Beneteau First 35s5 downwind

[TButler]

Hi - I am new to sailing and the 1993 Beneteau First 35s5. Upwind sailing came more naturally to me. When the mainsail and genoa are in balance on close haul or close reach, the boat is like a dream. When it is in perfect balance it sails itself.

Downwind is another story as i am still learning. Any suggestions on the position of the mainsail and foresails. I was on a broad reach point of sail with the main and genoa, but the main sail seemed to be covering the genoa, and the genoa was not getting fully pressurized or collapsing frequently at any minor heading change. I appreciate any advice around downwind sailing and optimal positions you have found between the mainsail and genoa? Do you keep the mainsail traveler centered in a close reach / beam reach and let the genoa out in a broad reach or run position? What has worked well for you with the First 35s5 particular fractional rig downwind as far as mainsail and genoa Point of sail and trim downwind? Appreciate any advice.

thanks
Tom

 

[jon hansen]

Sail Trim with Don Guillette

Don Guillette is author of the immensely popular Sail Trim Chart and the companion publication, Sail Trim Users Guide.

forums.sailboatowners.com

buy don's book/ chart to get going on trimming your sails. good info

master that, wanna be a rockstar sailor, read this 20 times.

 

[jon hansen]

can't wait for the books. always set your jib first.

 

[jon hansen]

very simply, in a beat or a reach, the wind flows across the doing that 'lift thing'. in a run, the wind no longer flows past the sails, it just pushes them. so to get the most down wind you want to get the most projected sail area. in a run, set your boom perpendicular to the wind. if it blocks/ blankets the jib, go wing on wing.
running is slow, to go faster downwind, throw up the spinnaker.
"more sail"

 

[Davidasailor26]

Off the wind the boat probably won’t balance the same way that it does on a beat, but it should still be possible to keep the sails full and pulling. If the jib seems blanketed behind the main you may have been going a bit too low. At that point it’s better to come up a little and fill the jib, or go further down and sail wing-on-wing. Until you’re down almost that far it should be possible to trim the sails out and keep the tell tales flying. For the main, once you go down below a close reach the sail will need to go out beyond the end of the traveler, so at that point the traveler position becomes irrelevant, and the mainsheet becomes the way to control the angle of attack. The vang becomes increasingly important to control twist.

 

[jssailem]

Tom. Are you sailing with a purpose or just wandering about?
As an example -
CRUISING:
When I am heading to a specific location that maybe 20 plus miles away, I set my course at the helm first. Bearing 220 on the compass for 7 miles. I then raise or lower sails that will give me the best power/management on that course based on the wind I am seeing or wind I am expecting based on my weather briefing. If this means down wind with calm seas and light to moderate breeze (less than 10 knots) this could mean the main and Genoa or main and spinnaker. I make an initial set of the sails and then trim / adjust the sails to work together yet at their best performance based on wind angle to the boat as I cruise towards my waypoint.

MESSING ABOUT:
When I’m going out to just play about in the bay, I’ll throw up a Sail and see what she will do. The course is not relevant. I focus on the Sail and the wind to carry me where the wind will carry me. Sometimes fast other time slow. This is sailing based on the wind and the feeling of pleasure being carried by it. Perhaps it is just testing a Sail and how the boat responds in different configurations. Trying a main only down wind may give me speed and an easier way of managing the sail but the helm is a lot of work as the boat wants to round up or broach in waves.

Your boat and the sails you have are your tools and different from mine. To get the most from them you need to learn the basic skills either from experimentation, reading the theory, watching others sailing (Crewing), or all three.

The idea of an “Optimum” sail set in a dynamic changing environment is inconsistent. There is no steady breeze. It is an ever changing series of breeze conditions light puffs, strong puffs, light lulls, dead lulls, gusts etc. Optimum for me might be to be lazy and just compromise the Sail position so they are drawing most of the time. Sit back and enjoy the experience. On the other hand if I am racing I’m in constant motion adjusting, Trimming, letting out, changing weight and balance trying to squeeze out every ounce of energy to propel the boat faster to the finish line.

Only you can define your Optimum.

 

[shemandr]

Some sailors think downwind sailing is basically point the bow at your destination and go. You can do that but it could be very slow in light winds. There is a range of sailing angles between 120 degrees and say, 170 degrees in which a sloop will sail poorly. If you aren't sailing high enough the jib will be blanketed by the main and contribute nothing to your speed. Likewise until you get to about 170 degrees you can't sail wing on wing. Maybe higher if you pole the jib out. Don't sail in that range! Either head up to fill the jib or down to sail wing on wing. If that doesn't put you heading for your destination then so be it. At least you'll be moving and not have to contend with a jib flopping around.

 

[JohnShannon]

You should be able to find "polars" for your boat. The optimum downwind angle is not 180 degrees ( a dead run) but some kind of broad reach an you zig zag to your destination. I bet it is just a little before the jib stops pulling. Try going wing on wing or better yet open the big bag of terror and put up a spinnaker.

Here you go ORC sailboat data.

polars for another 35s5 best angle downwind in 12 knots true is 157 degrees after 16 knots just head DDW.

 

[jssailem]

Tom
I am revisiting a great downloadable online book, by Andrew Evans. While it is focused on the skills needed by a solo sailor, his Chapter 7 on Sail trim is a great primer for the question you raise - "Optimum sail set for downwind sailing on the 1993 Beneteau First 35s5".

Andrew has provided (This book is only available as a free download from The Singlehanded Sailing Society at www.sfbaysss.org/tipsbook or through the Cruiser Forum here downloads.php )

 

[CapitalistSailor]

To embellish the excellent discussion so far, when sailing on a broad reach, let the traveler down to the lee side and then let the sail out with the mainsheet, if the leech is twisting off too far or the boom is lifting tighten the boom vang some. Let the mainsail out until the sail luffs or bubbles a little and then pull it back a little. If you have leech telltales you can also use them as a guide as to whether the main is overtrimmed. At some point the sail will be pushing against the spreaders some and that's as far as you can let it out. For the jib on a broad reach, you won't be able to sail much below about 140-155 deg apparent or the sail will be blanketed by the main. Come back up to a little higher heading (less downwind) until the jib starts pulling. In light air it helps to hold the jib sheet (with a wrap around the winch) in your hand to feel the pull.

Wing and wing is faster dead downwind, especially with a whisker pole (a boat pole (in light air) or crew member can be used in a pinch). Just watch for accidental gybes. Near dead downwind, I find I can better feel the wind direction with the hair on the back of my neck than I can see the wind direction with instruments.

When the wind picks up, you may be able to sail more downwind. At over 20-25 knots, you may want to intentionally blanket the jib behind the main during gusts by turning more downwind.