I have recently come into a handful of old sails (5), and tommorow I am going to unroll & measure them to see if I can put them to use. If I can I will likely want to brighten them up a bit .. any good suggestions (methods/products) for doing so? If is mainly mildew & discoloration I am dealing with. Thx in advance. PS - also grabbed some old but solid line, but is a bit rigid .. any suggestions for softening it up would also help.
best method to brighten up an old sail
- Thread starter Vin11979
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Try Sailcare.com
The do a great job but be prepard to spend $$$$. Probably half what a new one will cost.
The do a great job but be prepard to spend $$$$. Probably half what a new one will cost.
washing machine for the line
I have had good results using the automatic washing machine with some fabric softener to restore old stiff lines.
I have had good results using the automatic washing machine with some fabric softener to restore old stiff lines.
Scary
My jib had mildew and after many calls to different lofts and sail companies, I used a bathtub and a solution of 1/4 cup of bleach to each gallon of water. I had heard that bleach would damage it, so I was apprehensive. I let it soak for 2 hours, turning the sail about every 20 minutes. Then I rinsed it repeatedly in the tub to get most of the bleach out. Afterwards I layed it out on the driveway and continued to rince it with a water hose, turned it over several times and kept rinsing until most of the bleach smell was gone. It came out very nice, I was surprised. So far, it looks like the bleach hasn't hurt anything.
My jib had mildew and after many calls to different lofts and sail companies, I used a bathtub and a solution of 1/4 cup of bleach to each gallon of water. I had heard that bleach would damage it, so I was apprehensive. I let it soak for 2 hours, turning the sail about every 20 minutes. Then I rinsed it repeatedly in the tub to get most of the bleach out. Afterwards I layed it out on the driveway and continued to rince it with a water hose, turned it over several times and kept rinsing until most of the bleach smell was gone. It came out very nice, I was surprised. So far, it looks like the bleach hasn't hurt anything.
I'd leave them dirty
I would rather have a stiffer, dirty sail, that a floppy, clean one. While the bleached sail might look spanky, I have to believe the bleach treatment, weakened the fibers and the sail will be more easily chaffed or torn at some later time. This winter I will probably send a sail or two to sailcare.
I would rather have a stiffer, dirty sail, that a floppy, clean one. While the bleached sail might look spanky, I have to believe the bleach treatment, weakened the fibers and the sail will be more easily chaffed or torn at some later time. This winter I will probably send a sail or two to sailcare.
2nd on Oxy Clean
I just purchased a neglected Bucc 22. The main had mold and rust stains all over it. I was able to fit it in my washing machine. I did not run the agitator, but did use the spin cycle to remove water. Soaked once (1/2 hour)and hand turned with Oxy, came out fair. Rinsed and soaked again with Iron Out, this removed the rust stains. Rinsed and soaked a third time with Oxy, rinsed, put in dryer on low. It came out looking like a new sail (mostly, lets not kid ourselves) and it felt crisper than when I started. Also did the Genoa without the Iron Out step. It is yellow and I was afraid that would harm the color. Had the same good results. I have not used them yet, as the boat still needs a lot of work. Therefore I cannot attest to their working condition. Bryon
I just purchased a neglected Bucc 22. The main had mold and rust stains all over it. I was able to fit it in my washing machine. I did not run the agitator, but did use the spin cycle to remove water. Soaked once (1/2 hour)and hand turned with Oxy, came out fair. Rinsed and soaked again with Iron Out, this removed the rust stains. Rinsed and soaked a third time with Oxy, rinsed, put in dryer on low. It came out looking like a new sail (mostly, lets not kid ourselves) and it felt crisper than when I started. Also did the Genoa without the Iron Out step. It is yellow and I was afraid that would harm the color. Had the same good results. I have not used them yet, as the boat still needs a lot of work. Therefore I cannot attest to their working condition. Bryon
glass butterfly
I used to soften stiff old lines by soaking them in a bucket with fabric softner.
I used to soften stiff old lines by soaking them in a bucket with fabric softner.
Two part process....
For WHITE DACRON only. Cautions: DO NOT put sail into a washing machine ... the mechanical action will release/break the plasticizer that is calendered-in between the fibers. Dacron is a 'dirt magnet' so put the sail only on CLEAN surfaces when cleaning/washing. ie. on a clean plastic tarp, otherwise the sail WILL pick up dirt from the surface. Best is to do this ON the boat (but not a boat that has bare teak or bare teak decks as the detergent will also extract the tannins from the teak and transfer them to the dacron. Part1; For mildew, etc. soak the sail in a detergent that is caustic based. Sodium Silicate based detergents seems to work best as they DISSOLVE the mildew and fungus cells. Soak time is important so that you allow time for the mildew/fungal cells to dissolve. On a windless, high humidity, cloudy day .... slowly raise the sail as you spray on the detergetn from a spray bottle. spread the detergent with a long handled *soft* bristle brush as you raise the sail. Immediately drop the sail to deck (cleaned) and cover with a plastic tarp (to prevent the sail from drying) Let soak about 1 hour. Reraise and spray onto the areas that did not get full detergent coverage the first time. Do the opposite side of the sail, drop, cover and let soak about 1 hour. Slowly raise the sail and gently scrub the sail with the long handled brush, both sides. Drop and soak. With a garden hose in hand, slowly raise the sail while rinsing, drop, rinse, drop rinse drop rinse, etc. until ALL detergent is out of the sail. Expect the first rinse to cause VERY dirty water as the crud and mildew cell fragments rinse out of the sail. Most of the mildew/fungus and 'general dirt' will be removed, some shadows of the mildew/fungus will remain. Part2 bleaching and 'iron' stain reduction Can be done ONLY if the part 1 was finished with a thorough rinse and ALL detergent is rinsed out. Do NOT do if detergent/soap bubbles are present in the sail fabric. Get some oxalic acid form a hardware store. Dissolve the oxalic crystals in a bucket of warm water. Add the oxalic then fill with enough water until ALL the oxalic crystals dissolve. Slowly raise the sail while applying the acid mix. Drop to deck and let soak about 15 minutes. Slowly raise and retreat any areas not already bleached. This step will remove almost ALL of any iron stains, tannin (brown) staining, most of 'shadows' left from the mold/mildew removal in part 1. Thoroughly rinse, rinse again and again. Let sail fully dry before folding/furling, etc. Most of the dirt, mildew, artillery fungus (those thousands of teeny black spots), air pollution, iron stains, brown tannin stains will be removed and the sail should look 95% new. Caution: Oxalic acid will quickly absorb through yoiur skin and harm your kidneys .... so wear rubber gloves, foul weather gear, goggles, etc. The best source of Sodium Silicate based detergent is a Marine Market detergent - brand name: Tuff'eNuff. Made by a marine chemical Co. in Florida. Distribution is in most 'good' boat local supply chandleries on the East Coast. WM used to carry it. Stuff is expensive. NOT for laminated sails, NOT for colored dacron ....WHITE woven DACRON ONLY.
For WHITE DACRON only. Cautions: DO NOT put sail into a washing machine ... the mechanical action will release/break the plasticizer that is calendered-in between the fibers. Dacron is a 'dirt magnet' so put the sail only on CLEAN surfaces when cleaning/washing. ie. on a clean plastic tarp, otherwise the sail WILL pick up dirt from the surface. Best is to do this ON the boat (but not a boat that has bare teak or bare teak decks as the detergent will also extract the tannins from the teak and transfer them to the dacron. Part1; For mildew, etc. soak the sail in a detergent that is caustic based. Sodium Silicate based detergents seems to work best as they DISSOLVE the mildew and fungus cells. Soak time is important so that you allow time for the mildew/fungal cells to dissolve. On a windless, high humidity, cloudy day .... slowly raise the sail as you spray on the detergetn from a spray bottle. spread the detergent with a long handled *soft* bristle brush as you raise the sail. Immediately drop the sail to deck (cleaned) and cover with a plastic tarp (to prevent the sail from drying) Let soak about 1 hour. Reraise and spray onto the areas that did not get full detergent coverage the first time. Do the opposite side of the sail, drop, cover and let soak about 1 hour. Slowly raise the sail and gently scrub the sail with the long handled brush, both sides. Drop and soak. With a garden hose in hand, slowly raise the sail while rinsing, drop, rinse, drop rinse drop rinse, etc. until ALL detergent is out of the sail. Expect the first rinse to cause VERY dirty water as the crud and mildew cell fragments rinse out of the sail. Most of the mildew/fungus and 'general dirt' will be removed, some shadows of the mildew/fungus will remain. Part2 bleaching and 'iron' stain reduction Can be done ONLY if the part 1 was finished with a thorough rinse and ALL detergent is rinsed out. Do NOT do if detergent/soap bubbles are present in the sail fabric. Get some oxalic acid form a hardware store. Dissolve the oxalic crystals in a bucket of warm water. Add the oxalic then fill with enough water until ALL the oxalic crystals dissolve. Slowly raise the sail while applying the acid mix. Drop to deck and let soak about 15 minutes. Slowly raise and retreat any areas not already bleached. This step will remove almost ALL of any iron stains, tannin (brown) staining, most of 'shadows' left from the mold/mildew removal in part 1. Thoroughly rinse, rinse again and again. Let sail fully dry before folding/furling, etc. Most of the dirt, mildew, artillery fungus (those thousands of teeny black spots), air pollution, iron stains, brown tannin stains will be removed and the sail should look 95% new. Caution: Oxalic acid will quickly absorb through yoiur skin and harm your kidneys .... so wear rubber gloves, foul weather gear, goggles, etc. The best source of Sodium Silicate based detergent is a Marine Market detergent - brand name: Tuff'eNuff. Made by a marine chemical Co. in Florida. Distribution is in most 'good' boat local supply chandleries on the East Coast. WM used to carry it. Stuff is expensive. NOT for laminated sails, NOT for colored dacron ....WHITE woven DACRON ONLY.
Sail Cleaning
A method I was told but have not tried is to soak sails in a swimming pool for about 2 hrs, rinse with hose and let dry!
A method I was told but have not tried is to soak sails in a swimming pool for about 2 hrs, rinse with hose and let dry!
Sail Care Did a Great Job For me
I used Sail Care for the main and jib for my 27 it cost about 200 a sail and I am very happy. The sails are White and they put some kind of chemical on them to bring back the stiffness. Just my thoughts and feelings Pat
I used Sail Care for the main and jib for my 27 it cost about 200 a sail and I am very happy. The sails are White and they put some kind of chemical on them to bring back the stiffness. Just my thoughts and feelings Pat
Sailcare
I used Sailcare in Pennsylvania. They did a great job on my badly stained O'Day sails. So good in fact, that I sold the boat last week! They have a fall special so the prices aren't terrible. They'll inspect and give you an estimate before doing the work. They'll also tell you if the sails aren't worth the effort.
I used Sailcare in Pennsylvania. They did a great job on my badly stained O'Day sails. So good in fact, that I sold the boat last week! They have a fall special so the prices aren't terrible. They'll inspect and give you an estimate before doing the work. They'll also tell you if the sails aren't worth the effort.
SailCare says no to Bleach
The SailCare site says 'Never, Never' put dacron/polyester sails in a swimming pool. It apparently yellows the sails...... Truth or serving their own purpose??
The SailCare site says 'Never, Never' put dacron/polyester sails in a swimming pool. It apparently yellows the sails...... Truth or serving their own purpose??
Not being a chemist,,,,,,,
I had to rely on common sense. (I know, dangerous) For several dacron sails I've owned since the 70's, I've used laundry detergent and bleach with a soft scrub brush on my CLEAN driveways. When I rebuilt our Hunter, Epitome',(http://epitomesrebuild.com/) the working sails had Caribbean-rust on them. The old standby methods I'd used in the past weren't working to remove the rust. So I reached for my trusty gallon jug of Muriatic Acid. Poured it on the wet stains and stood back. The stains dissolved as I watched. Only took a minute and then I rinsed. (Acid was gone instantly) That was five years ago and they're still fine, but the genoa could use a wash again. One caution; A tab at the toe of the genoa had cotton in part of its' structure. It's not happy. The acid eats cotton. But at least the tab that deteriorated wasn't doing a lot of work. Now to those who look at a dacron sail and see a precision machine that must be treated with the utmost care, consider this; Dacron is the non-stretch version of nylon. Nylon is, for practical purposes, UV impervious. So is cotton. The synthetics are chemical cousins. Muriatic acid and bleach are stored in a nylon container. The acid rinses easily. (it's used in swimming pools) Good stuff, just don't breathe it when it's undiluted. The washing machine method of cleaning sails can easily break down resins that are used to stiffen and stabilize dacron sail cloth. That's why I use my driveway. Now, for a new suite of high tech sails. Alan!? What do you suggest?
I had to rely on common sense. (I know, dangerous) For several dacron sails I've owned since the 70's, I've used laundry detergent and bleach with a soft scrub brush on my CLEAN driveways. When I rebuilt our Hunter, Epitome',(http://epitomesrebuild.com/) the working sails had Caribbean-rust on them. The old standby methods I'd used in the past weren't working to remove the rust. So I reached for my trusty gallon jug of Muriatic Acid. Poured it on the wet stains and stood back. The stains dissolved as I watched. Only took a minute and then I rinsed. (Acid was gone instantly) That was five years ago and they're still fine, but the genoa could use a wash again. One caution; A tab at the toe of the genoa had cotton in part of its' structure. It's not happy. The acid eats cotton. But at least the tab that deteriorated wasn't doing a lot of work. Now to those who look at a dacron sail and see a precision machine that must be treated with the utmost care, consider this; Dacron is the non-stretch version of nylon. Nylon is, for practical purposes, UV impervious. So is cotton. The synthetics are chemical cousins. Muriatic acid and bleach are stored in a nylon container. The acid rinses easily. (it's used in swimming pools) Good stuff, just don't breathe it when it's undiluted. The washing machine method of cleaning sails can easily break down resins that are used to stiffen and stabilize dacron sail cloth. That's why I use my driveway. Now, for a new suite of high tech sails. Alan!? What do you suggest?
Fred, youre close ....
Being a long ago former chemist who used to 'work' polyester in the textile/dye business ..... Its quite impervious to most diluted *inorganic* chemicals, doesnt dye/stain easily (has to be dyed as its being formed ... the dye goes in *before* the polyester fiber is formed), is essentially the same compound as your *polyester* resin fiberglass boat is made from, same polyester fiber structure that your polyester sweater is made from ... and will probably last 500 years if kept out of sunlight, etc. .... white dacron sails are not 'finickly' as to what you use to clean them ... as long as you dont use 'organic' (gasoline, MEK, acetone, etc. etc.) solvents that will soften the base polymer, etc. The stuff is 'going to clean' and will bleach just about any compounds that adhere to the *surface* of the polyester fibers. Your wife KNOWS from experience what can 'clean' and 'bleach' polyester fabric ..... ask her, as she's your local expert !!!!!!!! I think much of the hoodoo and extraordinary 'cautions' are from folks who have a vested interest in 'proprietary' cleaning processes and profit ... and the rest offered is simply myths and mysticisms from the 'timid'. Same arguments apply in cleaning, bleaching *polyester* gel coat, etc. For you your next set of sails .... consider to look at 'cruising laminates' polyester taffeta over a film and polyester taffeta on the other side .... a 'sandwich' of mylar, etc. film on the inside protected (from abrasion) by polyester taffeta on the outside. Non-stretchable, the shape you buy is the shape you get; lighter in weight than woven; still relatively inexpensive ..... but cant be cleaned due to the 'laminate structure'.
Being a long ago former chemist who used to 'work' polyester in the textile/dye business ..... Its quite impervious to most diluted *inorganic* chemicals, doesnt dye/stain easily (has to be dyed as its being formed ... the dye goes in *before* the polyester fiber is formed), is essentially the same compound as your *polyester* resin fiberglass boat is made from, same polyester fiber structure that your polyester sweater is made from ... and will probably last 500 years if kept out of sunlight, etc. .... white dacron sails are not 'finickly' as to what you use to clean them ... as long as you dont use 'organic' (gasoline, MEK, acetone, etc. etc.) solvents that will soften the base polymer, etc. The stuff is 'going to clean' and will bleach just about any compounds that adhere to the *surface* of the polyester fibers. Your wife KNOWS from experience what can 'clean' and 'bleach' polyester fabric ..... ask her, as she's your local expert !!!!!!!! I think much of the hoodoo and extraordinary 'cautions' are from folks who have a vested interest in 'proprietary' cleaning processes and profit ... and the rest offered is simply myths and mysticisms from the 'timid'. Same arguments apply in cleaning, bleaching *polyester* gel coat, etc. For you your next set of sails .... consider to look at 'cruising laminates' polyester taffeta over a film and polyester taffeta on the other side .... a 'sandwich' of mylar, etc. film on the inside protected (from abrasion) by polyester taffeta on the outside. Non-stretchable, the shape you buy is the shape you get; lighter in weight than woven; still relatively inexpensive ..... but cant be cleaned due to the 'laminate structure'.
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