Best non toxic anti-fouling for PNW?

[adamv]

my boat is in water year round in the pacific north west and needs new AF - i was going to go with the boat yards recommendation of 3 layers of Micron CSC,... that was until i looked up how these products work (through toxicity, and with a long half life). I just cant justify putting stuff into the water that will clearly be laughably illegal in years to come.
So im looking for less lethal alternatives. I read about Silicone based products, Auqaguard, VS721 and others but its hard to understand which will last closest to the toxic types and whether there are now yet better products on the market.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Ever consider the irony of the aversion to using copper based bottom paint because it’s “toxic” while drinking water out of copper pipes?

 

[adamv]

Ever consider the irony of the aversion to using copper based bottom paint because it’s “toxic” while drinking water out of copper pipes?

What irony? AFAIK all minerals have the potential to kill any life if used in sufficcent ways and quantities.
Cuperous oxide is specifically used as a biocide, AF paints are also designed to leach from the boat. Knowing this, would anyone eat muscles that live near CO covered boats? I used to dive down to clean my boat - my mouth was in that blue cloud. Dont think i'll be doing that after reading up about these paints

 

[Hayden Watson]

It is certainly not coper free, but I get 8-years out of my Trinidad Pro. I hauled out and painted in 2005, 2013 & 2021. I have never had anything but soft growth on the fiberglass hull. I pull to paint when the keel starts holding on to hard growth.

 

[Charles Erwin]

Your personal goal is evidently twofold: Paint that is safe and paint that works. You can have paint that fits in one category, but you cannot have paint that fits in both. Consider reading the Washington Department of Ecology November 2023 (3rd) report.

 

[Hayden Watson]

Your personal goal is evidently twofold: Paint that is safe and paint that works. You can have paint that fits in one category, but you cannot have paint that fits in both. Consider reading the Washington Department of Ecology November 2023 (3rd) report.

When WA dropped the requirement for copper free bottom paint, I read the report that led to this decision. The basic reason was that they found that most of the copper free paints were more harmful to the aquatic environment and those that were not, did not work.

2304057.pdf (wa.gov)

 

[Hayden Watson]

What irony? AFAIK all minerals have the potential to kill any life if used in sufficcent ways and quantities.
Cuperous oxide is specifically used as a biocide, AF paints are also designed to leach from the boat. Knowing this, would anyone eat muscles that live near CO covered boats? I used to dive down to clean my boat - my mouth was in that blue cloud. Dont think i'll be doing that after reading up about these paints

Did you use an ablative paint or a hard paint. I dive Papillon twice a year to clean the Trinidad and there is just the faintest bit of blue that comes from a few areas [primarily at the waterline]. Most of the bottom wipes clean with a single swipe of a piece of carpet or a white Scotch-Brite pad.

 

[capta]

"Non-toxic" basically means "useless" when talking about antifouling paint.
However, even the most "toxic" and expensive antifouling failed to do the job reliably. I could buy my antifouling paint outside the US, so it wasn't limited by those rules, yet it really didn't matter. I never found an antifouling paint that did what it was supposed to do, for more than 6 months, so I ended up buying the cheapest bottom paint I could find. After that it was necessary to scrub the bottom monthly, by hand. I bought a "deck snorkel" from Sea Breathe and it saved me thousands of dollars over the years.

 

[jssailem]

Auqaguard

Aquagard® Waterbased Anti-Fouling Bottom Paint, Contains: Cuprous Oxide ‐ 26.37%

 

[jssailem]

“If you’re doing something then you’re less a party to the problem.” Is a statement often heard.
I wonder what the government’s military ships are doing about the bottoms of the boats. I sail past the USCG ships on my way to the sound, they all use a red ablative paint. Suspect they use a questionable composition, as the shipyards where they paint the ship have all the workers in protective hazmat suits with personal breathing systems.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Suspect they use a questionable composition, as the shipyards where they paint the ship have all the workers in protective hazmat suits with personal breathing systems.

not a bad idea regardless of what the paint it. The carrier fluid is generally more toxic than the copper Infused paint.

 

[Hayden Watson]

On my last paint job, I sanded down the full previous coat and most of the one before that. I used my 6"ø Dewalt sander with a three-stage filter. [ cyclonic, water, paper ] I used the four sheets of 80-grit Abranet and ended up with 30-lbs of dust in the cyclonic plus whatever was in the water filter, and none got to the paper element. I used one N95 dust mask which was still white when I got done except for the fingerprints I put on the surface when I took it off. I was also wearing a white Tee shirt and it was still completely white except for a place on one shoulder where I brushed up against the hull.

I was really amazed at how well the vacuum system worked with the Mirka Abranet paper and how long it stayed sharp and cutting.

 

[adamv]

On my last paint job, I sanded down the full previous coat and most of the one before that. I used my 6"ø Dewalt sander with a three-stage filter. [ cyclonic, water, paper ] I used the four sheets of 80-grit Abranet and ended up with 30-lbs of dust in the cyclonic plus whatever was in the water filter, and none got to the paper element. I used one N95 dust mask which was still white when I got done except for the fingerprints I put on the surface when I took it off. I was also wearing a white Tee shirt and it was still completely white except for a place on one shoulder where I brushed up against the hull.

I was really amazed at how well the vacuum system worked with the Mirka Abranet paper and how long it stayed sharp and cutting.

Yes, I had read that vacuum systems can be very effective - almost effective enough that you dont need a mask (of course you would wear one because why ever not).
TBH though, Im not actually that bothered about this end - its more what the boat is doing to the toxicity of the water that concerns me. If it was just organic copper that was steadily washing off i wouldnt be too concerned but the data sheets for all the paints ive looked at are pretty clear they are harmful to life

Would i be correct in guessing the non toxic ones are best suited to small boats or ones that are regularly hauled and so can be recoated?

 

[Davidasailor26]

data sheets for all the paints ive looked at are pretty clear they are harmful to life

By definition yes antifouling is toxic to life. Whether it’s detrimental to people or marine life depends on how it’s used. The warnings on the data sheets are there to indicate how to use it to minimize harmful effects. There is a tradeoff in using any paint and the report cited above as well as Washington State’s backing away from their previous bans indicates the trade offs continue to favor traditional paint use.

Would i be correct in guessing the non toxic ones are best suited to small boats or ones that are regularly hauled and so can be recoated?

Yes, boats that are kept in cooler water or are hauled more frequently will be less impacted by the downsides of less toxic paint. In the limit boats that are dry sailed do fine with no paint at all. Recoating isn’t necessarily the solution though. Depending on the type of paint that might just be injecting more chemicals into the water. It also means more expense, more product manufactured and shipped, and more build up of paint that will need to be blasted off and put in a landfill sooner. Tradeoffs abound.

 

[jssailem]

Would i be correct in guessing the non toxic ones are best suited to small boats or ones that are regularly hauled and so can be recoated?

That would be a reasonable observation.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

. If it was just organic copper that was steadily washing off i wouldnt be too concerned but the data sheets for all the paints ive looked at are pretty clear they are harmful to life

To state the obvious, “organic copper” and copper are synonymous.
If it is your desire is to use a non-toxic bottom paint, let us know if you find an effective one.

Would i be correct in guessing the non toxic ones are best suited to small boats or ones that are regularly hauled and so can be recoated?

What “non-toxic” paint?

 

[adamv]

What “non-toxic” paint?

This was one of the ones i found: https://auroramarine.ca/vs721-bottom-coat.html
The text implies its only good for one season- of course if you could get 2 seasons or more out of these kind of alternatives then they start to become attractive.

 

[Davidasailor26]

This was one of the ones i found: https://auroramarine.ca/vs721-bottom-coat.html
The text implies its only good for one season- of course if you could get 2 seasons or more out of these kind of alternatives then they start to become attractive.

From the MSDS and other forum posts it looks like that’s some kind of wax. If you try it do report back on how it works.

 

[dlochner]

From the MSDS and other forum posts it looks like that’s some kind of wax. If you try it do report back on how it works.

There seems to be 2 broad classes of anti-fouling coatings, the kill the little suckers approach and the slippery approach. The Aurora marine product falls into the slippery category along with products like PropSpeed and Crystal Prop. The theory behind the product is any growth will slough off when underway. I'm not sure how well that will work on a sailboat at 5 knots. The product literature seems directed to Aluminum pontoon and fishing boats which can go fast enough to slough growth off. Freshwater growth is generally not as tenacious as saltwater growth. Zebra mussels, while prolific, wipe right off the hull which has not been my experience with barnacles. I would not be optimistic about this product in saltwater environment on a slow moving sailboat.

 

[jssailem]

Auqaguard

Aquagard® Waterbased Anti-Fouling Bottom Paint, Contains: Cuprous Oxide ‐ 26.37%