I noticed Ed's pictures in the photo forum, and began to wonder what experience the rest of you have had with your bilges. Are they constantly wet, or dry, and what do you think is appropriate? Mine was originally dry 99 per cent of the time, until I began having a problem with the packing gland dripping constantly. I am currently on the hard and have had the packing gland repacked, and hope that will fix the wetness problem. I understand the bilge should get some water when under power, but the constant wetness is a problem. I am a little bit suspicious that I have a fresh water system leak somewhewre that remains to be dealt with. Meanwhile, I have discovered a great tool for the deep bilges in a 37: it is a a toy water canon, about three feet long. It makes a great tool for sucking the water out of the bottom of the bilge where the pump does not reach. Any suggestions? Thanks Sanders s/v Good News
- Status
Bilges Should be Dry Enough .................
......... to store the toilet paper in (which we do). The old wive's tale of the dripping stuffing box is now history with modern teflon impregnated packing. There is no need for cooling leakage with the relatively low surface speed of most prop shafts. Ours seems to need re-packing every two to three years to keep it drip free. Best regards, s/v Island Hunter
......... to store the toilet paper in (which we do). The old wive's tale of the dripping stuffing box is now history with modern teflon impregnated packing. There is no need for cooling leakage with the relatively low surface speed of most prop shafts. Ours seems to need re-packing every two to three years to keep it drip free. Best regards, s/v Island Hunter
My H36 is dry at rest...little wet under power...
I may find 1/2" of water after hours of power. I take a sponge to dry it out..but I like your water cannon solution better. At one time I had the gland tight enough that I had no water in the bilge and like the previous post mentioned the shaft never got hot. I have been a little lazy the last 2 years and I have not readjusted the gland. abe
I may find 1/2" of water after hours of power. I take a sponge to dry it out..but I like your water cannon solution better. At one time I had the gland tight enough that I had no water in the bilge and like the previous post mentioned the shaft never got hot. I have been a little lazy the last 2 years and I have not readjusted the gland. abe
Dry Bilge
My bilge is dry for the most part with my PSS, but when checking the speed transducer and also when using AC. I do try and keep it dry with a small wet dry vac but the PSS really works great and had it installed when boat was being commissioned. I also keep Clorox tablets in the bilge and AC pan so it does not get smelly or grungy. Nick
My bilge is dry for the most part with my PSS, but when checking the speed transducer and also when using AC. I do try and keep it dry with a small wet dry vac but the PSS really works great and had it installed when boat was being commissioned. I also keep Clorox tablets in the bilge and AC pan so it does not get smelly or grungy. Nick
Wet Bilges...after rain!
My bilge always has a couple of gals of rainwater after heavy rains. As far as I can tell, it comes in through the mast sheaves, openings, etc. In between rains, there is no accumulation. I pump it down to the last inch with the manual pump and don't worry about what is left. Fiberglass fishing boats around here go for years with 'wet' bilges and suffer no damage. However, when the boat is hauled for the winter, it is important to have a garboard plug to open and let the water drain to prevent ice in the bilge.
My bilge always has a couple of gals of rainwater after heavy rains. As far as I can tell, it comes in through the mast sheaves, openings, etc. In between rains, there is no accumulation. I pump it down to the last inch with the manual pump and don't worry about what is left. Fiberglass fishing boats around here go for years with 'wet' bilges and suffer no damage. However, when the boat is hauled for the winter, it is important to have a garboard plug to open and let the water drain to prevent ice in the bilge.
My Cherubini 36 Bilge
Just last week I put my 1980 Cherubini 36 in the water for the first time since I bought it this past June. The packing box was restuffed, but as is normal (from what I read) a little bit of water is getting through which eventually builds up in the bilge. Also I know that this boat will have rain water leakage. (Eventually I hope to track down and fix the worst causes.) From the water stain mark in the bilge, the normal level that the past owner(s) experienced was about three inches in the aft part and one inch in the forward part. I didn't like the idea of this much water, particularly in the forward part since the steel post that supports the mast between the deck and the keel was constantly in the wet. I've read that eventually the post bottom rusts and the mast and deck begin to collapse downward. I want to delay the day when I will have to deal with this issue. Two inches is the level that the previous owners' bilge pump's float switch kicks in. The switch is located in the middle of the fore/aft bilge distance. For a solution, I had read in Don Casey's "Sailboat Maintenence Manual" about a very small capacity automatic Rule bilge pump that turns itself on for a few seconds every couple of minutes. It has a IC chip in it. If the chip senses current drain (i.e. the pump is pushing water), it keeps going. There is no float switch. If the "no water present" current draw is sensed, pump shuts off within a few seconds. Since the pump is small, the claim is that it draws insignificant current from the battery if no water is detected when it does its "water present?" check. This pump is intended only to deal with "trickle" leaks into the boat. The normal bilge pump system must be retained, whose float switch will rise and activate if the water ingress rate overwhelms the small pump's capacity. Since the bilge on my 1980 36 is deeper towards the aft than forward, I mounted the automatic rule pump as far aft in the bilge as I could. I also installed a separate 3/4" bilge hose for the small pump. Because the pump doesn't rely on a float switch to activate, it sucks out water right to the bilge's sole. Although when it shuts off, the small amount of water in the hose drains back down. The result looks to be good ... in the berth, only 1/2" of water is in the far aft section of the bilge. The forward three quarters of the bilge length stays dry totally. The Rule pump (12v 500 gph) is available at West Marine, and I did see it on-line at various marine sights. (I bought mine at West Marine since the price discount on line wasn't that much .... and because a West Marine $10 rewards program coupon had just come in the mail). The pump is quiet and with the bilge cover in place, it's noise is insignificant. That's my experience.
Just last week I put my 1980 Cherubini 36 in the water for the first time since I bought it this past June. The packing box was restuffed, but as is normal (from what I read) a little bit of water is getting through which eventually builds up in the bilge. Also I know that this boat will have rain water leakage. (Eventually I hope to track down and fix the worst causes.) From the water stain mark in the bilge, the normal level that the past owner(s) experienced was about three inches in the aft part and one inch in the forward part. I didn't like the idea of this much water, particularly in the forward part since the steel post that supports the mast between the deck and the keel was constantly in the wet. I've read that eventually the post bottom rusts and the mast and deck begin to collapse downward. I want to delay the day when I will have to deal with this issue. Two inches is the level that the previous owners' bilge pump's float switch kicks in. The switch is located in the middle of the fore/aft bilge distance. For a solution, I had read in Don Casey's "Sailboat Maintenence Manual" about a very small capacity automatic Rule bilge pump that turns itself on for a few seconds every couple of minutes. It has a IC chip in it. If the chip senses current drain (i.e. the pump is pushing water), it keeps going. There is no float switch. If the "no water present" current draw is sensed, pump shuts off within a few seconds. Since the pump is small, the claim is that it draws insignificant current from the battery if no water is detected when it does its "water present?" check. This pump is intended only to deal with "trickle" leaks into the boat. The normal bilge pump system must be retained, whose float switch will rise and activate if the water ingress rate overwhelms the small pump's capacity. Since the bilge on my 1980 36 is deeper towards the aft than forward, I mounted the automatic rule pump as far aft in the bilge as I could. I also installed a separate 3/4" bilge hose for the small pump. Because the pump doesn't rely on a float switch to activate, it sucks out water right to the bilge's sole. Although when it shuts off, the small amount of water in the hose drains back down. The result looks to be good ... in the berth, only 1/2" of water is in the far aft section of the bilge. The forward three quarters of the bilge length stays dry totally. The Rule pump (12v 500 gph) is available at West Marine, and I did see it on-line at various marine sights. (I bought mine at West Marine since the price discount on line wasn't that much .... and because a West Marine $10 rewards program coupon had just come in the mail). The pump is quiet and with the bilge cover in place, it's noise is insignificant. That's my experience.
A little water is "normal"
At least for us on DreamBoat. It's not enough that I get nervous, and our bilge pump cycles on every 5 or 6 hours. I believe we have a small leak in the fresh water tank that I have not been able to locate yet. The bilge pump activity increases after the fresh water tank is filled and pressurized. Again, it's not enough to get nervous about, but we certainly couldn't store toilet paper in the bilge.
At least for us on DreamBoat. It's not enough that I get nervous, and our bilge pump cycles on every 5 or 6 hours. I believe we have a small leak in the fresh water tank that I have not been able to locate yet. The bilge pump activity increases after the fresh water tank is filled and pressurized. Again, it's not enough to get nervous about, but we certainly couldn't store toilet paper in the bilge.
Dry bilge
Couple of questions and a comment. Ralph, everything I have read says that on a conventional shaft log, the stuffing box SHOULD drip. It uses the water for lubrication (cooling). Have you felt yours underway? Is it warm with no drips? ALSO, I always have an inch or so in my bilge (95 336) from my stuffing box. That is enough to cover the keel bolts. What is the opinion about keel bolts continously submerged, NOT partially by seawater? My take is the continual recycle effect from the stuffing box, keeps any marine critters from dying cause they go overboard. That saves Peggie from having to answer the "my bilge stinks" question AGAIN. Cheers
Couple of questions and a comment. Ralph, everything I have read says that on a conventional shaft log, the stuffing box SHOULD drip. It uses the water for lubrication (cooling). Have you felt yours underway? Is it warm with no drips? ALSO, I always have an inch or so in my bilge (95 336) from my stuffing box. That is enough to cover the keel bolts. What is the opinion about keel bolts continously submerged, NOT partially by seawater? My take is the continual recycle effect from the stuffing box, keeps any marine critters from dying cause they go overboard. That saves Peggie from having to answer the "my bilge stinks" question AGAIN. Cheers
Where does the water come from?
I'll list a few possibilities that come to mind maybe others can complete the list; 1) Rain waters from leaks or open hatches. 2) fresh water from leaks in tank or plumbing. 3) fresh water from melted ice in ice coolers. 4) gray water from showers and sinks 5) salt water from packing gland drips 6) salt water from leaks from transducers 7) salt water spilled when cleaning strainers 8) wet stuff brought inside the cabin. Could think of a lot of things to store in the bilge and toilet paper is just not one of them. I'm not fond of using wet toilet paper. Don't have much in common with folks that don't put ice in their ice coolers and don't take showers aboard. I will take care of leaks promptly but don't mind a packing gland drip. I keep a dehumidifier aboard to take care of dampness and prevent mildew and musty odors but I'll be darned if I'm going to get down on my hands and knees to towel dry the bilge.
I'll list a few possibilities that come to mind maybe others can complete the list; 1) Rain waters from leaks or open hatches. 2) fresh water from leaks in tank or plumbing. 3) fresh water from melted ice in ice coolers. 4) gray water from showers and sinks 5) salt water from packing gland drips 6) salt water from leaks from transducers 7) salt water spilled when cleaning strainers 8) wet stuff brought inside the cabin. Could think of a lot of things to store in the bilge and toilet paper is just not one of them. I'm not fond of using wet toilet paper. Don't have much in common with folks that don't put ice in their ice coolers and don't take showers aboard. I will take care of leaks promptly but don't mind a packing gland drip. I keep a dehumidifier aboard to take care of dampness and prevent mildew and musty odors but I'll be darned if I'm going to get down on my hands and knees to towel dry the bilge.
Bilge issues on my H34
I do not have a dry bilge and I want to tackle this problem over the winter. I usually have about 1-3 inches of water in the bilge. The biggest problem I have is head height and hose length. I have 12 ft of hose that needs to be elevated about 6 ft. I have a 1-1/8 inch bilge hose. So when the bilge turns off, I have about 144 cubic inches of water in the hose - more than a half gallon! So, a check valve is used to prevent backflow. Without the check valve, the bilge would cycle from all the return water back to the bilge. Anyone who has a check valve on the bilge hose should be nervous - and I am. So, two pumps would be best. One small pump with small diameter hose(no check valve) to keep the bilge dry as possible. The other emergency pump should be as big as possible for the catastrophic events(no check valve). This is what I will try to do over the winter. Eliminate the check valve on the bilge by going with two pumps. Any suggestions are welcome.
I do not have a dry bilge and I want to tackle this problem over the winter. I usually have about 1-3 inches of water in the bilge. The biggest problem I have is head height and hose length. I have 12 ft of hose that needs to be elevated about 6 ft. I have a 1-1/8 inch bilge hose. So when the bilge turns off, I have about 144 cubic inches of water in the hose - more than a half gallon! So, a check valve is used to prevent backflow. Without the check valve, the bilge would cycle from all the return water back to the bilge. Anyone who has a check valve on the bilge hose should be nervous - and I am. So, two pumps would be best. One small pump with small diameter hose(no check valve) to keep the bilge dry as possible. The other emergency pump should be as big as possible for the catastrophic events(no check valve). This is what I will try to do over the winter. Eliminate the check valve on the bilge by going with two pumps. Any suggestions are welcome.
Typical H37C...
Sanders, My 1979 H37C bilge will be wet after a good rain, water comes down the mast. I can actually see the water path from the mast back to the stern, since small puddles are left at each wall separation from the mast back, as the water drains through each hole. I normally pump out the standing water that the bilge pump can't get to, with a hand pump every few weeks, depending on rain fall conditions, to limit any smell. This year, we went for 5 weeks without any rain and had a dry bilge until the first soaking storm.
Sanders, My 1979 H37C bilge will be wet after a good rain, water comes down the mast. I can actually see the water path from the mast back to the stern, since small puddles are left at each wall separation from the mast back, as the water drains through each hole. I normally pump out the standing water that the bilge pump can't get to, with a hand pump every few weeks, depending on rain fall conditions, to limit any smell. This year, we went for 5 weeks without any rain and had a dry bilge until the first soaking storm.
H37C bilge.
Ralph is correct. With the newer Teflon packing your shaft stuffing box does not need to drip. Like some of you I wait too long to retighten and will get a little water from there. And if you followed an earlier post I am now getting some water from the rudderpost seal area. This was never below the waterline until I loaded up for the trip south. And then there is Benny's list. The keel-stepped mast is the main conduit for water on the H37C. It helps some to seal the track just above the boom. Still there are a lot of holes for water to enter when it rains. To keep the bilge water at a minimum I wired a small pump with about 18 inches of hose that leads to the shower sump. The smaller pump has an internal float valve that comes on much sooner than the 2000gph Rule, probably around 1/2 inch. Just like the big Rule and the new smaller pump the sump pump needs to be wired through a fuse to a constant 12v source. The original wiring of that sump pump requires that the house waterpump be turned on. I never leave any switches "on" when I leave the boat.
Ralph is correct. With the newer Teflon packing your shaft stuffing box does not need to drip. Like some of you I wait too long to retighten and will get a little water from there. And if you followed an earlier post I am now getting some water from the rudderpost seal area. This was never below the waterline until I loaded up for the trip south. And then there is Benny's list. The keel-stepped mast is the main conduit for water on the H37C. It helps some to seal the track just above the boom. Still there are a lot of holes for water to enter when it rains. To keep the bilge water at a minimum I wired a small pump with about 18 inches of hose that leads to the shower sump. The smaller pump has an internal float valve that comes on much sooner than the 2000gph Rule, probably around 1/2 inch. Just like the big Rule and the new smaller pump the sump pump needs to be wired through a fuse to a constant 12v source. The original wiring of that sump pump requires that the house waterpump be turned on. I never leave any switches "on" when I leave the boat.
Sometimes wet/sometimes dry
My old h27 also has a shallow bildge. It basically will stay dry all summer unless there are really heavy rains, but once the temp gets below approx. 60 degrees I start getting water in it. Not much, I seem to average less that 16 ounces a week, depending on rainfall. I the water level in my bildge has never gotten anywhere near high enough for the pump to kick on except when my full water tank sprung a leak. Come to think of it, the water never gets high enough to manually run the pump, there is not enough to make it up the hose, it all drains back. Manny
My old h27 also has a shallow bildge. It basically will stay dry all summer unless there are really heavy rains, but once the temp gets below approx. 60 degrees I start getting water in it. Not much, I seem to average less that 16 ounces a week, depending on rainfall. I the water level in my bildge has never gotten anywhere near high enough for the pump to kick on except when my full water tank sprung a leak. Come to think of it, the water never gets high enough to manually run the pump, there is not enough to make it up the hose, it all drains back. Manny
Bilge update
Thanks for the good discussion! I just got back from the yard and the haulout, where I had the packing gland repacked. I talked to the yard manager and he showed me the material (a teflon product) which he said is much better than the old stuff. He also said that when the shaft is turning, I should have about one drip per six seconds, and warned me that no drip with the teflon packing material can harden the material and lessen its effectiveness and life. It should not drip at all when not turning. So, that's my plan. Meanwhile, for your amusement, I ended up adjusting the nuts on the packing gland myself for the first time after we got back from the yard (about two hours of motoring away from my dock). What an interesting experience that is, wedging in over the top of the warm engine (covered with a life vest), hanging upside down, and making minute adjustments to get the drip juuuuust right! Actually, I stopped the water that was pouring in, and left myself a note and the wrenches to remind me to finish the job next week. My ribs are sore, but I did learn something: it's a job for a younger skinnier person. Think I'll invite my son-in-law next time. Fair winds, Sanders
Thanks for the good discussion! I just got back from the yard and the haulout, where I had the packing gland repacked. I talked to the yard manager and he showed me the material (a teflon product) which he said is much better than the old stuff. He also said that when the shaft is turning, I should have about one drip per six seconds, and warned me that no drip with the teflon packing material can harden the material and lessen its effectiveness and life. It should not drip at all when not turning. So, that's my plan. Meanwhile, for your amusement, I ended up adjusting the nuts on the packing gland myself for the first time after we got back from the yard (about two hours of motoring away from my dock). What an interesting experience that is, wedging in over the top of the warm engine (covered with a life vest), hanging upside down, and making minute adjustments to get the drip juuuuust right! Actually, I stopped the water that was pouring in, and left myself a note and the wrenches to remind me to finish the job next week. My ribs are sore, but I did learn something: it's a job for a younger skinnier person. Think I'll invite my son-in-law next time. Fair winds, Sanders
I am anti drip
I have about 300 hours on my engine since repacking in 2002 and it is adjusted for no drippinng at all. I had to make an adjustment at about 250 hours to tighten it a little. The problem with dripping is that it does not just drip, it flings, sprays and leaves a salt deposit on the shaft and shaft log. I would urge anyone to try and be dripless.
I have about 300 hours on my engine since repacking in 2002 and it is adjusted for no drippinng at all. I had to make an adjustment at about 250 hours to tighten it a little. The problem with dripping is that it does not just drip, it flings, sprays and leaves a salt deposit on the shaft and shaft log. I would urge anyone to try and be dripless.
- Status