Block and Tackle Arrangement for Self-Hoist Mast Climbing

[rardiH36]

I'm interested to make a 3:1 purchase self hoist bosun's chair assembly for mast climbing. (... still in good enough shape to pull down the 60 lbs (or so) to get my 180 lbs up.)

But I haven't been able to find any diagrams or equipment list on the internet that specify the block and tackle arrangements. For example is just one ratchet block needed or are both ratchets? And how is the "hoist" part of the line routed so that it won't run out if accidentally let go. And what method is used to secure the hoist line when the working point is reached?

The only people that I have seen using this type of self hoisting in my area are in the rigging trade -- So I don't feel right asking them how to do it!

Any info to steer me in the right direction will be appreciated. Many thanks.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Re: Block and Tackle Arrangement for Self-Hoist Mast Climbin

Couple of things
don't go aloft without a helper down below. An if you have a helper just use the halyard and the winch.
If you must use a block (buy LOTS of line)(purchase * mast height*1.1 minimum) then understand that as you pull down on the line that makes your weight actual decrease as far as the chair is concerned, the line is lifting the chair so if you pull down at 50 lb and weight 200 the the line only "sees" 150 lb. You probably do not need a 3:1 purchase.
The reason you have not found any info is most folks don't do it that way. Either assenders (google it) or winch and helper or mast steps
On a related note, the block with ratchet feature is a VERY expensive item to buy which is why most folks us mountain climbing assenders
Also consider safety and practicality. Safety would dictate never go aloft all by yourself and I've found that once i get up there I ALWAYS need a tool I did not think I would so ALWAYS take a line up with you to haul up that tool you did not think you needed. course you will need someone to go get the tool and put it in a bucket for you.......
winch and helper!

 

[Ross]

Re: Block and Tackle Arrangement for Self-Hoist Mast Climbin

I use a four part tackle and climbers on the hauling part. the climbers are secured to my harness. I don't use a ratchet block.

 

[rardiH36]

Couple of things
don't go aloft without a helper down below. An if you have a helper just use the halyard and the winch.
If you must use a block (buy LOTS of line)(purchase * mast height*1.1 minimum) then understand that as you pull down on the line that makes your weight actual decrease as far as the chair is concerned, the line is lifting the chair so if you pull down at 50 lb and weight 200 the the line only "sees" 150 lb. You probably do not need a 3:1 purchase.
The reason you have not found any info is most folks don't do it that way. Either assenders (google it) or winch and helper or mast steps
On a related note, the block with ratchet feature is a VERY expensive item to buy which is why most folks us mountain climbing assenders
Also consider safety and practicality. Safety would dictate never go aloft all by yourself and I've found that once i get up there I ALWAYS need a tool I did not think I would so ALWAYS take a line up with you to haul up that tool you did not think you needed. course you will need someone to go get the tool and put it in a bucket for you.......
winch and helper!

Bill:

Thanks for the tips and considerations. Having backup safety will be a given! But as to the most simple up mast method, that is being hoisted by others, I seem to have difficulty trusting my life to the ability of dock mates or friends to correctly handle the winches and then paying out the wraps on the way down. Seems to me it is something that requires practice and utmost confidence in the helper's abilities to feel secure. More than a few times, being out with other owners and sometimes seeing how uncertainly they can handle the primary winches (and other things) on an unfamiliar boat, I know I would have a serious case of the willies just dangling there fifty feet up. I want the primary control to be me. Friends/mates can attend to keeping the slack out of a second safety halyard routed around a winch. Or, I could rig a second halyard taught right next to my ascension route and slide a Prusik knot up/down along it, also attached to the bosun's chair ring. Cumbersome and slow, but it would provide the backup safety. I'm also thinking that whatever method I settle on, I might want to buy (and don) an inexpensive mountain climbing harness to attach the backup safety line just in case something goes wrong with me on the bosun's chair. (Comments on the Prusik and backup harness items?).

I do have two 3" Harken ratchet blocks on hand. Old but still very solid. Putting these into mast climbing service is what is prompting me to investigate the block and tackle hoist method.

I have also been looking at the ATN Mastclimber ascender unit which is very intriguing.

p.s. I have the probably typical sense of uneasiness about heights ... but know from many many tree climbings to prune and also some corporate team building outings that I won't freeze up!

 

[rardiH36]

I use a four part tackle and climbers on the hauling part. the climbers are secured to my harness. I don't use a ratchet block.

Ross:

Can you provide a description of (or link to) "climbers"? My Google searching just yields of information about people mountain climbers. Not the equipment type of "climber". Thanks.

 

[justsomeguy]

Re: Block and Tackle Arrangement for Self-Hoist Mast Climbin

He might mean "acsender". Look up Gri-gri or Jumar.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Re: Block and Tackle Arrangement for Self-Hoist Mast Climbin

https://www.google.com/search?q=mou...pw.r_qf.&fp=5c6d484e544aaf64&biw=1400&bih=856

 

[Bill Roosa]

Re: Block and Tackle Arrangement for Self-Hoist Mast Climbin

Unless you have a solo requirement I'm telling you a winch is the best way to go. Get a few blocks to lead back to a sheet winch if you have to.
I've used ascenders and while they work they are a real PITA as the line is loose below and you swing all over the place, you are tired upon getting t the top.....PITA!

 

[rardiH36]

....Unless you have a solo requirement I'm telling you a winch is the best way to go. Get a few blocks to lead back to a sheet winch if you have to.
I've used ascenders and while they work they are a real PITA as the line is loose below and you swing all over the place, you are tired upon getting t the top.....PITA!

Bill:

Noted and will factor into the outcome decision.

In case that you haven't seen the ATN Mastclimber video. Here is the link. It's short. The ascent/descent line is first winched tight which would appear to keep the climber from deviating more than a a couple of feet.

Might not be the decision for my quest, but it looks quite cool! Selling for $325 at Bacon Sails Annapolis. Definitely more $'s than only a bosun's chair plus friends on the winch.

http://www.atninc.com/atn-mastclimber-sailing-equipment.shtml

 

[Joe]

Re: Block and Tackle Arrangement for Self-Hoist Mast Climbin

First of all....I'd go with 4:1. No ratchet, two fiddle blocks, one with a becket for the top part of the tackle. The bottom block attaches to the chair or harness, the top to a jib halyard... The tail of the lift line will come downward from the top block... to be tied off on the chair's hoist ring if you are hoisting yourself, or extend to crew on deck. A second halyard is tied on to the harness/chair to act as a safety line.

There's a couple of choices.... the crew can winch, or pull you up while you handle the safety line, or you can hoist yourself and let the crew work the backup, safety line. Or you can enlist a third crew to help.

Even with the 4:1 tackle.... the person going up can help those hoisting him by also climbing....... this means wearing lace up style deck shoes to grip the mast.

Make sure you can stand or rest when you get to the top...... some chairs get uncomfortable after a bit.... a short line with a foot loop tied to the either halyard will help you re position your ass, or even stand up for a short spell.

Make sure the bridle on the chair is short....otherwise, you may be reaching up to get to your work, which is very tiring... This was the problem with my first chair when I put the tackle on it..... it worked okay with a straight halyard, but the extra 2 feet of tackle made things very hard on the arms, neck and shoulders.

Do not use twisted, nylon line......... The first time I used my 3/8 anchor rode, because I didn't want to buy 150 ft of polyester double braid......... trust me when I tell you that nylon stretches! and the laid rope twists! You'll feel like a bungy jumper.

 

[Joe]

Bill:

ATN Mastclimber

Might not be the decision for my quest, but it looks quite cool! Selling for $325 at Bacon Sails Annapolis. Definitely more $'s than only a bosun's chair plus friends on the winch.

http://www.atninc.com/atn-mastclimber-sailing-equipment.shtml

You can buy a set of "ascenders" at any outdoor sports store like REI. They will show you how to easily build your own rope climbing system for 1/3 the price of the ATN system. http://www.rei.com/search?query=ascenders

 

[FastOlson]

I'm interested to make a 3:1 purchase self hoist bosun's chair assembly for mast climbing. (... still in good enough shape to pull down the 60 lbs (or so) to get my 180 lbs up.)

But I haven't been able to find any diagrams or equipment list on the internet that specify the block and tackle arrangements. For example is just one ratchet block needed or are both ratchets? And how is the "hoist" part of the line routed so that it won't run out if accidentally let go. And what method is used to secure the hoist line when the working point is reached?

The only people that I have seen using this type of self hoisting in my area are in the rigging trade -- So I don't feel right asking them how to do it!
Any info to steer me in the right direction will be appreciated. Many thanks.

A professional rigger that I used to know would use a Harken 4 to 1 tackle. He would hoist the upper fiddle block up to the top first (he had a bit over 200' feet of low-stretch line in the whole tackle) and then pull him self up with the last fall of the line. He was fit but not like a gym rat or anything. When he was about 50 years old, he 'retired' and found a day job. Said that it was getting too darned hard to hoist himself up and besides the required liability insurance payments for his profession were getting kind of high.

He did indeed make it look (relatively) easy...
But I was not gonna try it!

I have someone crank me up with the housetop Lewmar 30ST's. It may be a 30 to 1 ratio in theory, but the person on the handle sez he doesn't believe that!

Always have another helper to take up on a spare safety halyard, and to pass up forgotten tools in the bucket-and-line you have attached to your chair.

Be Safe!

 

[justsomeguy]

Re: Block and Tackle Arrangement for Self-Hoist Mast Climbin

Never hurts to have a back-up.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Re: Block and Tackle Arrangement for Self-Hoist Mast Climbin

Hay Rardi
once the line is tight you don't swing all over the place but you also can't swing all over the place to get around the rigging!!!
I'm hip with your concern about others and putting your life in their hands. I had an X that tried to let me down by unwrapping the winch and putting it on CCW to "crank" me down......lots of things go through you mind in very short order when you see them doing things like that.
Joe brings up a great point no matter what solution you use. Give some consideration to making two pendants with hooks on one end and a foot loop on the other. the hooks attach to the mast head and you stand in the foot loops. Getting all the proportions correct is critical to being comfortable while aloft, halyard end to bellybutton being the most most important. Shorter being better so your center of gravity is right at the halyard block.
Course if you have a wood plank to sit on ($0.00) and make a rope sling ($0.00) for it by drilling a hole in each corner then looming the line through it and adjusting the length so the halyard end is right at your bellybutton........ you have your head above the mast head and comfort too. Course you would have to teach some one to actually use a winch.....

 

[rardiH36]

Everyone:

Great feedback and discussion. After all this is a critical life decision! Sorry all for what my sound like excuses for one idea or the other. Just trying to talk/think it through. But it will be done! What may not at resonate with me at first might later as more insight is gained.

Bill: Yes about your mentioned limitation of ATN Mast Climber. I also have been wondering about how one is able to swing around the mast top a bit to get at things from different angles. For instance (and I made a new thread a couple of weeks ago about it) is that my Profurl swivel head won't come down -- so the jib is stuck. This is what really started my quest at mast ascension. My boat is masthead head sail configured so the swivel head is only about a foot or so below the masthead sheave. (An aside: I've since spoken to people in the know about Profurls and a rigger nearby has several of my model type horizontally tied on the side of his shop. Advice given and looking at the ground level ones, I've probably tensioned the swivel head a bit too high and it is sort of wedged half-on/half off the aluminum extrusion. Probably no harm done. But it can only be freed from up high.) Anyway, ascending the mast with the Mastclimber using the mainsail halyard will put me on the wrong side of the mast. Are my arms long enough to get a tool in place with enough leverage to unwedge/realign the swivel head from/back on the extrusion?

FastOlson: A couple of months ago I did have a professional rigger to my boat to do an informal rig inspection. It had been six years since the standing rigging was replaced by the PO. It was time to have an expert take a hard look at everything to advise if I was reasonably OK for safe sailing for another several years. It was. Watching him self-hoist up with a block and tackle system is what has motivated me to find out more. This guy was not young, quite large, and moved on the ground like his joints hurt a bit. But absolutely no problem getting to the top with his 4:1 system. No safety backup.

Joe: The thing about the ATN Mastclimber (if that is a route that I will take) is that it is already configured to use for the purpose. I have an REI within jogging distance from home and have spent some time on their website. Yes, I can buy from them a couple of ascenders (some good looking Pretzl ones are now on sale for $55) and a harness (as low as $39). But then also carabiners are needed, foot loop straps, and probably modifying the harness into a more comfortable bosun's chair to avoid crimping the blood supply on the legs that I have read about. Then the knowledge to get all the pieces aligned right. Plus then maybe more knowledge/practice than possible from only an REI person's description? Believe me that I already have thought long about going this route. A dock neighbor even offered to loan me his REI equipment that he bought several years ago. But he was not able to feel comfortable with the DIY nature of it so it wasn't a success for him. I just feel that I would need a mountaineering course in rope ascending.

 

[woodster]

I'm interested to make a 3:1 purchase self hoist bosun's chair assembly for mast climbing. (... still in good enough shape to pull down the 60 lbs (or so) to get my 180 lbs up.)

But I haven't been able to find any diagrams or equipment list on the internet that specify the block and tackle arrangements. For example is just one ratchet block needed or are both ratchets? And how is the "hoist" part of the line routed so that it won't run out if accidentally let go. And what method is used to secure the hoist line when the working point is reached?

The only people that I have seen using this type of self hoisting in my area are in the rigging trade -- So I don't feel right asking them how to do it!

Any info to steer me in the right direction will be appreciated. Many thanks.

here is a diagram of a 4 part block and tackle set up http://kickinteractive.com/dc/units/5_0/reevedSystems.html and always make sure when you hook up the system you use bowlines on both ends and not the snap shackles....

regards

woody

 

[rardiH36]

here is a diagram of a 4 part block and tackle set up http://kickinteractive.com/dc/units/5_0/reevedSystems.html and always make sure when you hook up the system you use bowlines on both ends and not the snap shackles....

regards

woody

Woody:

Excellent. Bookmarked into my "Rigging Info" folder.

I also am a fan of bowline knots...since I understand them and have never had one fail since my boy scout tenderfoot days. (Eventually made it to Life Scout until dropping out of Scouting when I finally become aware what girls were.)

Do you have a recommendation/knowledge for securing the "bitter end" (hoist) part of the line? It's been mentioned just let it run free and tie it off when ready.

rardi

 

[woodster]

Woody:

Excellent. Bookmarked into my "Rigging Info" folder.

I also am a fan of bowline knots...since I understand them and have never had one fail since my boy scout tenderfoot days. (Eventually made it to Life Scout until dropping out of Scouting when I finally become aware what girls were.)

Do you have a recommendation/knowledge for securing the "bitter end" (hoist) part of the line? It's been mentioned just let it run free and tie it off when ready.

rardi

attach the start of the reeving to the Becket on the top block with a Becket hitch...then reeve the line down the the bottom block on the first sheave...then back over the to next sheave at the top block and back down the the next sheave on the bottom block and back up to the top block again and down ...that will be the bitter end in this arrangement....you will never secure the bitter end as it is the one you will be pulling on as you go up or letting out as you go down..ei the pull line if you will ...if you get tired on the way up just grab all the parts including the bitter end in your hand and hold them snug that will be your break going up or down....one more thing when you reeve this set up you will find it easier to let the block hang 90 degrees to each other and wont be as confusing in the reveing....and make sure you have a good set of gloves on your hands...them freak-en rope burns are painful.......

regards

woody

 

[woodster]

Woody:

Excellent. Bookmarked into my "Rigging Info" folder.

I also am a fan of bowline knots...since I understand them and have never had one fail since my boy scout tenderfoot days. (Eventually made it to Life Scout until dropping out of Scouting when I finally become aware what girls were.)

the line will fail before the bowline will if tied correctly

Do you have a recommendation/knowledge for securing the "bitter end" (hoist) part of the line? It's been mentioned just let it run free and tie it off when ready.

always let the pull line be free you can have some one on the deck tail it for you in order to keep it untangled ...but you will find that you need to be the one in charge of the pull line and that will give you confidence in your self in time and above all stay focused on what you are doing and don't let this activity intimidate you..... I know at first it may but as you do it more and more you will be just fine.....and above all don't get complacent

rardi

regards

woody

 

[Joe]

Everyone:

.

Joe: The thing about the ATN Mastclimber (if that is a route that I will take) is that it is already configured to use for the purpose. I have an REI within jogging distance from home and have spent some time on their website. Yes, I can buy from them a couple of ascenders (some good looking Pretzl ones are now on sale for $55) and a harness (as low as $39). But then also carabiners are needed, foot loop straps, and probably modifying the harness into a more comfortable bosun's chair to avoid crimping the blood supply on the legs that I have read about. Then the knowledge to get all the pieces aligned right. Plus then maybe more knowledge/practice than possible from only an REI person's description? Believe me that I already have thought long about going this route. A dock neighbor even offered to loan me his REI equipment that he bought several years ago. But he was not able to feel comfortable with the DIY nature of it so it wasn't a success for him. I just feel that I would need a mountaineering course in rope ascending.

You attach the bosun's chair to the top ascender... with one carabiner, and a couple of webbing foot loops to the bottom.... REI will make the foot loops for you.... You don't need a harness... you have the bosun's chair. You'll still have to purchase the static line, I don't think that's included with the Topclimber rig...... but........ whatever you do.... good luck.