Beneteau PHRF ratings

jgurley · Feb 21, 2015

The "First" series was intended to address the racers. Beneteau has a habit of re-designing their boats every few years, so the model numbers are tweaked. At any given time, they are only building one model in that size range, although the SD,SM,WK is just a keel option. Although my First 38 is sitting on the hard with a for sale sign on it, it became a First 37.5, then a 38s5 etc.

Jackdaw · Feb 21, 2015

As Gurley notes, the FIRST line is intended for racing/cruising, and is faster and more ruggedly built than an equivalent Oceanis model. That is reflected in the PHRF ratings; normally a First of similar length (and vintage!) will be over a minute/mile faster than its Oceanis sister.

Looking them up in the US sailing database can be tricky because the database does not indicate (first). But happily there is little overlap in the model numbers... 235, 260, and 367 are all Firsts. But there are some. 40 is a good example. But the ratings numbers will give it away. A First 40 will rate in the upper 50s? The new Oceanus 40 I'm guessing 130?

They are TOTALLY different lines of boats. Our 367 is 35 feet long. I've raced on a O35. A very nice boat for cruising, but a bit of a dog on the racetrack. As the British say, horses for courses.

Note - In the last 20 years Beneteau has let the First lines run much longer, because the focus on One Design racing. Both the First 40.7 and the First 36.7 ran for 10 years before being replaced with the F35 and F40. Both are similar (but new) designs. The First 260 ran for 20 years (name only change to 25.7) before an updated rig begat the First 25s.

smacklin · Feb 21, 2015

The different suffiix are the variations of the same boat: SM=Standard mast TM=tall mast, DK-deep keel, SD - shoal draft, WK = wing keel , RFM furling main... As example TM / DK will be faster boats.

If you are trying to compare against your Legend 37 -- probably compare against the Beneteau 38 built thru the mid-80s.

The 38s5 was a First model in 88-94 timeframe. The specs between Legend 37 and 38s5 look very similar if standard mast / keel configs.

Look up the boats on sailboatdata to get an idea of the size and performance ratios.

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=2128

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=2157

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=2075

Jackdaw · Feb 22, 2015

Ah, I think Smackln hit on what Sailordel was asking for!!!!

Yes the closest Firsts on vintage and size to your Legend would be the First 38 or the 38s5. If you look up the ratings your boat is a touch faster. Your Legend is a genuinely quick boat.

It is also the reason you have to look at vintage when it comes to comparing sailboat ratings. In general, with better design and technology, boats have become faster over time.

But there is more more thing that plays.

In the 70-80s, the dominant racing rule worldwide was IOR. IOR was a complex, torturous rule that was designed to be gamed by boat designers intent on making their boat seem slower to the rule than it was on the water. That was the whole game.

It was expensive for boat owners, and impossible for manufactures to create a big production line of racer/cruiser that met the rule. So during this time, Beneteaus that raced were of the FIRST CLASS line, dedicated IOR boats. First series became fast cruisers.. Some of them sported interiors done by leading fashion designers.

The First class line was typified by these two boats.

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1116

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=2156

Fast forward to the mid 90s. It takes some time for the market to react, but now the much better IRC racing rule start taking hold. The First line can retake its place the racing Firsts, starting with the .7 line. Current First are over 20/sec a mile faster then the models that preceded them. Progress!

Jackdaw · Feb 23, 2015

sailordel said:
I got some good data from the responses and appreciate people taking time to send them. I am not trying to compare to my boat, I am looking into the rating of a Beneteau that I think is wrong and hoping that if I show the ratings of Beneteaus similar to it, its rating will not "fit the curve" and help justify my case.

Oh even better! ;^) A PHRF ratings dispute!

Can I ask what area, model boat and rating? I'll let you know what I think. PM me if you want. Also look at that your area gives for rating credit. Some give back time for cruiser fabric sails, roller furling, anchors on the bow, less than 150% headsail. Etc.

Another think to think about: How much (on corrected) are you losing to this boat?

Is it just you, or is he crushing the entire fleet?

What is his and your racing background?

A rating change will often be just a few seconds. That does not add up to much on the water. If the difference between your corrected times is over a couple of minutes, that's usually a sailing issue, not a ratings issue.

Sandy Stone · Feb 25, 2015

126 doesn't sound way out of line. My base rating is 126 on the northern Gulf coast, with a shoal draft keel. Like Jackdaw says, it would be unusual for the PHRF committee to hit him more than 3 or 6 seconds, and few races are decided by such a slim margin. As I'm sure you realize, PHRF doesn't care if the boat is extremely well sailed and equipped.