best one toilet installation on a 36 foot sailboat

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Oct 29, 2006
388
Beneteau 381 Olympia, WA
Hey all,

we have a Beneteau 361 and love it, we used it all weekend and had the longest stay on it with 5 nights (left early :)). we have at times had some toilet issues with pressure and it wasnt pretty, now got that somewhat under control but we're still struggling with some pressure building, its not flushing solids very well, my 5 year old almost clogged it... worse, the mrs isnt trusting it at all! Besides this the constant fear of tank over flow is there, specially with all the flushing...

on top of this the electric conversion kit for Jabsco, a BIG mistake, as stated by Peggy, as its WAY noisy! oddly enough the mrs is ok with that :doh: So it ends up someone being unhappy with it no matter what. here is what I have:
Jabsco something or another with conversion kit and a standard tank, regular vent hose still on....

SO, anyone have any tips on hoe to build the "perfect" system? I like the raritan treatment system, no more pumpout, no more tank.... does it work? is it a good solution for the boat? I have 500 amp hours of battery and could run generator easier than dealing with the present.

Appreciate any comments!

thanks!
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
I wouldn't go with the Raritan treatment system, as it isn't very useful in NDZ areas, and if you ever re-sell the boat, it would probably reduce the sale value of it. Also, they tend to be power hungry and increase the maintenance costs of the head.

If you're worried about pressure and clogging and want something simple... get a Raritan PHC or PHII. I would also recommend you setup the head so that it does not dump directly overboard, but only into the holding tank, as that simplifies your plumbing. Then use the through-hull formerly used for dumping directly overboard for pumping the holding tank out overboard—using a diverter valve in the holding tank pumpout line, with one side going to the deck pumpout fitting and the other going to a good diaphragm pump and then to the seacock and overboard.

This type of setup gives you the most flexibility and minimizes the amount of plumbing and hose needed.

I'd point out that pre-filling the head with a pint or two of water often makes flushing it cleanly simpler.
 
Sep 19, 2006
643
SCHOCK santana27' lake pleasant,az
i closed up the thru hull and put in a porta potty myself. it didn't come with a holding tank
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,103
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Dogg is right, you have to know your area and make sure the Type 1 Raritan is OK.. If your regs allow a Type 1 , I have had great experience with the LectraSan ..Yes, it needs salt to work properly, so if you are in fresh water, ya have to provide salt to make it work. The electrodes have to be replaced periodically and eventually the pump(s) need replacement as well; but it really was nice to not have to worry about pump outs and macerators and holding tank levels.. There were three on my friend’s big power yacht and they’ve been performing flawlessly for three years now. They were 5 years old when he bought the boat.
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
Unfortunately, the stupid Government doesn't allow MSDs like the Raritan Lectra San to discharge overboard in NDZs, even though they are far cleaner than what usually comes out of the municipal sewage treatment plants.
 
Oct 29, 2006
388
Beneteau 381 Olympia, WA
more questions

I wouldn't go with the Raritan treatment system, as it isn't very useful in NDZ areas, and if you ever re-sell the boat, it would probably reduce the sale value of it. Also, they tend to be power hungry and increase the maintenance costs of the head.

If you're worried about pressure and clogging and want something simple... get a Raritan PHC or PHII. I would also recommend you setup the head so that it does not dump directly overboard, but only into the holding tank, as that simplifies your plumbing. Then use the through-hull formerly used for dumping directly overboard for pumping the holding tank out overboard—using a diverter valve in the holding tank pumpout line, with one side going to the deck pumpout fitting and the other going to a good diaphragm pump and then to the seacock and overboard.

This type of setup gives you the most flexibility and minimizes the amount of plumbing and hose needed.

I'd point out that pre-filling the head with a pint or two of water often makes flushing it cleanly simpler.

OK, that makes sense to be able to pump out manually and I like that... I Think I can resuse most of my hoses that way and just get a longer one right from the head to the tank.

Now say we keep the tank, I need to make sure the vent issue doesnt return and the advice was to increase vent diameter, is going to 1,5 inch too much? My tank fitting is that size and easy to install but BIG hole in the boat.

What toilets are the best, I'm positive that a budget will be released for a proper toilet that makes operations simpler and "safer". here's what I'm thinking:
- salt water fed (we run out of fresh in 5 days)
- safe to run dry if the thruhull was accidentally closed
- easy to operate, hopfully just a button, then the 5 yearold can do it himself and let me enjoy my beverage.
- quiet....

thanks for all advice and I'm still not ruling out the electrasan, I like the idea about no pumpout but have read about expensive electroplates that has to be replaced more frequently than estimated.

Gaute
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
OK, that makes sense to be able to pump out manually and I like that... I Think I can resuse most of my hoses that way and just get a longer one right from the head to the tank.
If you're going to bother replumbing the system, replace the hoses now... :)

Now say we keep the tank, I need to make sure the vent issue doesnt return and the advice was to increase vent diameter, is going to 1,5 inch too much? My tank fitting is that size and easy to install but BIG hole in the boat.
I'd go with a 1" rather than 1.5" hose. A 1.5" hose is HUGE.

What toilets are the best, I'm positive that a budget will be released for a proper toilet that makes operations simpler and "safer". here's what I'm thinking:
- salt water fed (we run out of fresh in 5 days)
- safe to run dry if the thruhull was accidentally closed
- easy to operate, hopfully just a button, then the 5 yearold can do it himself and let me enjoy my beverage.
- quiet....
A manual head is the way to go, IMHO. The Raritan PHC or PHII are close to bulletproof, and will last a long time. They can also take quite a bit of abuse and are fairly durable, and can be re-built pretty easily.

Most heads won't flush if the seawater intake seacock is closed, unless you fill the bowl with water. But, that will generally cause other problems in the long run. :)

If your five-year-old can't figure out how to use a marine head... you're in trouble.

thanks for all advice and I'm still not ruling out the electrasan, I like the idea about no pumpout but have read about expensive electroplates that has to be replaced more frequently than estimated.

Gaute
I prefer to simplify the systems on my boat and reduce the number of consumables... This really makes sense if you're ever planning on doing longer passages or trips. If you're just weekending or day sailing, it doesn't matter how many consumable parts you have for your boat, since you can stock up pretty easily.
 
Oct 29, 2006
388
Beneteau 381 Olympia, WA
If you're going to bother replumbing the system, replace the hoses now... :)
The ones on the boat now are only a year old so I think they can go a bit longer but I might replace as needed on the replumbing.

I'd go with a 1" rather than 1.5" hose. A 1.5" hose is HUGE.
so can they be too big? I'm worried about the reducer, the tank has a big fitting, why not increase with 1/2 inch on the hose? when we heel to port I'm sure that fitting is in the wet area and I'm worried thats where it gets clogged up...

Most heads won't flush if the seawater intake seacock is closed, unless you fill the bowl with water. But, that will generally cause other problems in the long run. :)
Well yeah they won't flush but I'm also looking for one that doesnt break when run dry.... if the thruhull was left closed or the filter was clogged... it be nice to know the toilet won't break by someone insisting on getting it filled.


If your five-year-old can't figure out how to use a marine head... you're in trouble.

:) I know I'm in trouble but I also know that when a 5 year old goes #2 I dont think he'll be able to flush using a manual pump and switch between wet and dry until its all done. Also I'm the only one to be able to flush the toiled now so no matter what age the user needs more than a basci understanding of how it works.

I prefer to simplify the systems on my boat and reduce the number of consumables... This really makes sense if you're ever planning on doing longer passages or trips. If you're just weekending or day sailing, it doesn't matter how many consumable parts you have for your boat, since you can stock up pretty easily.
we definately fall in the weekend category so we'll have to find balance between engineering simplicity and usability. Raritan has one that works both electric and manual, but anyone have experience with it?
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,954
- - LIttle Rock
You've certainly gotten a lot of advice, but not necessarily good advice

we have a Beneteau 361 ...we have at times had some toilet issues with pressure and it wasnt pretty, now got that somewhat under control but we're still struggling with some pressure building, its not flushing solids very well, my 5 year old almost clogged it... worse, the mrs isnt trusting it at all! Besides this the constant fear of tank over flow is there, specially with all the flushing...on top of this the electric conversion kit for Jabsco, a BIG mistake, as stated by Peggy, as its WAY noisy! oddly enough the mrs is ok with that :doh: So it ends up someone being unhappy with it no matter what. here is what I have: Jabsco something or another with conversion kit and a standard tank, regular vent hose still on....SO, anyone have any tips on hoe to build the "perfect" system? I like the raritan treatment system, no more pumpout, no more tank.... does it work? is it a good solution for the boat? I have 500 amp hours of battery and could run generator easier than dealing with the present.

What you have is a Jabsco 29200. It's a macerating electric toilet that really only has three real flaws: noise, amperage draw and durability. Since it works, and is likely to keep on working for at least another year or two, you don't need a new toilet, nor do you need to reroute any plumbing or replace any hoses any hoses unless they stink. 'Cuz none of the above is likely to solve any of the problems you named: back pressure, clogs, difficulty flushing solids, or tank overflow.

I suspect your biggest problem--back pressure--is due to a partially clogged tank vent...clearing it should relieve that problem. If there's a filter in the vent line, remove it! Filters are expensive, only last for a year and are toast immediately if they get wet--the charcoal swells up and blocks the vent line!...which makes vent line filters a VERY bad idea on sailboats because tank contents spill into the vent line when the boat heels.

Macerated waste rarely clogs plumbing downstream of a toilet...so unless you're using the wrong TP, or your 5 yr old tried to flush something he shouldn't have, a clogged toilet from an overload of solids and TP will dissolve within an hour. Just pour some water into the bowl. You'll also reduce to the likelihood of a clog in the toilet if you add a few cups of water to the bowl ahead of solids.

I would NOT revert to a manual toilet...not with a small child aboard. The toilet you have macerates what goes into it...any clog is gonna happen in the toilet. Otoh, a manual toilet may pass something that shouldn't have been flushed, resulting a clog downstream that may require major surgery.

Installing a tank level indicator is the solution to preventing tank overflow...I recommend the Profile system: newprovidencemarine However, no tank monitor will relieve you of the need to keep an eye on the indicator and pump out before the tank gets full. Your toilet does have one advantage most others don't: a "dry bowl" function. Learning how to use it will reduce the amount of flush water, dramatically increasing the number of flushes your tank can hold.

As for replumbing your tank discharge to allow dumping the tank at sea...BAD idea! 'Cuz the only place within at least 100 miles of your home port where it's legal to dump a tank is the middle of the Strait...everywhere else you're within 3 miles of shore or an island in some direction.

An Electro Scan (current version of the Lectra/San) would be the ideal alternative to a holding tank in your waters--and will actually ADD value to your boat...'cuz except for a few misguided marinas, there are no NDZs in the entire state of WA, not even Lake Union. The controller is greatly improved--although it does require paying some attention to it!--and electrode life is no longer the issue it was. And while the amperage DRAW may look a bit scary, actual daily CONSUMPTION is only about 10a/day/person. Operation and maintenance are very simple and easy...although I wouldn't let your 5 yr old use the head unsupervised. In fact, it may not be the best idea to let him use your current system unsupervised if you want to limit the amount of flush water, TP, and make sure water is added to the bowl ahead of solids etc.

Bottom line: There is no such thing as the "perfect" (i.e "as easy to use and maintain as the one at home") toilet/sanitation system. And IMO you don't need any new equpment except a tank level monitor, or any mods to the plumbing...you just need to learn how to operate and maintain what you have to make it work the way it's supposed to. It's not difficult, it's just a learning curve like everything else on a boat.

To help you over that learning curve, I suggest you check out the link in my signature...it'll take you to comprehensive "marine toilets and holding tanks 101" manual that should help you learn to prevent most problems. And I'm here to answer any questions it doesn't.
 

Johnb

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Jan 22, 2008
1,461
Hunter 37-cutter Richmond CA
When we got our Hunter 37C 9 years ago one of the first problems we faced was that the holding tank was shot. We needed to deal with it but were short of time and money. Walking through a marine store we spotted a Sealand Traveler that had been returned and was in their bargain section. At the time it seemed like a good temporary solution. 9 years later it seems like a great permanent solution.

The advantages are:
1 It needs no power to operate – even if there was no pressurized house water you could still flush with a jug
2 Anything that will drop down through the hole can be harpooned and retrieved through the hole – with the flush valve open you can see the whole inside of the tank. The system is bomb proof.
3 Every now and again we do a gourmet clean out where we hit the walls and bottom of the tank with water jetted from a hose and keep pumping out until it is pristine.
4 With judicious use you have complete control over how much water is needed for a flush. I added a valve in the fresh water supply so it can be cut off with the flush valve open. When used by “experts” it is amazing how the tank capacity can be eked out.
5 With an integral tank you save on all kinds of piping, valves and space elsewhere in the boat.
6 The tanks is translucent so you can see the level.

The downside is that the tank does not have a very large capacity, either 6.5 or 9.5 gallons, but as mentioned above, it can be put to good use.
 

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Dec 2, 1997
8,954
- - LIttle Rock
I've always liked that system

It's the SeaLand 711 M28 Traveler...and everything John says about it is true. It's really just a glorified MSD portapotty, but I like to think of it as a "poor man's VacuFlush" 'cuz it uses the same bowl assembly.

It has only one possible drawback: the tank footprint--approx. 20 x 22--is too big to fit in the head on most sailboats. Defender has it for the best price: SeaLand Traveler at Defender
 
Oct 29, 2006
388
Beneteau 381 Olympia, WA
Re: I've always liked that system

Hey Johnb, thats definately one way to go but there is no way that will fit in our head, they made a small ledge for the actual toilet and its barely enough for the regular toilets.

On another note, has anyone installed electro scan in their boat? the manual says its suppose to be at level or lower than discharge of toilet but the techs say its fine if you have a pump to deliver the waste to the tank.... the inlet to the tank looks low on it and I dont want to pump it in there just to find out it comes back out :(

thanks!
Gaute
 
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