Well, I finally did some research on an issue with smell coming from under my V-berth. I had already changed all the hoses. I read the forum posts on the topic, got a drill and started at it. First I drilled a 1/4 inch hole about 2 inches down from the top on the foreward surface, as seen in one of the pictures that were posted. That area also sounded out as being hollow. I found the FG to be about 3/16 inch thick in this area. From there I used a wire to probe the area behind and found a space about 1/4 inch deep. I was able to probe down a distance that would put the bottom of the cavity below the floor of the bilge. So then I drilled another hole about 2 inches from the floor of the bilge. This area sounds out to be pretty solid but my probing clearly indicated it had a hollow behind it. The FG was close to 1/2in thick in this area but I did find at least a 1/3in space behind it. While doing all this drilling a lot of really bad smelling water came out of the holes. So after the water stopped running I used a vacuum line hose (car stuff) and an anti-freeze mix tester to suck out the remaining fluid. Then I rinsed the bilge out by running mixes of detergent and bleach and water through the access in the V-berth. I now have the area dry. I have purchased a fuel-line primer bulb to attach to the hose so I can suck the area dry when necessary. I am going to enlarge the hole to 5/8 and use a transom drain plug to plug it. The reason I wish to do that is that I am not getting any water in that space on a normal basis. I am pretty sure that most of the water in there was from when I washed out the V-berth space after the hose replacement. I would love to just remove the bottom of the bilge but I an not daring enough to attack that. I looks like I will be able to keep the area dry using the primer bulb. There was still some water in the area right under the engine pan that I sucked out with the same primer bulb so there are still some areas that do not drain totally but I think I have gotten the majority of the water out and hope there rest will evaporate. Summer is just arriving here and when it gets out of the 50s we I should be able to tell if this improves the problem. Thanks to all who posted here on this topic. This forum gave me the necessary information to feel comfortable drilling the first hole.
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One of the worst problems with this great boat
Thanks for posting your information here. I just replaced my sanitation hoses this weekend in an effort to get rid of the mystery smells associated with this boat. I'll start tackling additional projects once my wounds from that bear of a job are finally healed. I have holes in my bilge already but your idea of a fuel primer bulb for getting to the very bottom is a good one. I'd be curious to know if anyone has removed the false bilge entirely on this boat. I'm pretty sure I've seen photos of a project like this on a 34, but nothing for a 31. I now need to switch to a dripless packing gland to keep the bilge dry at all times.
Thanks for posting your information here. I just replaced my sanitation hoses this weekend in an effort to get rid of the mystery smells associated with this boat. I'll start tackling additional projects once my wounds from that bear of a job are finally healed. I have holes in my bilge already but your idea of a fuel primer bulb for getting to the very bottom is a good one. I'd be curious to know if anyone has removed the false bilge entirely on this boat. I'm pretty sure I've seen photos of a project like this on a 34, but nothing for a 31. I now need to switch to a dripless packing gland to keep the bilge dry at all times.
Trapped water is one of the worst odor culprits
And can be the hardest to find, too. I can't count the number of calls/emails I've had from people who've replaced their whole sanitation systems--head, hoses, and tank too--trying to get rid of what they thought was "head" odor, but in fact was caused by a stagnant cesspool somewhere below the cabin sole. Congratulations for finding it on your boat! Hopefully, it's the only place where stagnant water has gotten trapped. Without being able to see where exactly in your boat you're talking about, I'm flying blind...Can you get to that area to create some limber holes to allow it drain? If not, can you install a hatch in the cabin sole to provide access to that area? 'Cuz while some of the water may have gotten in there when you washed out after replacing hoses, some water would have to have been in there for more than just a few months to stagnate enough to stink. You may not be taking on any water, but humidity can add some...and it only takes a little to stink if it's allowed to collect and stink long enough. Access to the area--and any others where moisture can collect too--to sponge it out would really be helpful.
And can be the hardest to find, too. I can't count the number of calls/emails I've had from people who've replaced their whole sanitation systems--head, hoses, and tank too--trying to get rid of what they thought was "head" odor, but in fact was caused by a stagnant cesspool somewhere below the cabin sole. Congratulations for finding it on your boat! Hopefully, it's the only place where stagnant water has gotten trapped. Without being able to see where exactly in your boat you're talking about, I'm flying blind...Can you get to that area to create some limber holes to allow it drain? If not, can you install a hatch in the cabin sole to provide access to that area? 'Cuz while some of the water may have gotten in there when you washed out after replacing hoses, some water would have to have been in there for more than just a few months to stagnate enough to stink. You may not be taking on any water, but humidity can add some...and it only takes a little to stink if it's allowed to collect and stink long enough. Access to the area--and any others where moisture can collect too--to sponge it out would really be helpful.
The water was quite old
The water was there from about 3 years ago when I change the hoses or from the previous owner. I am a patient person and just finally decided I was tired of the smell. Actually my children are getting older and I need one of them to take up residence in the V-berth. Up until now we have avoided the V-berth except on nights when all the hatches were open and the wind was blowing. I suspect I will have to find some more pockets and try to produce some paths for the water to drain. We do not allow our ice box to drain and instead we sponge it out. The stuffing box drips in an area the flows onto the pan under the engine. That is another issue altogether. I keep an oil absorbant tube under there so that the water that makes it to the lowest point can be spunged out without being laced with oil. I have considered glassing in some ridges to direct that water to the bilge instead of onto the pan. So our bilge is totally dry except when I introduce water to the interior on purpose or by accident. Other than this topic we love the boat. It is a great boat for our in-land lake (cabin) type of use. Maybe some day I'll get daring and cut the bottom out of that bilge. For now I am moving on to replacing he water heater (sulfer smell, only from hot water) and a rail mounted bimini. Again thanks for the help.
The water was there from about 3 years ago when I change the hoses or from the previous owner. I am a patient person and just finally decided I was tired of the smell. Actually my children are getting older and I need one of them to take up residence in the V-berth. Up until now we have avoided the V-berth except on nights when all the hatches were open and the wind was blowing. I suspect I will have to find some more pockets and try to produce some paths for the water to drain. We do not allow our ice box to drain and instead we sponge it out. The stuffing box drips in an area the flows onto the pan under the engine. That is another issue altogether. I keep an oil absorbant tube under there so that the water that makes it to the lowest point can be spunged out without being laced with oil. I have considered glassing in some ridges to direct that water to the bilge instead of onto the pan. So our bilge is totally dry except when I introduce water to the interior on purpose or by accident. Other than this topic we love the boat. It is a great boat for our in-land lake (cabin) type of use. Maybe some day I'll get daring and cut the bottom out of that bilge. For now I am moving on to replacing he water heater (sulfer smell, only from hot water) and a rail mounted bimini. Again thanks for the help.
May not be necessary to replace the water heater
If it's a Raritan or other make that has a glass lined tank, there's a replaceable anode in it...the sulphur smell from only the hot water side is the indicator that it's worn out. It's a "rod" attached to the outlet fitting, and only about 10 minute job (unless you have a problem to getting to the fitting). You only have to remove the outlet hose, remove the fitting, wrap the threads on the new one with several layers of teflon tape...thread it back in tight, and replace the hose. The part is only about $25-30. Otoh, if the water heater is one of the cheaper models that has an inner tank made of anodized aluminum, you will have to replace the whole thing to get rid of the sulphur smell...'cuz they don't have replaceable anodes...tank itself is the anode, and the anodizing has been eaten off. No way to get to the to have it re-anodized or replace it. As with most things, it often costs a lot less in the long run to spend a bit more up front.
If it's a Raritan or other make that has a glass lined tank, there's a replaceable anode in it...the sulphur smell from only the hot water side is the indicator that it's worn out. It's a "rod" attached to the outlet fitting, and only about 10 minute job (unless you have a problem to getting to the fitting). You only have to remove the outlet hose, remove the fitting, wrap the threads on the new one with several layers of teflon tape...thread it back in tight, and replace the hose. The part is only about $25-30. Otoh, if the water heater is one of the cheaper models that has an inner tank made of anodized aluminum, you will have to replace the whole thing to get rid of the sulphur smell...'cuz they don't have replaceable anodes...tank itself is the anode, and the anodizing has been eaten off. No way to get to the to have it re-anodized or replace it. As with most things, it often costs a lot less in the long run to spend a bit more up front.
Peggie, any idea why they even bother to install
a anode in a glass lined tank? The fittings maybe?
a anode in a glass lined tank? The fittings maybe?
Water Heater Anodes
Anodes are included in the water heater of glass-lined steel tanks to protect the inside of the tank against corrosion from acids in the water, stray electrical currents, etc. Glass lined tanks, when the water heater is being built, are heated up red hot. Then glass powder is sprayed inside the tank and it adheres upon contact. However, it doesn't cover every single crack and crevice inside the tank - it should, but in actual practice, it doesn't. The purpose of the anode is to protect those spots inside the tank that have not been glass-covered from rusting away prematurely. The anode is eaten away, rather than the tank being eaten away. Kind of a backup to the glass lining. The anode is a magnesium rod, about 3/4" in diameter that is attached to the inside of the hot water "out" nipple, via a plastic coupling. It is electrically isolated from the fittings and from the tank. It extends all the way across the inside of the tank, stopping just short of the other side. There is an iron rod in the center of the magnesium that supports it, the iron being stronger than the magnesium. As the magnesium is eaten away and the iron rod exposed, there's a chemical reaction between the water, the iron and the magnesium that causes the "rotten egg" smell. Replacing the anode and flushing out the tank will usually make the foul smell go away. The same thing is done in electric water heaters used for residential application, but the anode extends down into the tank from the top. The actual tank in residential applications usually develops a leak well before the anode is eaten away, requiring replacement. You'll note that it's not unusual for a water heater on a boat to last 25+ years - try and find a household water heater that'll last that long...
Anodes are included in the water heater of glass-lined steel tanks to protect the inside of the tank against corrosion from acids in the water, stray electrical currents, etc. Glass lined tanks, when the water heater is being built, are heated up red hot. Then glass powder is sprayed inside the tank and it adheres upon contact. However, it doesn't cover every single crack and crevice inside the tank - it should, but in actual practice, it doesn't. The purpose of the anode is to protect those spots inside the tank that have not been glass-covered from rusting away prematurely. The anode is eaten away, rather than the tank being eaten away. Kind of a backup to the glass lining. The anode is a magnesium rod, about 3/4" in diameter that is attached to the inside of the hot water "out" nipple, via a plastic coupling. It is electrically isolated from the fittings and from the tank. It extends all the way across the inside of the tank, stopping just short of the other side. There is an iron rod in the center of the magnesium that supports it, the iron being stronger than the magnesium. As the magnesium is eaten away and the iron rod exposed, there's a chemical reaction between the water, the iron and the magnesium that causes the "rotten egg" smell. Replacing the anode and flushing out the tank will usually make the foul smell go away. The same thing is done in electric water heaters used for residential application, but the anode extends down into the tank from the top. The actual tank in residential applications usually develops a leak well before the anode is eaten away, requiring replacement. You'll note that it's not unusual for a water heater on a boat to last 25+ years - try and find a household water heater that'll last that long...
Thanks for all of the good and correct info Vick
Every thing you want/need to know about your water heater. I just stepped in from the garage after reading my water heater manual. You're spot on. My home heater is a 50gal propane, power vented, glass lined unit made by A.O. Smith. The manual fully agrees with your post. The anode in in the top. I still can't see it. (clutter) When we spec'd the house with my builder, he said the tank was good for a lifetime. The warranty is 5 years. Anyway, for $900.00, it should last awhile. My builder/friend, is a sailor. He and his wife followed our wake and are now in the Caribbean. That's how I know he wouldn't lie.
Thanks again for the post.
Every thing you want/need to know about your water heater. I just stepped in from the garage after reading my water heater manual. You're spot on. My home heater is a 50gal propane, power vented, glass lined unit made by A.O. Smith. The manual fully agrees with your post. The anode in in the top. I still can't see it. (clutter) When we spec'd the house with my builder, he said the tank was good for a lifetime. The warranty is 5 years. Anyway, for $900.00, it should last awhile. My builder/friend, is a sailor. He and his wife followed our wake and are now in the Caribbean. That's how I know he wouldn't lie.
Thanks again for the post.Thanks, Vic...
I knew you'd have the answer. Btw, Fred...Vic is the tech services manager for Raritan. There isn't anything he doesn't know about everything they make...which is why I emailed him last night to ask him to answer your question.
I knew you'd have the answer. Btw, Fred...Vic is the tech services manager for Raritan. There isn't anything he doesn't know about everything they make...which is why I emailed him last night to ask him to answer your question.
Thanks for all the info and discussion.
Our heater is a Seaward 6 gal. From what I remember when I put a bypass on it and srewed in the check valve that prevents water from entering that hot output, the check valve screwed into a fitting that looked like it was welded to the tank. If I am not correct please let me know. Seems like the suggestion is to switch to a tank like Raratin. I may consider that option. We do not use hot water all that much but it seems a waste to have the feature and not be able to use it. Although I lurk more than post this list has saved me many hours of wasted labor and prevented many bad decisions. Thanks to you all. BTW. Had a rousing sail in 10-20 knots and 53 degrees. As usual on our lake, close reach down and close reach back (funny how that works). Even rounded up once while trying to steer facing aft in order to stay behind the dodger. I'll have to dig out the autohelm we have never used and see if it works.
Our heater is a Seaward 6 gal. From what I remember when I put a bypass on it and srewed in the check valve that prevents water from entering that hot output, the check valve screwed into a fitting that looked like it was welded to the tank. If I am not correct please let me know. Seems like the suggestion is to switch to a tank like Raratin. I may consider that option. We do not use hot water all that much but it seems a waste to have the feature and not be able to use it. Although I lurk more than post this list has saved me many hours of wasted labor and prevented many bad decisions. Thanks to you all. BTW. Had a rousing sail in 10-20 knots and 53 degrees. As usual on our lake, close reach down and close reach back (funny how that works). Even rounded up once while trying to steer facing aft in order to stay behind the dodger. I'll have to dig out the autohelm we have never used and see if it works.
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