Best hose material to prevent splitting during ice conditions

[jssailem]

I know we should prepare for winter and blow out all lines when temps are likely going to fall below freezing.

But what about the water in a hose to a through hull that you cannot flush or blow the water out when the boat is in the water for winter.

What hose material is best to use in such conditions?

 

[dlochner]

Can you close the seacock and pour some antifreeze into the line?

Or close the seacock and pull the hose off and drain it?

 

[Gunni]

I pour some high-concentration antifreeze into the strainer, sink or raw water hose. It has a slightly higher Specific Gravity than water and mixes to the thru-hull. I quickly cycle the ball valve to work some around the valve. Have had a cheap ball valve fail- it was a hollow ball. GROCO makes solid ball valves.

 

[jssailem]

The through hull needs to be open, unfortunately.
The boat designer piped the scupper drain from the cockpit into the sink drain. I discovered this when I closed the through hull and rain water backed up into the sink and flooded the counter.
Now as we are in to the rain/chill season I am trying to workout new plumbing for the scupper drain. Until I get this work complete I was looking at replacing the hose as a temporary fix.

 

[Gunni]

Those scupper drains are scary - a deck hole into the boat. Any flexible hose is going have more expansion capability than a deck scupper fitting, tee or a thru-hull valve. Here on the frozen coast owners inspect the boat often or haul it.

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi John, sea water never gets that cold around these parts. Perhaps a thin layer of ice at the top during a really cold snap, but that is about it. Keeping a marine grade safe space heater on low will help keep the chill off inside, which is what I do to keep things from freezing up.

In all these years, one time when the old space heater died during a cold snap water that was left in the galley sink and shower spout froze and cracked the spout that I had to replace. Since then I make sure that I let any spout water drain out and I also leave the spigots open when away from the boat.

 

[dlochner]

John,

The freezing temperature of seawater is about 28*. In order for water in your hoses to freeze solid, that is beyond being slushy, the temperature will need to be below 28* for a long time. Water contains a lot of heat that needs to be released before it can freeze solid. Slushy water will probably not be an issue, it is the solid freeze that can be a problem.

The motion of the boat will help to move water around in the hoses which will slow the freezing process. Warmer marina water will enter the hose and colder water will exit the hose.

Thinking about this and Terry's comments, what you need is a remote indicator of when to be concerned. If you live near your boat, i.e., the temperatures you experience at home are similar to those at the boat, a cheap indicator would be a jug of seawater from your marina. Set the jug on your back porch and check after a cold spell, if it is getting slushy or frozen, then a trip to the marina would be in order. Flush the through hulls with some water drawn from the marina and warm the boat a bit.

Remember, any excuse to visit the boat during the off season is a good one.

 

[jssailem]

Understand about the heater. I have one operating while I sweat out the 22 degree nights ahead of my haul out in January.
You just can not imagine my headache when I tracked down the issue. Sink drain and Scupper drain plumbed together and out a through hull.
Rain water is insidious and finds it's way inside the boat. I have been able to keep the boat dry for the most part, but I sometimes feel like the dutch boy with his finger in the dike.

 

[jssailem]

any excuse to visit the boat during the off season is a good one.

And I use it every chance I get. It is not the visit but the 250 mile drive that gets in the way to frequently.

 

[dlochner]

And I use it every chance I get. It is not the visit but the 250 mile drive that gets in the way to frequently.

Ouch! That sucks, a quick trip ends up being a 500 mile journey. Time to move closer to the boat!

 

[jssailem]

Time to move closer to the boat!

Dave... I agree. My Admirable is of a different opinion as the grand kids are 2 hours away. I am afraid the move would be solo and out of the question.

 

[dlochner]

Convince the grandkids that that being on the boat is better than being with their parents. Let's see who follows?

 

[jssailem]

I'll give that a try. They are 4.5 and 1.5 years. Parents are still an important factor. Now when they get a bit older.
That may change.

 

[Will Gilmore]

I have little experience with this issue except in houses. If you have 110ac available, you might consider a home plumbing pipe heater. Available at the local box store or Amazon. It is heat tape that wraps the pipe. Easy to install, not much draw if not heating a lot of pipe.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IKSQ8...=1021897&hvtargid=pla-348962751262&th=1&psc=1

- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Jackdaw]

The boat designer piped the scupper drain from the cockpit into the sink drain. I discovered this when I closed the through hull and rain water backed up into the sink and flooded the counter.

Its funny how these early SoCal boats were seemingly designed without regard for the possibility of freezing or falling leaves.

There is an old axiom that says that 'boats are designed to be sailed near where they were designed'. So true.

 

[Gunni]

sea water never gets that cold around these parts. Perhaps a thin layer of ice at the top during a really cold snap, but that is about it.

The cockpit scupper problem has nothing to do with seawater or temperature of seawater. The problem is that unattended scuppers gather debris that can form an ice blockage, sometimes in a place that splits a deck fitting, an internal tee, or thru-hull, splits the fitting and the next thaw begins an internal flooding. Then there are clogged scuppers that fill the cockpit with water that sink the scupper drains below the WL and the resulting back flooding sinks the boat.

 

[JamesG161]

Considering myself lucky, that you shared some "insider" information about your boat and your climate in a past PM.

Reviewing the nice interior pictures of you boat, believe I can see the scupper cockpit drain lineon the forward cockpit, port side. Assuming I am right, I have the following thoughts:

1) Galley sink top has to be lower than the near bottom of your cockpit. [seacock closed proof]
2) The bottom of the Galley sink is above the Water Level of your boat [seacock open proof]
3) The common drain therefore is under the cabinets and deck boards, most likely laying on inner hull.
4) With your cabin closed, and minimum air flow inside, the lines have no direct exterior air exposure.

Yeah yeah Jim, so what?

The water in your marina is no less than 40°F and my guess nearer 55°F at the coldest [not at surface] but under water, like the submerged hull of your boat.

Therefore...
The cabin of your boat and especially the drain line under the flooring deck, is near the Water Temperatures and essentially "stagnant air insulated"!!

I can safely predict [since I know you are insured]
The lines of concern will NOT Freeze, while you boat is afloat in your marina.
Jim...

PS: The best insulation is Stagnant [ not smelly but mean not moving] Air.