Blue Sea Fuse blocks

[katana750]

Hi again

I am still working on my electrical order list. I have another question that I can't seem to look up. I am going to go with the recommended blue sea fuse block. I am planing to replace my existing lights with leds so I am pretty comfortable with leaving that existing white wires in (unless somebody says its not a good idea) I think it would silly to give each led light its own circuit in the fuse box. So I would mark one circuit "lights", come out of the fuse box with one wire then what sort of device should I be looking for to tie the four leds together with or should they all be wrapped around the one fuse box post. That didn't seem quite right, but I didn't know how to word the search on google. After studing Sum's electrical upgrades I just can't quite figure it out...one picture has a mass of original white wires, the other one has a perfectly neat and tidy fuse box. I just can't quite figure out how to make a proper junction box. I know these are pretty basic questions, but I really do appreciate the help.

Dave

 

[Jackdaw]

Hi again

I am still working on my electrical order list. I have another question that I can't seem to look up. I am going to go with the recommended blue sea fuse block. I am planing to replace my existing lights with leds so I am pretty comfortable with leaving that existing white wires in (unless somebody says its not a good idea) I think it would silly to give each led light its own circuit in the fuse box. So I would mark one circuit "lights", come out of the fuse box with one wire then what sort of device should I be looking for to tie the four leds together with or should they all be wrapped around the one fuse box post. That didn't seem quite right, but I didn't know how to word the search on google. After studing Sum's electrical upgrades I just can't quite figure it out...one picture has a mass of original white wires, the other one has a perfectly neat and tidy fuse box. I just can't quite figure out how to make a proper junction box. I know these are pretty basic questions, but I really do appreciate the help.

Dave

Here is the best way.... Get several, I bet this will not be the last time this comes up! Run a single wire from the panel to the the first tap, and connected the light wires to the other taps.


http://bluesea.com/category/82/35/productline/184

 

[Sumner]

The busbar as shown will work. Another option that would cost less and handle the low amperage loads would be one of the....

....terminal strips also sold from the place in my link. Run the supply line in one side and it will feed to the post on the other side. Then tie as many posts ...

...as you need on the other side together with the piece above or this piece...

You could have different numbers of supply sources on one side depending on how long the terminal strip was and how many sources there are on the other side or buy shorter terminal strips with one supply on one side and the other side for the loads.

I would not use the terminal strips for high current loads, but for the lights and instruments you are fine. See the recommended amperage's...

http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Marine Electrical Supply/Terminal Blocks/

...and go by that.

For higher current loads or sources use the heavier duty busbars,

Sum

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[Jackdaw]

Sum,

That will work, but that you have exposed +12V power running exposed over the the tops of the barrier strips. The BUSS bars aren't that expensive! ;^)

 

[walt]

An idea I got from this forum a long time ago - also put a peice of clear lexan plastic over the DC power area where a screw driver or ??? might fall in and make contact, make the clear cover fairly easy to remove for access..

 

[Sumner]

I forgot this but another thing I do with the terminal strip is this. Say I have 3 circuits that I want to run off of one of the fuses in the Blue Sea Fuse box. I get a 6 terminal strip and run the positive from the fuse block to one side and towards one end. Then I'll run the negative also from the negative side of the fuse block to the same side of the terminal strip on the other end and away from the center towards the other end.

On the opposite side of the terminal strip I'll jumper 3 positive terminals and 3 negative terminals together starting just off the center of the strip in each direction.

Now it is real easy to bring the three load's duplex cables to the strip and strip them back a ways to expose the neg. and pos. wires and attach them to the same side of the terminal strip (neg. end and pos. end of the strip). This is clean and simple to do. Run one duplex cable from the other side of the strip to the Blue Sea fuse/ground center.

If you want 3 circuits considering using an 8 terminal strip then you have a spare set of contacts sitting there that you could use down the road.

If the terminal strips are sitting in an exposed area that you worry about then cover them as per Walt's suggestion. Ours aren't,

Sum

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Our Endeavour 37

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[katana750]

An idea I got from this forum a long time ago - also put a peice of clear lexan plastic over the DC power area where a screw driver or ??? might fall in and make contact, make the clear cover fairly easy to remove for access..

Thanks for all the responses. I just wasn't sure if the bus bar was the way to go or if they made a nice enclosed junction box. I really like the idea of the plexi glass

One more thing I thought of last night. I was planing on ordering a blue sea circuit panel (I see them in photos all the time) and blue sea fuse block. After looking at it bit more they essentially do the same thing. I want to be able to turn some of the circuits on and off and wasn't really looking for a bunch of individual switches although I could just mount them all on an nice finished piece of wood. Is it overkill to put both of them in? I also like the fact I can put smaller fuses in the fuse block.

I see sum original had a circuit panel and then he added a fuse block. Originally I assumed he keep using a circuit panel as well as some separate switches....after my epiphany last night I realized a circuit panel and a fuse block are essentially the same thing and now I am not so sure. I'm sorry if this is obviously in his web site, but I am getting a bit confused going back and forth. I think I have every thing straight in my head and then I then a question pops in my head and it seams I start from square one again. It would be a lot easier if I could just working on it and run to the store when I missed something.

This has to be last question. I hope.

Dave

 

[centerline]

Hi again

I am still working on my electrical order list. I have another question that I can't seem to look up. I am going to go with the recommended blue sea fuse block. I am planing to replace my existing lights with leds so I am pretty comfortable with leaving that existing white wires in (unless somebody says its not a good idea) I think it would silly to give each led light its own circuit in the fuse box. So I would mark one circuit "lights", come out of the fuse box with one wire then what sort of device should I be looking for to tie the four leds together with or should they all be wrapped around the one fuse box post. That didn't seem quite right, but I didn't know how to word the search on google. After studing Sum's electrical upgrades I just can't quite figure it out...one picture has a mass of original white wires, the other one has a perfectly neat and tidy fuse box. I just can't quite figure out how to make a proper junction box. I know these are pretty basic questions, but I really do appreciate the help.

Dave

as others have said, to keep the fuse panel and wiring neat dont connect ALL the wires there. you CAN if you want.... depending on how basic your wiring is and if you ever plan on expanding, but if you are taking the time to clean it up and make it better then add a couple of 6 or 8 terminal buss panels like Sumner suggested....
use the fuse panel for the fuses and have a seperate buss panel for the battery + connections, and another seperate buss panel for the battery - connections. in this manner all the fuse panel will do is hold the fuses and switches to the circuits..... the wires coming out of the fuse panel circuits will go to their respective buss panel and then you can stack as many wires on the post as you need to and still have room to expand. if you have more wires than will fit on one post and need more room, make a 2.5" jumper wire and connect it to two posts next to one another and you will have double the space to stack wires.
ONE THING that bothered me about your posting was the words "or should they be all wrapped around one fuse box post". im sure this isnt meant as it sounds, but just to clarify, there should be no wrapping in the electrical circuits, not of wires around posts, or of tape around wires. if you want a clean and neat job use terminal ends and heat shrink tube.
(and I prefer the buss panels with studs rather than screws 'cuz they're easier to work with if you use ring terminals rather than the slotted, slip in type......and they hold more, but they may be a bit harder to find....

 

[katana750]

as others have said, to keep the fuse panel and wiring neat dont connect ALL the wires there. you CAN if you want.... depending on how basic your wiring is and if you ever plan on expanding, but if you are taking the time to clean it up and make it better then add a couple of 6 or 8 terminal buss panels like Sumner suggested....
use the fuse panel for the fuses and have a seperate buss panel for the battery + connections, and another seperate buss panel for the battery - connections. in this manner all the fuse panel will do is hold the fuses and switches to the circuits..... the wires coming out of the fuse panel circuits will go to their respective buss panel and then you can stack as many wires on the post as you need to and still have room to expand. if you have more wires than will fit on one post and need more room, make a 2.5" jumper wire and connect it to two posts next to one another and you will have double the space to stack wires.
ONE THING that bothered me about your posting was the words "or should they be all wrapped around one fuse box post". im sure this isnt meant as it sounds, but just to clarify, there should be no wrapping in the electrical circuits, not of wires around posts, or of tape around wires. if you want a clean and neat job use terminal ends and heat shrink tube.
(and I prefer the buss panels with studs rather than screws 'cuz they're easier to work with if you use ring terminals rather than the slotted, slip in type......and they hold more, but they may be a bit harder to find....

Yes I agree....poor choice of words. I'll avoid wrapping, bunching and randomly touching....the current choice of connections in my boat. I was hoping they made a nice junction box, but the buss bars and plex cover should make a neat safe junction area.

I am getting a fairly clear picture now.....just one last question about using a circut panel with a fuse block and I am set. I am leaning towards getting both, a few extra fuses can't hurt. I can turn the circuits off and on with the panel and put smaller fuses in the fuse box and it should keep everything organized. albeit a bit redundant. The battery wires go to the Blue Sea circuit panel first,(This has + - buss bars in it, and then smaller 12 gauge wires to the fuse box. Then buss bars for splitting and future use after the fuse block, but I will listen to advice first.

Thanks Dave

 

[Sumner]

I think there are two kinds of Blue Sea fuse boxes. One with and one without a negative bus in the box. I bought the one with it.

You can use the fuse box with a larger fuse in it and larger wire over to the switch panel if you go that way and then the smaller fuses to the individual circuits controlled by the switch panel.

Also don't forget that you can run a smaller gauge wire with more amps if it is a short run. Use a wire calculator like previous shown or this one...

https://www.colemanair.us/vp_asp/Scripts/Articles/TheBasicsAndBeyond5_WireSize.htm

...to see what size wire you need to use on a run. For my solar wiring I use the 2% drop. For other runs 3%, but I think some people go more drop.

Yes I got rid of the switch panel and use individual switches in the locations they are needed. This is just a personal preference and worked well in the Mac and I'd do it again that way.

For the Endeavour I'm making switch panels with the switches and indicator LED's when and where I want them. Also I'll customize how the switches are laid out on the two panels and which have indicator lights and which don't and some will have two lights.

For instance the bilge pump switches (3 of them) are double throw center off switches. I'll have two indicator lights on those. One to show if it is in the auto position working off of the float or if it is in the manual position and running. Also if in the auto mode the manual light will come on if the pump is running. The 3 pumps are stacked vertically. If the second one comes on then an audible alarm will sound and I'll have a switch that I can turn it off.

So I just wanted a little more freedom to make the switch panels vs. the generic ones. I didn't like the fact that the switch panels don't use LED's in them. I'm sure the draw for the indicator lights is small, but I didn't want to go that way. They for sure are quicker to use and probably just what most people want. I'm just a little different ,

Sum

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Our Endeavour 37

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[katana750]

I think there are two kinds of Blue Sea fuse boxes. One with and one without a negative bus in the box. I bought the one with it.

You can use the fuse box with a larger fuse in it and larger wire over to the switch panel if you go that way and then the smaller fuses to the individual circuits controlled by the switch panel.

Also don't forget that you can run a smaller gauge wire with more amps if it is a short run. Use a wire calculator like previous shown or this one...

https://www.colemanair.us/vp_asp/Scripts/Articles/TheBasicsAndBeyond5_WireSize.htm

...to see what size wire you need to use on a run. For my solar wiring I use the 2% drop. For other runs 3%, but I think some people go more drop.

Yes I got rid of the switch panel and use individual switches in the locations they are needed. This is just a personal preference and worked well in the Mac and I'd do it again that way.

For the Endeavour I'm making switch panels with the switches and indicator LED's when and where I want them. Also I'll customize how the switches are laid out on the two panels and which have indicator lights and which don't and some will have two lights.

For instance the bilge pump switches (3 of them) are double throw center off switches. I'll have two indicator lights on those. One to show if it is in the auto position working off of the float or if it is in the manual position and running. Also if in the auto mode the manual light will come on if the pump is running. The 3 pumps are stacked vertically. If the second one comes on then an audible alarm will sound and I'll have a switch that I can turn it off.

So I just wanted a little more freedom to make the switch panels vs. the generic ones. I didn't like the fact that the switch panels don't use LED's in them. I'm sure the draw for the indicator lights is small, but I didn't want to go that way. They for sure are quicker to use and probably just what most people want. I'm just a little different ,

Sum

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HI
You would put the fuse box ahead of the switch panel i It comes loaded with 15 amp breakers with Led light indicators. ( I agree with you about led lights....why wouldn't they use them, they last long and consume less electricity..... ) Is a circut panel and a switch panel the same thing? I guess I am a bit hung up with ac wiring. The large amps wires go into a large breaker panel first and then the smaller wires come out.....

Sorry I guess I just haven't had the aha moment yet.....I always think I am close....I guess my problem is I could either use a fuse block (I can use smaller fuses in it) or a circuit panel but I don't think I can go smaller than a 5 amp breaker. (But I can turn the circuit off, I can keep it out in the open, and it has led indicator lights on it.) I want to combine the attributes of both.

Thanks Dave

 

[Sumner]

.. Is a circut panel and a switch panel the same thing? ...

I guess it depends on what the person calls it.

Here are a number of switch panels and most if not all have either fuses or breakers associated with each switch...

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://search.defender.com/?expression=switch%20panel

Here is one that even has some LED's....

http://www.defender.com/expanded.jsp?path=-1|328|299263|1488027&id=1487975

but at $105.00 is a little much for me and still the switches and lights aren't exactly what I want. We also need about 14-18 switches, some single throw and some double throw.

If you can find one there that you like then you are all set. I just haven't found anything that really fits our needs.

If you could get by with something like this....

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|299263|776309&id=51126

.... which is similar to what came in our boat then you could use one fuse between your battery and the panel. It is really hard to tell you what you want to do without knowing everything you want to supply elect. to and where they are and so forth. You need to start by drawing up some kind of schematic so that you can visualize what you are doing and maybe post it for comments if you wanted others to comment. Bear in mind that you will probably have as many suggestions as posters. You will just have to figure out what you want in the end,

Sum[/FONT]

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Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

 

[katana750]

I guess it depends on what the person calls it.

Here are a number of switch panels and most if not all have either fuses or breakers associated with each switch...

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://search.defender.com/?expression=switch%20panel

Here is one that even has some LED's....

http://www.defender.com/expanded.jsp?path=-1|328|299263|1488027&id=1487975

but at $105.00 is a little much for me and still the switches and lights aren't exactly what I want. We also need about 14-18 switches, some single throw and some double throw.

If you can find one there that you like then you are all set. I just haven't found anything that really fits our needs.

If you could get by with something like this....

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|299263|776309&id=51126

.... which is similar to what came in our boat then you could use one fuse between your battery and the panel. It is really hard to tell you what you want to do without knowing everything you want to supply elect. to and where they are and so forth. You need to start by drawing up some kind of schematic so that you can visualize what you are doing and maybe post it for comments if you wanted others to comment. Bear in mind that you will probably have as many suggestions as posters. You will just have to figure out what you want in the end,

Sum[/FONT]

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Thanks again for the reply. I was hoping there was a difference between the two. I guess my problem is I like the flexibility of the fuse block but you can't turn it on and off and you have to hide it under a seat. The switch panel (blue sea) you can turn it on and off, it mounts in a visual place and looks good. I don't have to mount individual switches everywhere. I would be using the panel only as a way to organize the switches and the fuse block to protect the wires. The switch panel comes with 15 amp breakers.....this should more than fine with 12 gauge wire. Why don't I just use the panel? I really like flexibility with the fuse box and feel much safer with smaller amp fuses, and they are cheaper to buy than the resettable breakers. I also looked at just buying individual switches but the cost really wasn't that much more. My electrical set up is not nearly as involved as yours. If it was I don't think I would take it on my self. After I read a bit more I might be more confident. I schematic is probably more prudent. I was just hoping to buy a box of stuff and then run down to Montana and pick it up quick, but my knowledge is proving to be a limiting factor. I guess I should stop pushing my cart with my horse.

Dave

 

[katana750]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] You need to start by drawing up some kind of schematic so that you can visualize what you are doing and maybe post it for comments if you wanted others to comment. Bear in mind that you will probably have as many suggestions as posters. You will just have to figure out what you want in the end,

Ok laugh away. This is the best my computer skills will allow. I hope this make more sense on what I am babbling about. Thanks with bearing with me. If there is a easier way to have switches with led indicators and still have the flexibility as Sums fuse block. I am all ears and thick skinned....Skull is a bit thick too.

Dave
[/FONT]

 

[Sumner]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] You need to start by drawing up some kind of schematic so that you can visualize what you are doing and maybe post it for comments if you wanted others to comment. Bear in mind that you will probably have as many suggestions as posters. You will just have to figure out what you want in the end,

Ok laugh away. This is the best my computer skills will allow. I hope this make more sense on what I am babbling about. Thanks with bearing with me. If there is a easier way to have switches with led indicators and still have the flexibility as Sums fuse block. I am all ears and thick skinned....Skull is a bit thick too.

Dave
[/FONT]

Let's try this. Write down the items that you want to switch such as...interior lights, anchor light, bow light, stern light, 12 volt outlets, VHF, etc..

This will give you an idea of how many switches you want. If say the 12 volt outlets don't need to be switch they could just be on a fused circuit.

Also the Blue Seas fuse panel....

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|296553|336270&id=336204

...I used uses...

... spade fuses so you can put in about any size in that you want depending on the circuit from 1 amp to 30 amp and they don't cost much, not like breakers do.

You would wire from the battery to it and then one circuit from it would go to the switch panel for the items you want switched. There might be other items like the 12 volt outlets that aren't switched and would go from the fuse panel right to the outlets, not to the switches. Your light circuits might just come from the fuse panel and not go through the switches if the switches were on the lights and so on.

Hope that helps, but there are many ways to wire the boat you just have to decide what works best for you and is safe,

Sum

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Our Endeavour 37

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[katana750]

Ok you have said it twice now....I take the hint. I'll run the battery wires to the fuse block first. I was just so hung up on the progression of fuse size I kind of forgot about the fact I don't need to turn everything on and off with a switch. I can't really think of anything that I would want to switch on and off on a regular bases.....maybe the running lights, but I really don't intend to run around in the dark. The circuit panel is really unnecessary, but I liked the idea of having indicator lights to show everything is working. The more I think about it is probably just a waste of money. It would make more sense to buy a few individual switches maybe with Led lights on them I did attach a little drawing to my other email, but it is kind of useless.

Thanks for sticking with me and talking me out of wasting my money. I better go now I am getting the stink eye from my wife and little girl. Whats their problem, I can't think of anything more festive than sailboats.

Dave

 

[centerline]

not trying to confuse ya, but you can install a battery combiner/disconnect switch at any time later....
BUT for now your needs are to get the circuits all straightened out, marked well and on a good switch/fuse or circuit breaker panel...
for a smaller boat like ours, I like fuses rather than circuit breakers 'cuz if there is a problem, you can check the fuse visually and either replace it or look elsewhere for the failure... with circuit breakers, although its uncommon, I have had them fail for no reason, and after using tools to test the circuit, there is no recourse but to replace it which can be hard to do depending on the circumstances at the moment it fails you... and will usually take more tools to replace it... a quality fuse panel is simpler and more dependable in my opinion (and more affordable)....

when you get ready to install the combiner/disconnect switch (or maybe you only want a disconnect switch) between the battery and the fuse/switch panel, it will only involve the batt + wire. all you will need to do there is to mount the switch, then remove the batt + wire from the battery (leaving it connected to the fuse panel) and move it to the combiner/disconnect switch..... then add a new wire from the other side of the switch to the battery.... easy...