickly in heavy airs, thereby suspending the healing. While it has not happened to me, I imagine the worst thing that could happen would be if the boat rounded up in a big gust to the point of tacking and you were slow to release the genoa causing it to backwind laying you over on the other side. Bottom line - Get to know your boat in moderate air.
The C-22 rounds up quickly in heavy airs, thereby suspending the healing. While it has not happened to me, I imagine the worst thing that could happen would be if the boat rounded up in a big gust to the point of tacking and you were slow to release the genoa causing it to backwind laying you over on the other side. Bottom line - Get to know your boat in moderate air.
You probably won't be out in those winds.
My son-in-law and I really make an effort to go out in big wind days. 18 to 25 kts. with chop between 2 to 3.5 feet in my C22. We have strongly studied and practiced the "flat is fast" method of sailing and you really would have to come up with some very good tricks to turtle a C22. She will round up way before she would flip. It is possible to ship large quantities of water over the cockpit coaming in front of the winches so we sail with 2 boards in on bad days. (when my BIL is at the helm) If, under a reefed main and 110 jib, you start to question your sanity then it's time to head in. I value my non sailing friends and simply return to the dock before they start ripping chunks of the hand rails off. Flat is definately faster in a C22 and much easier on you. A jib downhaul also should be required equipment. Ray
My son-in-law and I really make an effort to go out in big wind days. 18 to 25 kts. with chop between 2 to 3.5 feet in my C22. We have strongly studied and practiced the "flat is fast" method of sailing and you really would have to come up with some very good tricks to turtle a C22. She will round up way before she would flip. It is possible to ship large quantities of water over the cockpit coaming in front of the winches so we sail with 2 boards in on bad days. (when my BIL is at the helm) If, under a reefed main and 110 jib, you start to question your sanity then it's time to head in. I value my non sailing friends and simply return to the dock before they start ripping chunks of the hand rails off. Flat is definately faster in a C22 and much easier on you. A jib downhaul also should be required equipment. Ray
Watch for the broach!!
No one has mentioned downwind sailing which can be the most dangerous point of sail. I've broached, sails in the water, no fun. Regards, Bob B. C22 swing keel.
No one has mentioned downwind sailing which can be the most dangerous point of sail. I've broached, sails in the water, no fun. Regards, Bob B. C22 swing keel.
knocked down on our shake down cruise
the winds became too strong so we decided to head in - with the outboard running and my daughter at the tiller to keep it into the wind, I furled the headsail and then befor I could realease the mainsail haliard - wam the mast was in the water - water was coming into the cockpit. I hung on and in about a minute the boat righted and the cockpit drained. The reason I feed we were knocked down was that I centered the boom and locked in the mainsheet. With the boat underway under power the wind caught the mainsail and wam. Lessons learned - when you want to take in sails let the sheets fly and lower tnem - my boat righted very quickly - if I had not had all the companionway boards in a lot of water would have gotten into the cabin. I was thankfull that I had pins holding the anchor and cockpit compartments closed. I did not have one on the fule compartment and it flew open and the tank was held on board only by the fuel lint to the outboard. The incedent gave me a great desire to improve my abilities and also increased my faith in my catalina 22 swing keel - they are forgiving.
the winds became too strong so we decided to head in - with the outboard running and my daughter at the tiller to keep it into the wind, I furled the headsail and then befor I could realease the mainsail haliard - wam the mast was in the water - water was coming into the cockpit. I hung on and in about a minute the boat righted and the cockpit drained. The reason I feed we were knocked down was that I centered the boom and locked in the mainsheet. With the boat underway under power the wind caught the mainsail and wam. Lessons learned - when you want to take in sails let the sheets fly and lower tnem - my boat righted very quickly - if I had not had all the companionway boards in a lot of water would have gotten into the cabin. I was thankfull that I had pins holding the anchor and cockpit compartments closed. I did not have one on the fule compartment and it flew open and the tank was held on board only by the fuel lint to the outboard. The incedent gave me a great desire to improve my abilities and also increased my faith in my catalina 22 swing keel - they are forgiving.
A lot !!!
I was out in 35 mile winds on Lake Michigan just last week.My main was very blown out.The gusting put the windows in the water at least 6 or more times.I just pushed the tiller so that the boat headed up into the wind and she popped right back up.By the way ,the very next day I ordered a new main!
I was out in 35 mile winds on Lake Michigan just last week.My main was very blown out.The gusting put the windows in the water at least 6 or more times.I just pushed the tiller so that the boat headed up into the wind and she popped right back up.By the way ,the very next day I ordered a new main!
Choosing the Right Sail Plan
I take my boat out when everyone at the Club is saying, "are you crazy". A normal sail in the Spring in our area is in 27 to 33 winds with gust in the 40s, MPH. I just bought a new main sail with a double-reef. A C22 handles great with a double-reef and a 70 percent jib in these winds. Fellow sailors have already giving the best advice in being careful about sheeting the main in too tight. Most of the knock-down power comes from the main. If you are out and the wind picks up and the boat gets tippy (wont's to round up), drop the traveler and ease the main sheet until you can pull a reef. Now suggestions for taking your wife out: (1) 5-10, Great she will love it! (2) 10-15, Perfect, but may want to put the 110 up. (3) 15-20, Reef and 110 will work--wife may not want to go. (4) 20+, Great wind to learn how to avoid knock-downs.
I take my boat out when everyone at the Club is saying, "are you crazy". A normal sail in the Spring in our area is in 27 to 33 winds with gust in the 40s, MPH. I just bought a new main sail with a double-reef. A C22 handles great with a double-reef and a 70 percent jib in these winds. Fellow sailors have already giving the best advice in being careful about sheeting the main in too tight. Most of the knock-down power comes from the main. If you are out and the wind picks up and the boat gets tippy (wont's to round up), drop the traveler and ease the main sheet until you can pull a reef. Now suggestions for taking your wife out: (1) 5-10, Great she will love it! (2) 10-15, Perfect, but may want to put the 110 up. (3) 15-20, Reef and 110 will work--wife may not want to go. (4) 20+, Great wind to learn how to avoid knock-downs.
Show and Tell
I gained a TON of confidence in my boat's heeling ability and what is reasonable by having an experienced racer take the helm of my boat while I crewed. We sailed along happily and confidently heeled over at an angle that, previous to this, I would have been to scared to even approach while skippering. It was this person's utterly calm demeanor while trying to squeeze another 1/2 a knot out of the sails that helped me relax and realize that considerable heeling does not mean imminent disaster. Perhaps you could find an experienced C22 skipper/racer to go out on YOUR boat with you two to give you both more confidence in what your well-built boat can handle. Steve
I gained a TON of confidence in my boat's heeling ability and what is reasonable by having an experienced racer take the helm of my boat while I crewed. We sailed along happily and confidently heeled over at an angle that, previous to this, I would have been to scared to even approach while skippering. It was this person's utterly calm demeanor while trying to squeeze another 1/2 a knot out of the sails that helped me relax and realize that considerable heeling does not mean imminent disaster. Perhaps you could find an experienced C22 skipper/racer to go out on YOUR boat with you two to give you both more confidence in what your well-built boat can handle. Steve
Reef above 20 mph
and just go with the main at 25+ mph. I've been out in 25 - 30 mph winds with just a reefed main. That was pure fun. The boat was fast and flat and the waves were wild.
and just go with the main at 25+ mph. I've been out in 25 - 30 mph winds with just a reefed main. That was pure fun. The boat was fast and flat and the waves were wild.
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