Boat Explosion in Greenport

[shemandr]

We're always warned about gasoline as a fuel on a boat. Yet I was not personally aware of a specific explosion that wasn't a case of putting the gas in a rod holder or similar Darwinian mistake. Now I have one. This guy did some plumbing for me and owns or owned a restaurant on the grounds of the Marina. I hope he recovers. No word yet on cause.

'Violent' boat explosion in Greenport injures two - The Suffolk Times

Two people were injured when a boat exploded at 3:52 Tuesday afternoon at a fueling dock at Safe Harbor’s Greenport Marina, sending two people into the water, according to a Southold Police release. Two people on the boat, identified as William Gremler, 61, of Mattituck, and Lisa Schoenstein...

suffolktimes.timesreview.com

I hope the link works.

 

[FastOlson]

Awful day for all those present.
Nearly identical to the explosion and sinking at the fuel dock very near our moorage, about a decade ago.
In our case, the motor boat was refueled to to the top of the tank, and a new owner did not know that there was a bad hose connection - just below the fill fitting - that let a quantity of gas escape into the bilge at the final part of fueling. They pushed out and, IIRC, the boat was destroyed when they started a second engine. No one killed, altho all were thrown into the water and boat sank.
While I do understand that constant attention can make a gas-fueled boat safe, I still prefer something less explosive like diesel.
Heres hoping that your friend recovers OK! And, that his insurance includes "pollution abatement and wreck removal". We are currently rewriting our moorage rules where members have to show proof of this coverage, and of course a few are chaffing at having to send in a copy of a policy page beyond the Declarations Page copy.

 

[Leeward Rail]

In addition to being less volatile, i have always assumed that an equivalent diesel was cheaper to operate. Is that valid ?
Having no interest whatsoever in motoryachts/power boats, I never bothered to confirm that.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Having owned gas powered boats for 20+ years, I have a pretty good idea of what happened:
He started his engine(s) without following safety protocol that used to be taught in USCG Aux and US Power Squadron (now renamed something else) boating safety classes when they were taught "live" instead of online.

It's not the gas that explodes, it's the gas FUMES and the air around your fuel fill deck fitting is loaded with gas fumes while fueling....which is why you should never run bilge blowers during fueling...they pull in the air they push out. The human nose is the best gas fume detector, so after fueling always lift the hatch over the fuel tank and stick your nose into the bilge to sniff for fumes before starting the blowers...don't start them if you smell gas! Run blowers for at least 2 minutes before starting engine(s). (Sniffing and running blowers for at least 4 minutes is also standard safety protocol for firing up gas engines to leave your slip).

Is following all that safety protocol a PITA? Yes! But not nearly as big a PITA as being blown into the next life--and maybe taking the people on the boat next to you with you-- by an explosion. And owners who get away without following them are just lucky...until their luck runs out.

--Peggie

 

[Leeward Rail]

boating safety classes when they were taught "live" instead of online

That should not be a thing. All boating classes should be hands on.
What's next online virtual road vehicle training ?

 

[sail sfbay]

Very unfortunate and I also hope they recover. It will be interesting to learn about the root cause of the explosion. I operated a Correctcraft Sport Nautique for 20 years without incident, albeit I bought it new. I inspected the engine compartment for any signs of gasoline leakage before I launched the boat plus religiously operated the engine blower for up to 4 minutes before I turned the engine on after fueling or first launching as
Peggie Hall HeadMistress and After Fueling Your Boat (boat-ed.com) recommend.

FastOlson brings up a good point about having fuel spill insurance liability limit of $939,800 Fuel Spill Pollution | United Marine Underwriters

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

All boating classes should be hands on.

Mine were 6 weeks of 2 hour classroom instruction with slides (this was before tablets were invented), lots of opportunity for questions and discussion, ending with a short test on that week's material. We learned the "rules of the road," weather, lights--running, anchor etc, safety (such things as "never jump off a moving boat onto the dock" and "all body parts IN the boat while underway)... For me, Q&A/discussion was one of the most valuable parts of the class.

Re the boat-ed recommendation to open all hatches and windows during fueling. I was taught to CLOSE them all before fueling to keep gas fumes out of the cabin.

--Peggie

 

[DArcy]

"the explosion occured shortly after Gremler finished fueling his 29-foot Luhrs and started the boat’s engines."
It sure sounds like gas vapor in the engine compartment.
Interesting comment by Peggie about NOT running the blower during refueling. I grew up on a gas engine boat and had my own for 20 years (Atomic 4 in both cases). My dad always closed the hatches and ran the blower during fueling and I did the same. I did leave the forward hatch open often since the prevailing wind at our fuel dock is from the West and I normally had the bow pointed West while fueling forcing fresh air into the boat (positive pressure ventilation). I really don't believe there would be enough gas fumes in open air to cause an explosion but there could well be enough inside an engine compartment or bilge. In order to explode the fuel vapor needs to exceed the lower explosive limit, which is fairly low for gasoline but still very difficult to achieve in a well ventilated space or open air. And of course, always run the blower for 4 minutes (another discrepancy, I was taught 4 not 2 minutes) before starting the engine. The time is based on the number of air exchanges the blower fan can achieve in a minute for the given space so maybe I was taught a conservative number. And give the engine compartment or blower exhaust a sniff before cranking.

 

[Leeward Rail]

I was taught to CLOSE them all before fueling to keep gas fumes out of the cabin.

That only makes sense.
Keep the fumes out of the boat when fueling....
Vent any fumes AFTER refueling and BEFORE you start the engine(s) or any electrical spark producing devices.

Are are the blower motors always sealed to TRY prevent spark ignition ? It wouldn't make sense to make them with open casing motors.

 

[shemandr]

I had pretty much the same experiences on my Dad's boat. But it was over 50 years ago. I don't remember the exact protocol he was very careful about gas vapors. I think he got the young kids off the boat until the motor was running.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Are are the blower motors always sealed to TRY prevent spark ignition ?

Of course...and all MARINE below-deck electrical switches are ignition protected. However, that doesn't prevent some boat owners from deciding they "can't see any reason to pay $12.95 for that switch just because the word MARINE is on the label when I can buy the same switch at Home Depot for $7.50." They're responsible for most marina boat fires...they come aboard after the boat has sat since the previous weekend, first thing they do is turn on the air conditioning without even blowing the bilges and Kaboom!

--Peggie
(enjoying the opportunity to talk about something besides marine toilets for a change!)

 

[kappykaplan]

(enjoying the opportunity to talk about something besides marine toilets for a change!)

 

[shemandr]

...(enjoying the opportunity to talk about something besides marine toilets for a change!).

Maybe you should write a book about engine fluid maintenance.

 

[SEMPERAVANTI41]

I docked my boat 3 slips away from that explosion for 5 years. Why am I not surprised? I used to always wonder why this didn't happen on a daily basis. I cannot ever remembering seeing a gasoline powered boat close all hatches while fueling and operate the blower for 2 minutes before starting the engines.

 

[rgranger]

That should not be a thing. All boating classes should be hands on.
What's next online virtual road vehicle training ?

Naw! Self driving cars will come with a short list of voice commands and you are good to go.

 

[Rick Webb]

Something else to remember besides it being the vapor that explodes and just a teaspoon of gas makes a lot of vapor is that the vapor is heavier than air.

it is going to collect in the bottom of your bilge right about where your bilge pump is.

I taught those classes for the Coast Guard Auxiliary we always taught close everything up while fueling. The open everything. Do a sniff test. Run the blower for several minutes before starting and for several minutes after you get underway as any leak may take some time to migrate down.

Also your blower should be sucking air up from as low as you can get a hose to like around the bilge pump.

 

[sailme88]

JUST how much safer is diesel than gasoline ? As a professional firefighter I used to instruct groups on the selection, and usage of hand held fire extinguishers. We used what we called a flash pan for Class B (liquid) fires. We used diesel fuel. Part of the process was demonstrating how safe diesel fuel is. In the pan we would add 2-3" of water. Then add the diesel. This was to keep the bottom of the pas cool and illustrate that water is heavier. Then we would try to light the diesel using thrown matches, long gas grill igniters, 12" matches all to no end. So, to start the fire a 2 oz cup of gasoline. The gas is lighter than the diesel and floats on top. Now a match will light the gas. ( actually the vapors) The ensuing flame heats the diesel to it's flash point and we are ready to attack a flammable liquids fire.. Gas will produce vapors that support combustion down to -45 degrees F and will auto ignite ( spontaneous combustion ) at 535 F. In comparison, diesel has a flash point close 150F and depending on refinement close on 200 or be down near 125F. Hence the need for glow plugs and compression to fire a Diesel engine .

 

[TimFromLI]

I remember another tragic case on Long Island a few years back.

1 Dead In Manorhaven Boat Explosion

One man is dead and another was injured when a boat exploded at Manhasset Bay Marina in Manorhaven Wednesday afternoon. According to detectives, two male occupants along with two male employees wer…

portwashington-news.com

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Maybe you should write a book about engine fluid maintenance

I think it best I write about the things I know something about...I dunno nuffin 'bout engine fluid maintenance.

--Peggie

 

[Leeward Rail]

As a professional firefighter I used to instruct groups on the selection, and usage of hand held fire extinguishers. We used what we called a flash pan for Class B (liquid) fires. We used diesel fuel.

Sounds like my childhood. My dad used to work for a fire equipment company and would train and do equipment demos. He also trained us kids how to use handheld extinguishers. Gasoline, Grease, Diesel, Oil.. How adding water/steam was a bad thing etc.
We had a few Ansul 20lb Red Line cartidge type units. That knowledge may save us one day.

.... those Ansul units can work well with just water and a cartidge during a watergun fight... or be modified into something more "interesting" with the right liquid, etc. Obviously when dad isn't home.

.... Flour/sawdust+container+hose to blow in+candle=fun/education.

Edit: or so I have been told.... this is likely false and dangerous info, so I don't recommend people trying it.