Block Heater for Cranky 3gm30f ?

[Stretch]

Any PNW sailors try installing an external 110v engine block heater, that connects to a fresh water hose and heats coolant with no pump? Oil warming type units don't seem too effective.
Is it worthwhile for our 12 month winter cruising up here ?

Currently I have to turn on the Espar full blast and pull the access hatch off to get a 5 sec start when on the hook, or a small 110 v heater on the dock.

How much wd40 spray do you use when trying a cold start ?

Doesn't seem like glowplugs are available for older blocks[1991] like many other diesels have.
As with many hard starting diesel postings, the engine starts and runs great when warm. Air leakage, blocked mixing elbow, bad fuel are not an issue this time. The battery is a near new group 27 and the 1,2 ALL switch is set on all, with the shore power connected.
Thanks for your reply.

 

[Steve Dion]

I would try to get the engine fixed before I would mess with these options. "Normally" these engines start on the first or second try even in colder weather.

Be sure that you are advancing the throttle between 50-75% when starting.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Curious, what is the temp when she begins the hard starting routine? I'm thinking like Steve, something else is wrong. It was in the 30's for a good portion of my trip from North Carolina to Jax, Fl. The 3YM30 started within 3 seconds without fail.

 

[Neil McDonald]

I am based nearby and agree with Ed and Steve that there is a different problem somewhere here. Unless the solution is lack of throttle when starting, I would look first for a slow fuel leak.

My engine had a slow leak at the banjo joint on the Yanmar fuel filter. Never a problem if the engine had been run in the last 24 hrs or so but the longer it sat the more fuel came out, the more air went in and the harder the start. Try running your fingers around the fuel line areas after she has sat for a while and see if they get wet. Good luck.

 

[sailaway78]

Hard starting Yanmars

Both my boats, previous with a 2QM, and current with a 3GM, are somewhat difficult to start when temps get below about 40. With the 2QM, playing with the throttle helped, and it started best at full throttle. With the 3GM, I use a 150 watt heat lamp, placed to heat the head. Works well. Add a little throttle, and it fires right off.

 

[tkanzler]

My engine had a slow leak at the banjo joint on the Yanmar fuel filter. Never a problem if the engine had been run in the last 24 hrs or so but the longer it sat the more fuel came out, the more air went in and the harder the start.

My 3GM would, if sitting for a week or so, start on one cylinder, then a second would kick in, and eventually the third. Full throttle helped, but fixing the fuel problem was, of course, the real fix.

 

[kloudie1]

Here is an interesting part that is used on tractors for COLD starts.. It fits into the intake manifold and, I believe.. not positive, that it is made to go into the big plugged hole in the manifold just behind the air filter .. Not sure of this because cold starts are not much of a problem here..
http://www.hoyetractor.com/thermostart.htm
It would require a little diesel tank and some electrical hook-up.. Heats the intake air a little and provides for some warm diesel vapor to help start..

 

[Stretch]

Thanks for the quick replies. I will look at Neil's suggestion tomorrow, the banjo and wet lines as described.The throttle is 1/2 way at least and 3/4 or more in colder weather. It is poor starting even in summer compared to some of yours. I just assumed some diesels were just ornery, like in Capt Ron, haha
Also, I read today somewhere that full throttle is supposed to help cold starting on this engine, so I will try that too.
The engine is 20 yrs old with very light seasonal use and less than 1000 hrs. Must be warmed up close to 10 min or stalls when forward engaged. Idle is 6-700 rpm, fuel is fresh, treated and filters changed. Mechanic went over it last fall no issues in survey. Prop seems large for a 35.5 Hunter, 16x13 3 blade, that could carbon up things.
Thanks again

 

[Stu Jackson]

You should also check your engine ground wire connection. Many times hard starts have do with more than just fuel and throttle.

 

[kloudie1]

Note: specified idle speed is 850 Plus or minus 25 RPM.. Not a start problem, but is part of the off idle cold problem..(long warm-up) ..use a hand-held tachometer to calibrate.. the one on the instrument panel is normally not accurate enough ..
In line block heater: The marine engine probably does not have enough difference in height for a thermosyphon one to work .. There are heaters available from the tractor guys that replace a core plug in the side of the block and plug into 120V .

 

[SycloneDriver]

check timing

Late injection timing will make cold starting difficult. Check it or have it checked. Have the injector tested on a bench at a diesel or marine shop.

Try a small magnetic heater if you can find a good place to stick it to. We use these at work when the block heaters fail on our backup generators, but only untill we have time to install a new block heater. They seen to work and can be found on 200w and 300w versions.

 

[mayday]

old and cranky

Just to add a bit more fuel to the fire (so to speak) - our 2GM falls into your "cranky" category - over 6800hrs, no smoke, doesn't burn oil, injectors good, timing good etc, but just like yours, below ~14C and she never really wants to start.
You can try expensive block heaters, pre-heaters etc, but over the years, I've found full throttle, and 10minutes with the wife's hairdryer against the air intake worked wonders.
Got into the routine that first thing when we got to the dock was throw the hairdryer in the engine compartment pointed at the intake, then put stuff away, get the tarp off etc, and by then things were warmed up enough she would fire after only 5-10s cranking (vs 30-40 withough).

 

[Neil McDonald]

Adjusting Injection Timing

Late injection timing will make cold starting difficult. Check it or have it checked. Have the injector tested on a bench at a diesel or marine shop.

Interesting! Is there actually a system that directly adjusts injection timing? If so details please. Or is this suggestion simply that the condition of the injector needs testing at a qualified shop?

 

[SycloneDriver]

injection timing

Every diesel that I have ever worked on has some means to adjust the timing. I have never worked on a Yanmar though.

 

[Neil McDonald]

Every diesel that I have ever worked on has some means to adjust the timing. I have never worked on a Yanmar though.

Thanks to the wonders of Google I found that for a Yanmar engine "Injection timing is controlled by brass shims between the pump and the gear case cover". Sounds like a job for a professional!

 

[kloudie1]

certainly if you aren't comfortable with messing with shims..
The wear over lots of hours to the cam, the injection rollers and the injection pump itself will generally retard (delay) injection .. and can make starting difficult and decrease power slightly.. Ya might want to get a good Yanmar guy to check and reset if necessary.. Not cheap, but if done correctly will last a long time.

 

[Stretch]

Hi all, thanks for the ideas.
The engine had a pro going over last fall and the mechanic set the valves, replaced the mixing elbow[rusted], replaced the leaking old style antisyphon valve and did all the regular stuff. Stem to Stern Marine in Vancouver did it, they provide services to the dealer, Specialty Yachts, a top ten, long established Hunter dealer. No red flags here with service. The PO had this work done just prior to the listing for sale.

Idle is still 750, my tach at the helm is off at 600. No leak or drip evidence on the fuel delivery system at the engine. I didn't check the engine ground wire, but the wiring at the starter etc was clean and the battery tested good.

I think ''Mayday'' is spot on with his commment.I just have a bitchy old lady !

Syclone, I thought about the timing but I wonder if the mechanic would have set that in his major ''tuneup''.

I will try that full throttle cold start when I am on the hook this weekend on Gambier Is and also inspect the ground wire connection quality too.

Thanks for the replies. Fair Winds to all.

 

[Neil McDonald]

Hi all, thanks for the ideas.
The engine had a pro going over last fall and the mechanic set the valves, replaced the mixing elbow[rusted], replaced the leaking old style antisyphon valve and did all the regular stuff. Stem to Stern Marine in Vancouver did it, they provide services to the dealer, Specialty Yachts, a top ten, long established Hunter dealer. No red flags here with service. The PO had this work done just prior to the listing for sale.

I will try that full throttle cold start when I am on the hook this weekend on Gambier Is and also inspect the ground wire connection quality too.

Joe Torres at Stem to Stern is the Yanmar professional that I use. He and they are excellent. If the fulll throttle start does not solve your problem, try asking Joe after mentioning their previous work on your boat. I assume that you know about the risks of sucking water back through the exhaust into the engine if you crank for too long. Enjoy Gambier.

 

[Stretch]

Full throttle starting worked. The engine turned over faster that way. After the 3rd cylinder caught it was running after 8 seconds and I could disengage the starter. That was with no preheat on the hook. Preheating and full throttle was 4 seconds to start when I left the marina. I also idled at 12 to 1400 rpm to warm it up, it won't stall on me then.
No ground wire issues were found.
Didnt need to try WD40 in the air intake.

40 knot wind and waterspouts off Pt Atkinson made for an interesting friday sail to Gambier. Couldn't get the furler to work at 30 kn so I had to tuck into 5 Coves to get the sail in. One mayday and 2 panpans in Georgia Strait from that ugly squall. Must have been more violent near Vancouver. Could only make 4 kn headway until it eased to less than 30. Made me wonder about the people in last weeks Alaskan storm north of us...