I have a Hunter 34 with which I am happy EXCEPT for the ever present, ever pungent "bilge" smell. I always seem to have a little water in the bulge, below which my float switch can detect, but I otherwise keep the interior of the boat spotlessly clean (well, my girlfriend does and I help her). The boat smell is ever present and it gets into any clothing we leave on board for over a day or two. The boat cushions have the smell. What have you tried that works ? I read about a product called a Quantum cabin air cleaner ($400.00 +-). Nomar
bilge ("boat") smell - elimination thereof
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bilge ("boat") smell
This is always a popular subject with Hunter owners. There are areas under your sole where water collects that does not easily flow into the bilge. If you look in the archives you will find much discussion on this subject for both H31 and H34. People have cut holes to drain the stinky water and have cut out false bilges on the extreme. I just recently made up a mixture of bleach and Pine sol and water which I poured through the cooler, exhaust hole in the bilge under the engine and some people pour it near the v-berth (there's a door where you access the tank). After the flood (about 2 gallons of this mix and hot water) I took the boat out sailing. The heeling splahes the mixture around and once I docked I sucked out the water with a shop vac with a plastic holes attached (1/4" I think). Most people seem to do this once or twice a year or as needed. I had ice in the cooler which caused me to get the water and smell in my H31. Deodorizers just mask the smell. You might also consider checking you head hoses also. But the smell you described seems to be a bilge issue. Good luck.
This is always a popular subject with Hunter owners. There are areas under your sole where water collects that does not easily flow into the bilge. If you look in the archives you will find much discussion on this subject for both H31 and H34. People have cut holes to drain the stinky water and have cut out false bilges on the extreme. I just recently made up a mixture of bleach and Pine sol and water which I poured through the cooler, exhaust hole in the bilge under the engine and some people pour it near the v-berth (there's a door where you access the tank). After the flood (about 2 gallons of this mix and hot water) I took the boat out sailing. The heeling splahes the mixture around and once I docked I sucked out the water with a shop vac with a plastic holes attached (1/4" I think). Most people seem to do this once or twice a year or as needed. I had ice in the cooler which caused me to get the water and smell in my H31. Deodorizers just mask the smell. You might also consider checking you head hoses also. But the smell you described seems to be a bilge issue. Good luck.
Bilge Odor
I had the same problem with my 34 when it arrived two years ago. Last year I pulled the salon table base up and sure enough- you could see water there. I carefully drilled extra drain holes in the side of the bilge and sprayed some Javex in the table base hole then got as much of the water out with a wet dry vac The process for and reasons for the extra holes is explained in the archives Made a HUGE difference.
I had the same problem with my 34 when it arrived two years ago. Last year I pulled the salon table base up and sure enough- you could see water there. I carefully drilled extra drain holes in the side of the bilge and sprayed some Javex in the table base hole then got as much of the water out with a wet dry vac The process for and reasons for the extra holes is explained in the archives Made a HUGE difference.
Un-educated opinion
Just yesterday I was looking at a friend's H34 with the same problem. His boat is on the hard and he had just drilled a hole in the hull above the keel and drained out alot of black water. He had a small insert that he'll glass in later. The water stank like sewage and he said it was held between the hull and liner, inaccessable from the inside. His boat had smelled bad for years and when I climbed aboard it now seemed fine. I don't know if this is a common Hunter issue and hopefully someone will have an easier way to remove the stagnant water than drilling through the hull.
Just yesterday I was looking at a friend's H34 with the same problem. His boat is on the hard and he had just drilled a hole in the hull above the keel and drained out alot of black water. He had a small insert that he'll glass in later. The water stank like sewage and he said it was held between the hull and liner, inaccessable from the inside. His boat had smelled bad for years and when I climbed aboard it now seemed fine. I don't know if this is a common Hunter issue and hopefully someone will have an easier way to remove the stagnant water than drilling through the hull.
Bleach and Tide
Our surveyor said one of the tricks he has learned over the years is a cup of bleach and a cup of Tide (they crystals, not liquid) will clear it up and cut the grease and smell. His theory was that the granuals in there sailing around acted like a washing machine. Sounds good to me, but I haven't tried it yet... Beats paying way too much for that bildge cleaner stuff. I am interested to hear more about the trapped rotten water beneath the liner...
Our surveyor said one of the tricks he has learned over the years is a cup of bleach and a cup of Tide (they crystals, not liquid) will clear it up and cut the grease and smell. His theory was that the granuals in there sailing around acted like a washing machine. Sounds good to me, but I haven't tried it yet... Beats paying way too much for that bildge cleaner stuff. I am interested to hear more about the trapped rotten water beneath the liner...
Try this
Mark W.'s idea is what I do. Only I use baking soda and vinegar in all the drains (there are at least six on a 29.5), followed by boiling hot water. Then go sailing, to slosh out what hasn't flowed to the bilge.
Mark W.'s idea is what I do. Only I use baking soda and vinegar in all the drains (there are at least six on a 29.5), followed by boiling hot water. Then go sailing, to slosh out what hasn't flowed to the bilge.
Try actually CLEANING the bilge
A wet bilge is a dark stagnant pond, a swamp in fact. And it behaves like one, growing a variety of molds, fungi and bacteria—some that thrive in dark stagnant water, others that just like damp dark places. The warmer the weather and water, the faster they grow. Add some dead and decaying sea water micro-organisms, dirt, food particles, rain water, wash water, hot weather and humidity, plus a little oil or diesel, and you have a real primordial soup…no wonder it stinks! Most people’s approach to bilge cleaning consists only of throwing some "miracle" cleaning product and/or bleach into that soup when it starts to stink and calling it done. I’ve never understood why they think that’s all there is to it. They wouldn’t just add some detergent and bleach to a bathtub full of dirty bath water, drain it and call the bathtub clean. No one would ever even think of skipping the rinse cycle in the clothes washer or the dishwasher, or just pulling the plug in a sinkful of dirty dirty dishwater...so why would anyone think it’s possible to get a bilge clean without rinsing all the dirty water out of it? I suspect that laziness may be one of the reasons. The directions on bilge cleaners may be another; they don’t mention rinsing, only adding their product and allowing the bilge pump to pump the dirty water overboard, assuming that anyone smart enough to own a boat would figure out for himself that the bilge needs rinsing out afterward. And if you really want to do it right, you need to dry it out completely too... use a hand pump and a sponge to get what the bilge pump leaves behind, and leave the hatches open so that plenty of fresh air can circulate in it. Once a year should be enough to keep most boats smelling fresh (the best time to do it is in the spring as part of full recommissioning), although it may be necessary to clean the bilge two or three times a year in tropical climates.
A wet bilge is a dark stagnant pond, a swamp in fact. And it behaves like one, growing a variety of molds, fungi and bacteria—some that thrive in dark stagnant water, others that just like damp dark places. The warmer the weather and water, the faster they grow. Add some dead and decaying sea water micro-organisms, dirt, food particles, rain water, wash water, hot weather and humidity, plus a little oil or diesel, and you have a real primordial soup…no wonder it stinks! Most people’s approach to bilge cleaning consists only of throwing some "miracle" cleaning product and/or bleach into that soup when it starts to stink and calling it done. I’ve never understood why they think that’s all there is to it. They wouldn’t just add some detergent and bleach to a bathtub full of dirty bath water, drain it and call the bathtub clean. No one would ever even think of skipping the rinse cycle in the clothes washer or the dishwasher, or just pulling the plug in a sinkful of dirty dirty dishwater...so why would anyone think it’s possible to get a bilge clean without rinsing all the dirty water out of it? I suspect that laziness may be one of the reasons. The directions on bilge cleaners may be another; they don’t mention rinsing, only adding their product and allowing the bilge pump to pump the dirty water overboard, assuming that anyone smart enough to own a boat would figure out for himself that the bilge needs rinsing out afterward. And if you really want to do it right, you need to dry it out completely too... use a hand pump and a sponge to get what the bilge pump leaves behind, and leave the hatches open so that plenty of fresh air can circulate in it. Once a year should be enough to keep most boats smelling fresh (the best time to do it is in the spring as part of full recommissioning), although it may be necessary to clean the bilge two or three times a year in tropical climates.
The old TIDE trick
Hey Jared, Was your surveyor's name Ray? He told me that same trick, and I've tried it with moderate success. This last Fall, a temporary hatch failed under the onslaut of the half dozen hurricanes that battered, or at least drenched VA. I'd removed the lazarette hatch to refinish it, and when I got the chance to visit my poor boat, she had over 18" of rainwater, and incredibly foul goo floating in the bilge. Decades old oil, filth, and who knows what, had created a horrible layer of pudding floating on the top... Enough. I dumped in the TIDE, agitated the water as best I could, and hand pumped the mess overboard, a bucket at a time. I used that same bucket to pour fresh water back in as a rinse, along the lines of what Ms. Hall recommends. The TIDE definately broke up the worst of the oily crud.
Hey Jared, Was your surveyor's name Ray? He told me that same trick, and I've tried it with moderate success. This last Fall, a temporary hatch failed under the onslaut of the half dozen hurricanes that battered, or at least drenched VA. I'd removed the lazarette hatch to refinish it, and when I got the chance to visit my poor boat, she had over 18" of rainwater, and incredibly foul goo floating in the bilge. Decades old oil, filth, and who knows what, had created a horrible layer of pudding floating on the top... Enough. I dumped in the TIDE, agitated the water as best I could, and hand pumped the mess overboard, a bucket at a time. I used that same bucket to pour fresh water back in as a rinse, along the lines of what Ms. Hall recommends. The TIDE definately broke up the worst of the oily crud.
Try Humidifier Preservative
Peggy wrote that you have to clean your bilge, and keep it clean, for it not to smell. True enough. But even a clean bilge will start to smell after a few weeks if there is stagnant water there. What I have found to be remarkably effective is to add a capful of Humidifier Preservative to the bilge between cleanings, which I top off occasionally after pumping out rainwater. The preservative is just a very dilute solution of a quaternanry ammonium salt, and is routinely used to keep things from growing in the warm, wet, dark, water trays of household humidifiers. It works there, and it works well in the bilge of a boat too.
Peggy wrote that you have to clean your bilge, and keep it clean, for it not to smell. True enough. But even a clean bilge will start to smell after a few weeks if there is stagnant water there. What I have found to be remarkably effective is to add a capful of Humidifier Preservative to the bilge between cleanings, which I top off occasionally after pumping out rainwater. The preservative is just a very dilute solution of a quaternanry ammonium salt, and is routinely used to keep things from growing in the warm, wet, dark, water trays of household humidifiers. It works there, and it works well in the bilge of a boat too.
Quats are LETHAL stuff!
Not only highly toxic to the environment when pumped over the side by your bilge pump, but dangerous to handle without protective gear. So I'm not surprised that "humidifier preservative" helps to eliminate odor in the bilge...it kills everything it comes in contact with. Highly dilute or not, I wouldn't use it in a home humidifier or a bilge.
Not only highly toxic to the environment when pumped over the side by your bilge pump, but dangerous to handle without protective gear. So I'm not surprised that "humidifier preservative" helps to eliminate odor in the bilge...it kills everything it comes in contact with. Highly dilute or not, I wouldn't use it in a home humidifier or a bilge.
Don't be so chemophobic Peggy
Don't be so chemophobic Peggy. Yes quats are quite lethal, IF you are a bacterium. But if you were to take the time to read the MSDS on common quats (such as alkyl dimethyl benzyl chloride) you would see that dilute quat solution products are no more likely to kill a human than household bleach (which YOU would have us use once a year to comission our water tanks). And speaking of the need for protective gear, have you ever read the MSDS on bleach? Betty not trying using that stuff without protective gear. And if these quats kill everthing that they come in contact with, then the lawyers had better start lining up right now! Quats are found in Lysol Disinfectant Wipes, Lysol Deodorizing Cleaner, Simple Green, Chlorox Fresh Scent Disinfectant Spray, swimming pool algicide, Pine Fresh (the list goes on...)- and people will start dropping like flies any minute! Peggy, you are certainly an expert on marine sanitation, but NOT (apparently) on chemicals.
Don't be so chemophobic Peggy. Yes quats are quite lethal, IF you are a bacterium. But if you were to take the time to read the MSDS on common quats (such as alkyl dimethyl benzyl chloride) you would see that dilute quat solution products are no more likely to kill a human than household bleach (which YOU would have us use once a year to comission our water tanks). And speaking of the need for protective gear, have you ever read the MSDS on bleach? Betty not trying using that stuff without protective gear. And if these quats kill everthing that they come in contact with, then the lawyers had better start lining up right now! Quats are found in Lysol Disinfectant Wipes, Lysol Deodorizing Cleaner, Simple Green, Chlorox Fresh Scent Disinfectant Spray, swimming pool algicide, Pine Fresh (the list goes on...)- and people will start dropping like flies any minute! Peggy, you are certainly an expert on marine sanitation, but NOT (apparently) on chemicals.
There's that highly toxic term again
and lethal too and again not true. At least there was no reference to witches. My bilge is actually dusty - not at all swampy and never has been. Ever heard of a dripless seal? I noticed a local grocery has bleach on sale for $.99 per gallon. No permit or license or common sense needed.
and lethal too and again not true. At least there was no reference to witches. My bilge is actually dusty - not at all swampy and never has been. Ever heard of a dripless seal? I noticed a local grocery has bleach on sale for $.99 per gallon. No permit or license or common sense needed.
What gave u the idea that quats are in all those
products? It would certainly come as surprise to at least some of their mfrs. Quats are, however, the bio-cide in several holding tank products (Starbrite being one), all of which are considered highly environmentally UNfriendly. Quats can also cause bacteria to mutate. I know just a wee bit more about some chemicals than you apparently think I do.
products? It would certainly come as surprise to at least some of their mfrs. Quats are, however, the bio-cide in several holding tank products (Starbrite being one), all of which are considered highly environmentally UNfriendly. Quats can also cause bacteria to mutate. I know just a wee bit more about some chemicals than you apparently think I do.
Because quats ARE in those products
Peggy, if you knew just a wee bit more about chemicals, you would know it is a trivial matter to look up their applications and uses. And when you do that with quats, you will quickly find hundreds if not thousands of everyday products that contain them. You can then go to a manufacture’s web site and look up the MSD sheets for their products, and indeed find quats listed. And much of the time the quat will even be listed on the label under active ingredients. (As it is on a bottle of toilet bowl cleaner I have in my bathroom.) And if you knew all that, you wouldn't then make such a silly statement, as "It would certainly come as surprise to at least some of their mfrs…" to find there are quats in their products! Try going to: http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=chem&id=575, where you will find a short list of a number of common household products that contain quats, including the “incredibly toxic and environmentally unfriendly” Formula 409. Peggy, I defer to your opinion in matters of poo, where you are certainly an expert. But being an expert in one area does not automatically make you one in others. In this case I will put more faith in the INFORMED opinions of industrial hygienists as to just how dangerous and nasty quats are.
Peggy, if you knew just a wee bit more about chemicals, you would know it is a trivial matter to look up their applications and uses. And when you do that with quats, you will quickly find hundreds if not thousands of everyday products that contain them. You can then go to a manufacture’s web site and look up the MSD sheets for their products, and indeed find quats listed. And much of the time the quat will even be listed on the label under active ingredients. (As it is on a bottle of toilet bowl cleaner I have in my bathroom.) And if you knew all that, you wouldn't then make such a silly statement, as "It would certainly come as surprise to at least some of their mfrs…" to find there are quats in their products! Try going to: http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=chem&id=575, where you will find a short list of a number of common household products that contain quats, including the “incredibly toxic and environmentally unfriendly” Formula 409. Peggy, I defer to your opinion in matters of poo, where you are certainly an expert. But being an expert in one area does not automatically make you one in others. In this case I will put more faith in the INFORMED opinions of industrial hygienists as to just how dangerous and nasty quats are.
Smell
The smell is due to bacteria and mold. A simple cleaning is only part of the "solution" since the spores of the mold will remain and activate again when there is sufficient moisture and material on which to grow (dirt). The proper treatment should be to add some lysol (or similar disinfectant) to the water to kill the bacteria and mold, then drain and dry the bilge (and "sub bilge"?). The disinfectant solution that remains (leave a little residue) after clean-up should inhibit or minimize future growth until it become too dilute to be effective. At that point, the process should be repeated.
The smell is due to bacteria and mold. A simple cleaning is only part of the "solution" since the spores of the mold will remain and activate again when there is sufficient moisture and material on which to grow (dirt). The proper treatment should be to add some lysol (or similar disinfectant) to the water to kill the bacteria and mold, then drain and dry the bilge (and "sub bilge"?). The disinfectant solution that remains (leave a little residue) after clean-up should inhibit or minimize future growth until it become too dilute to be effective. At that point, the process should be repeated.
Mixing cleaners...
Unless I've missed something here, I haven't seen anyone warning about mixing cleaners. Before you mix Tide with bleach (or any chemicals, for that matter) check for compatibility. I know at least one person who attempted to clean his bilge with Soft Scrub. He had a leak in the holding tank and wanted to get the smell out and clean the residue. Well, the Clorox in the Soft Scrub reacted with the ammonia in the sewage residue and made him quite sick. His eyes were burning, nose was stinging and he was nearly overcome. Debate the issue at hand, but be mindful of the potential results of mixing household cleaners or ANY other chemicals. Cheers, Bob
Unless I've missed something here, I haven't seen anyone warning about mixing cleaners. Before you mix Tide with bleach (or any chemicals, for that matter) check for compatibility. I know at least one person who attempted to clean his bilge with Soft Scrub. He had a leak in the holding tank and wanted to get the smell out and clean the residue. Well, the Clorox in the Soft Scrub reacted with the ammonia in the sewage residue and made him quite sick. His eyes were burning, nose was stinging and he was nearly overcome. Debate the issue at hand, but be mindful of the potential results of mixing household cleaners or ANY other chemicals. Cheers, Bob
Air cleaner you asked about
is actually an ozone generator unless I am mistaken. Ozone is a corrosive gas (at normal temperatures and pressures) and also would probably qualify as a "bleach". It is probably not a healthy thing to live with it long term while it is operating continually. Ozone is one of the ingredients in "smog" and does have some chemo-biocidal qualities which will reduce odors. There are some companies which specialize in odor removal. My wife contacted one of them about the smoke smell on our boat and they have some system for getting rid of that. We didn't use them but they claimed to be able to get rid of just about any odor. If there is mold, that can be more of a problem than just smell or stain. I do not have any good reference for getting rid of mold other than cleaning and disinfecting the source.
is actually an ozone generator unless I am mistaken. Ozone is a corrosive gas (at normal temperatures and pressures) and also would probably qualify as a "bleach". It is probably not a healthy thing to live with it long term while it is operating continually. Ozone is one of the ingredients in "smog" and does have some chemo-biocidal qualities which will reduce odors. There are some companies which specialize in odor removal. My wife contacted one of them about the smoke smell on our boat and they have some system for getting rid of that. We didn't use them but they claimed to be able to get rid of just about any odor. If there is mold, that can be more of a problem than just smell or stain. I do not have any good reference for getting rid of mold other than cleaning and disinfecting the source.
Hot fogging
is something I have heard about for getting rid of persistent odors. Never used it myself but it was highly recommended to me for smoke smell on my boat. Supposedly would work for any smell. For smoke smells, they said that they would use some kind of rye grass in their process. Only in the case of molds, I would think you would have to get rid of the source. May be a good application for bleach.
is something I have heard about for getting rid of persistent odors. Never used it myself but it was highly recommended to me for smoke smell on my boat. Supposedly would work for any smell. For smoke smells, they said that they would use some kind of rye grass in their process. Only in the case of molds, I would think you would have to get rid of the source. May be a good application for bleach.
boat odor
I've had that contagious smell problem with two boats and a log cabin. The problem is that porous things -- like cushions and wood -- pick up the smell and then transmit it to clothing. The solution for the cabin was to sand and urethane varnish the interior surface of the logs -- thus sealing the surface. For one of the boats, I did the same to all interior wood. Airing may work, but not with a severe case. Cushion covers can be washed with mold-killing preparations. I washed the foam cushion pads with a pair of rubber boots in a canoe filled with detergent. I squeezed some of the rinse water out later by rolling up the pads, putting them between plywood pieces under 2-by-10's and driving over the arrangement. Then I managed to get them sun-and-air dried before they got moldy from being wet. Some people, of course, will merely buy new cushions. It just depends on the point at which you want to start pouring money down that hole in the water. In summary: (1) kill the mold, (2) clean everything, (3) put porous things back in the boat only after the boat doesn't smell.
I've had that contagious smell problem with two boats and a log cabin. The problem is that porous things -- like cushions and wood -- pick up the smell and then transmit it to clothing. The solution for the cabin was to sand and urethane varnish the interior surface of the logs -- thus sealing the surface. For one of the boats, I did the same to all interior wood. Airing may work, but not with a severe case. Cushion covers can be washed with mold-killing preparations. I washed the foam cushion pads with a pair of rubber boots in a canoe filled with detergent. I squeezed some of the rinse water out later by rolling up the pads, putting them between plywood pieces under 2-by-10's and driving over the arrangement. Then I managed to get them sun-and-air dried before they got moldy from being wet. Some people, of course, will merely buy new cushions. It just depends on the point at which you want to start pouring money down that hole in the water. In summary: (1) kill the mold, (2) clean everything, (3) put porous things back in the boat only after the boat doesn't smell.
Andy, do you have pics?
of you washing cusions in a canoe and then driving over them? Have to admit the mental image is hilarious! Thanks D.
of you washing cusions in a canoe and then driving over them? Have to admit the mental image is hilarious! Thanks D.
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