Best way to handle grounding with tide going out

cadams

.
Nov 12, 2009
18
Catalina 30 Bear Lake
I would be interested in anyone's experience with grounding a Catalina 30 wing keel with the tide going out and going to leave the boat dry (or nearly so, e.g., with tides >4 feet or so). I am most interested in Mark IIs (e.g. 1988) if it makes any difference in responses. Let's assume the boat is on sand or mud.

The answers might be different for a wing keel vs a fin keel. I am most interested with a wing keel but would like to hear discussion of boats with both keels.

Is it better to try to support the boat and keep the boat upright and support the weight on the keel, or to lay the boat on its side?

Seems to me, keeping the boat upright would be risky with what might be available to you when accidentally grounded somewhere. Maybe this would work better on hard sand, but on soft mud is seems very difficult or impossible. If the boat later tipped over later, it seems the damage could be significant.

If you lay the boat on her side, I have some questions. I presume one would want to put a tarp or something (if available) on the side that will contact the bottom to prevent damage. Obviously you'd close up the cabin hatches, stopcocks on throughholes, etc. You would want to lay the boat on the side towards to shore to keeps waves out.

Would the boat lay over easily? Would the boat float up easily when the tide comes back in without water getting to the cabin hatch or cause problems in the cockpit (e.g., electronics, water in the lazerettes, water trying to get into cabin, etc.)? Do you need to work very hard (such as with a halyard out to an anchor, or pulling down on the boom to the side) to get the boat to lay on her side and not stand on the (wing) keel? Is this all pretty straightforward, or tricky? Anyone try to balance the boat on the wing keel with maybe some supports from lines, spinnaker pole of other items?

How stable is the boat upright on the wing keel at various stages of water dropping out from under her? If the boat is going to be left dry vs. say in 2 feet of water, is the approach different? Is the boat fairly steady sitting on the wing? Is it important to move anything around the boat to try to balance it better? Seems like wind would be a factor. What's the best way to support the boat with what would typically be available on board? Experiences?

I would love to hear some experiences and suggestions in case I ever get in this situation (e.g., in the Pacific Northwest, east coast or elsewhere).

Obviously its best to not run aground, and if you do, to get off quickly. However, it does happen and could happen at dead high tide.

Thanks in advance. Love the Catalina 30 forums!
 

Sailm8

.
Feb 21, 2008
1,750
Hunter 29.5 Punta Gorda
I have no first hand experience but I don't think you would have much hope of doing much to stop it. Gravity being the driving force. What could you have on board to prop it up in a soft bottom? Realistically, the boat would slowly tip on to its side so damage would be minimal from impact. If you were mired in deep enough the boat would just stick up supported by the keel (I've seen this). Remember many sailors careen their boats in large tidal areas to clean the bottom.

This is different than is a boat falls over on the hard. Say dropped off a lift or jackstands collapse. Then the impact can be enough to destroy the interior from the hull flexing. Interesting question, maybe someone else has first hand experience in that type of grounding.
 
Jul 1, 2004
398
Catalina 30 Atlanta GA
The big question is can you kedge with a winged keel? I have a Mark II with a winged keel and have the same concerns regarding grounding. You know you cannot kedge off going sideways and forward might dig in the keel deeper. With a standard fin keel you can toss out (taking it out as far as possible with a dinghy) and kedge off the cockpit winch for a sideways making it easy, but a winged keel? My first reaction is set as many anchors as possible to keep her steady and wait for the tide to rise.

Chime in winged keelers!

Bob
 
Feb 26, 2008
603
Catalina 30 Marathon, FL
No experience with our 30 but we did ground our 22 on a falling tide once.

There was no drama. We broke out sandwiches and books and waited for the tide to roll back in. She sat quite comfortably balanced on her wing keel. I'd imagine the 30 would do the same.
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
I have never had to kedge a wing keel either but now I have one. I would not hesitate to kedge a wing keel as long as I didn't wait too long. They might kedge easier than a fin due to sledding effect. The key is to act fast or your going to sit like Jim said. I have seen several through the years sitting it out in the San Fran bay mud flats. I used to Bahama tie in Tamales bay with my other 26" Clipper Marine so have back set an anchor from a dingy or wading many times. Doing the breast stroke while carring an anchor is not recommended!
Chief
 
May 1, 2011
4,825
Pearson 37 Lusby MD
Wrap the anchor in a PFD, such as a kapok life jacket, then swim it the length of the rode. I got a Navy 44 off a sandbar using that method.
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
Well Kappy, I was just kidding about the breaststroke! Using a float/ring anchor retriever works great for pulling up anchors and could be used to float back and set one as well.
Chief
 
May 1, 2011
4,825
Pearson 37 Lusby MD
Well Kappy, I was just kidding about the breaststroke! Using a float/ring anchor retriever works great for pulling up anchors and could be used to float back and set one as well.
Chief
I figured as much, Chief. I do recall that none of my sailing classes told us how to get that 35lb anchor far enough away from the boat to do much good. Necessity is the mother of invention!
 
Last edited:
Nov 18, 2013
54
Oday 32 Ketch North Fort Myers, FL
The very real danger in a grounding, be it wing, fin full keel or???, is the water you take on with the returning tide. Modern vessels with low bridge decks and insubstantial drop boards don't effectively block water from entering the cabin. On some types of bottom you could use a reaching pole, boom or other available spar to help keep the boat more upright. More boats are lost to extreme water damage to cabin appointments, auxiliaries and electronics than structural damage caused by taking the hard gradually.
Hope it never happens to you.

Highest regards, Darrell
 
Feb 20, 2011
8,044
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
The very real danger in a grounding, be it wing, fin full keel or???, is the water you take on with the returning tide. Modern vessels with low bridge decks and insubstantial drop boards don't effectively block water from entering the cabin. On some types of bottom you could use a reaching pole, boom or other available spar to help keep the boat more upright. More boats are lost to extreme water damage to cabin appointments, auxiliaries and electronics than structural damage caused by taking the hard gradually.
Hope it never happens to you.

Highest regards, Darrell
Try to careen with your deck towards shore, if possible.
 
Jul 1, 2004
398
Catalina 30 Atlanta GA
Agree on water entering the boat and water tanks emptying into the boat!! My 35 Coronado grounded in the ICW at Fernandino, Florida. I was in-between the markers but the shifting sandbar got me. The boat drew 5' 6" and she healed a good 30-45 degrees if not more. The water tank in the boat started to leak out into the cabin. I had a hard dinghy on davits and got her launched well before we heeled so dropping two kedge anchors was easy. I could not kedge her off until the tide came back in, but we had a good 10-gallons of water in the boat which we dumped out using a hand pump. The only way I could see kedging a wing keel if forward with all crew to the back to keep her from digging in. But my best advice would be to balance the weight and just WAIT til the tide rolls in. ANYWAYS WHATS THE HURRY! Might be a good time to inspect below the water line.

Bob
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,948
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
HEEL - boat's tilting over

HEAL - stuff a doctor does

just a once yearly request, NOT spell police :):):)
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
Stu: In that situation he may have been trying to heal that grounding! ha Chief
 
Jan 6, 2010
1,520
I haven't seen any mention of friction forces with soft groundings. Obviously the best practice is NOT to go aground. However, with engine, mechanical or course situations, it happens. The old saying "If you haven't been aground, you haven't been around."

From a friction standpoint, the wing keel has more surface area contact. Worse in mud from friction + suction. I was on a friend's winged boat when he thought he'd throttle to do a 180°turnaround. Well that didn't work. We had a total of 6 onboard, so I asked him if I could try something I use with my fin keel.

I had everyone up as far forward to the bow. I locked the wheel, straight rudder (aligned to the way we came in). Put her in reverse and throttled up to 2500+ RPM. I asked the folks to squat up & down in unison. After a minute hobby-horsing the boat, she started to move. As she picked up speed, I ran back to the wheel for steerage. This style of reverse straight-lined has worked for me many times.

Keep in mind, the best way off a grounding is backing straight out the way you came in. Sometimes wind, tide & current will have you turned. So, if you can't turn the boat under power, that's the time to swim an anchor line out not as much for kedging, but to turn the bow to the angle you came in on. If the wind is right, you may also be able to use your head sail to turn you around.

Remember to set your depth gauge to a higher feet setting in areas that have skinny water. It will give extra time to avoid to avoid grounding in the first place.

CR
 
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cadams

.
Nov 12, 2009
18
Catalina 30 Bear Lake
I really appreciate all the comments. I like the idea of setting anchors etc to stabilize and then waiting it out. Sure could see wind, waves or wakes playing mischief. Anyone ever been left balanced on their wing keel on the ground before? How'd that work out.
Thanks for all the discussion in this thread.
 

jrowan

.
Mar 5, 2011
1,294
O'Day 35 Severn River, Mobjack Bay, Va.
I like Capt. Ron's advice, & the words on kedging anchors. Growing up in Ireland, we have many sailboats designed to be dried out on twin keel type configurations, such as the English Westerly designs. This is only practical as they can have tidal changes as much as 12 feet! So its not a matter of if, but when they run aground.
As for the C 30 specifically, when we first bought ours, the depth sounder promptly died after purchasing & moving her for the first time. The water in the Chesapeake gets pretty thin. So we caught the edge of a sandbar coming into a marina. I kedged an anchor astern to keep her from being pushed abeam to the waves. We have a 5'.3" fin keel, but she would not reverse off the sand with our tiny 5411 two banger diesel. Eventually we were towed off the sand by Tow Boat U.S.
This is something that no one else has mentioned, but you better be prepared & pay for a tow membership in advance. If you have to get assistance out on the water, they will charge you a minimum of a grand by the time they're done racking up charges. I was very glad that I paid my $145.00 per year due, which I got my money's worth!
Secondly, I am always more concerned about damaging my spade rudder, then getting water in the cabin. Water can always be pumped out. A damaged rudder can total your boat. I was glad that our boat was bow towards shore, & the rudder facing the sea, so that there was deeper water around the rudder. I would rather my boat rest on the keel & bow facing towards shore for this very reason. But even if I didn't have towing membership (& I would never sail without it) I would pay to have my boat towed off a grounding, then take the risk of the boat heeling over & resting weight on the rudder & busting it off, or worse through the hull. But for the sake of evidence, here's a pic of a boat that is well balanced on a fin keel:
 

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Last edited:
Feb 26, 2008
603
Catalina 30 Marathon, FL
I really appreciate all the comments. I like the idea of setting anchors etc to stabilize and then waiting it out. Sure could see wind, waves or wakes playing mischief. Anyone ever been left balanced on their wing keel on the ground before? How'd that work out.
Thanks for all the discussion in this thread.
Our 22 was balanced on her keel on a sand bar. We got pushed up by a big wake ghosting along in light winds. At first I was nervous moving around the boat but she was very stable. The tide was around 8 feet so we were left high and dry.

I actually climbed down the stern ladder and walked the anchor out so she'd be pointed into the wakes from the river as the tide came back up. It worked out pretty well, like I said no drama, and we were getting a lot of wakes as the tide came in.