Beneteau 49 - Rudder Tiller (Part 082184) Rust - How big a problem?

[CaptainSV-SecondStar]

Greetings all,

We purchased our 2007 B49 Second Star in late summer 2015 and yesterday (Jan.2, 2016) discovered that my rudder tiller looks like the attached photos. The rust on the rudder tiller appears to be surface (and note that the rudder shaft itself is fiberglass), but boy, there sure is a lot of it. This was not noted on the survey and I did not see this - BUT DID NOT LOOK - before we accepted the boat and then took her offshore to deliver her from Ft Lauderdale to Virginia Beach, VA. I/we have been on the boat several days each month since late September and have performed normal routine cleaning and maintenance. In fact it was in preparing to service the generator that I found this. Embarrassingly , I have no idea how long this has been like this.

I've not yet done any troubleshooting to determine exactly how this part got to this condition - there is not any observable water intrusion into this space; my Northern Lights generator (in sound-shield case) is nearby as is the well for the propane tanks but again, no evidence of standing or leaked/splashed water into the space.

While I continue to seek out the source of the moisture, I'm writing to ask the following:

1. Has anyone else seen/experienced this?

2. Does anyone have any recommendations regarding how to verify that this is surface rust, that the part is (or is not) sound? If possible to recondition it rather that buy a new one ($1,025.00 from Beneteau SpareParts), I'd like to do that IF it is sound.

3. What is the best remedy for the current condition if the existing part is kept in place?


Thanks in advance!

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

I have seen similar on a 2007 Beneteau Oceanis 40. This is the tiller where the autopilot is attached to, right? Nothing to do with the quadrant. You will not loose steering if it breaks. Clearly Beneteau has not used S/S but simple iron. Best thing to do is to remove it, clean it very well and paint it with some antirust paint before puting back. During cleaning (with sand paper) you will easily see if it's a surface problem or something worse.

 

[CaptainSV-SecondStar]

Philip - thanks for responding. Yes, you can see the servo in the background and its attachment point on the horn of the tiller. There is also an attachment point for another, smaller (if memory serves) servo at the horn midpoint. The twin helm steering cables are attached to the quadrant above the tiller, near the top of the rudder tube. This quadrant does not have a bolt/pin through the rudder post to my knowledge but the rudder tiller does.

I thought that this rudder tiller - with a bolt/thick pin through the composite rudder post - is what keeps the shaft from moving/falling down through the opening. Is that not correct? I'm trying to contact Beneteau to see if I can remove it while in the water to address the rust; would sure hate to compound the issue by having the rudder fall out (or add stress to the cables connected to the quadrant above this tiller)!

Thanks again!

 

[CaptainSV-SecondStar]

SO exchanging emails today with the closest Beneteau Dealer/Service folks to me - who have been awesome in getting back to me with questions and recommendations - I am sharing this for others who may find this situation on your own boat. I'll update as things progress and post pictures as I can.

Here is a summation of where I am at the moment:

• the source of the water intrusion causing the corrosion is likely from leakage around the emergency tiller cap and not from water coming up through the rudder post;
• the rust seen in the picture and felt by me is most likely surface rust that does not appear to have undermined the integrity of the rudder tiller;
• the rudder tiller is a part of the auto pilot system and not integral to the manual steerage of the boat, however;
• the rudder tiller incorporates a bolt through the rudder post that keeps the rudder post and attached rudder in the boat (the rudder tiller is supporting the rudder on the bearing immediately below it);
• therefore, removal of the rudder tiller while in the water should NOT be done;
• In advance of the next haulout, clean the (apparent) surface rust off of the tiller with a wire brush and coat/spray with a corrosion inhibitor (WD40 or the like);
• Increase the water integrity of the SS emergency tiller cap through replacing the existing O-ring locally (part not available separately from the cap from Beneteau) and/or adding some silicone sealant to a few threads of the cap;
• At next haulout, after supporting the rudder from below the boat, remove and inspect the rudder tiller and refinish or replace as appropriate;
• At next haulout inspect the rudder and rudder post for signs of delamination. Employ a surveyor if delamination concerns persist.

 

[CloudDiver]

SV Second Star;
Just some observations... (I don't have a boat as big as yours but I have fixed many issues on similar sized vessels and much larger);
- That tiller arm is not 'simple iron'... Its mild steel which is far easier on machine tools to manufacture than Stainless. It also appears galvanized for corrosion protection.
- The amount of rust you see is normal and in no way would effect the strength of the tiller. For those of us that commonly see rust in the Marine environment, what you have would be considered minor surface rust. That part is at least 1/2 inch thick and could continue to rust like that for 30 more years and still be strong enough to do the job.
- It may be true that you have a minor leak from the emergency tiller cap, but maybe not. Moisture is present in the air everywhere you go in the world and anywhere except maybe very dry deserts its enough to flash rust exposed mild steel, but amplified 10x as much in Marine environments. You steerage equipment space appears bone dry, but the air inside is enough to create that minor surface rust over a 10 year period.
- Yes, replace the O ring on the emergency tiller cap but DO NOT use silicone adhesive (sealant) on the threads, use silicone GREASE.
- Yes, use a wire brush to clean up the minor surface rust and you have several options, but WD40 should not be one of them. You can paint it, brush on would be less messy than spraying. There types of rust converting paints, you don't need Interlux, Petit, or other expensive 'marine' brands... Rustoleum works just the same. Better than paint is just to grease it, the same silicone grease I mentioned for the tiller cap threads would work great, but any synthetic waterproof grease is good. It would be good to grease the surface of the tiller stop plate, I'm sure that if the tiller arm is in contact with that plate then its noisy.
- When you haul out, yes, you can remove that tiller arm and have it refurbished, but please for the love of Pete don't pay $1K for a new one. $50 should put a nice powdercoat on it or you can have it regalvanized.

You're probably scratching you're head saying, 'but that's what the authorized factory service center told me!'... One thing you really, really need to understand is that 'Dealers' and 'factory service centers' are not all equally knowledgeable or talented. Not everything they say is B.S., but they don't get everything right and many will jump at the chance to sell you $1K each spare parts you don't really need. BTW, I could have a brand new tiller arm machined for you for about $400, but I'm willing to bet $250 or less because its an easy part from flat stock (catching someone in a good mood on a Saturday with a 12 pack of good beer gets such discounts). If you are willing to spend $1000 to replace the part I'm sure I could actually get it made in 316 Stainless Steel (including the matching tiller stop).

 

[CaptainSV-SecondStar]

What a great reply! Thanks so much!

Just to be clear, the local Beneteau outfit did not try to sell me a new part - they did not even mention it. In my research on possible solutions I researched the part on the Beneteau SpareParts website so that I'd know what that route would cost. Your inputs here - along with those from them and my surveyor (more on that below) - all have helped me see that replacement is a very remote need here.

Again, your inputs here are VERY helpful - thank you! I like your idea about coating it (after using a wire brush to remove the existing rust, and vacuuming it up) with silicone grease or similar to protect it from further corrosion while not 'hiding' it under a coat of paint. Ditto with using silicone grease (not sealant) on the emergency tiller deckplate/cap. Like the idea about powdercoating it.

One previously perplexing thing is that the rudder tiller has this corrosion while the steering quadrant immediately above and closer to the deckplate/cap does not. I was concerned that this difference in corrosion between the two components might indicate water intrusion from below the rudder tiller, up through the cavity that the rudder tube is in, rather than down from the deckplate/cap. Based on your comments this could be explained by differences in the metals used for each and ambient moisture.

I mentioned my surveyor above briefly. He did the survey on this boat for me in July 2015 and the same day I posted this here I sent him an email with the pictures to ask him: Had he noticed this corrosion during the survey and had it in his notes or pictures he did not include in the survey (there was no mention in the survey of rudder tiller corrosion - and I did not notice it myself (shame on me if it was there then))? Did he have any idea how long this might have been going on? Did he have any suggestions about remediation? Believe it or not, he called me last night! He, in essence, told me the same things you just wrote today - treat it but not to worry, very unlikely to need to replace it, etc.

Given all of the inputs I may decide to not haul this spring but to do it next spring - assuming that after I clean and coat it with grease in the near future I don't uncover something else.

Thanks again all and especially Philip and Cloud Diver!

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

The idea of CloudDiver to grease rather than paint the tiller is an excellent one. I always grease the through hull and seacocks of my boat to prevent them from any corrosion (you know that green staff they usually grow after some time). A little marine grease with a glove does the job. It works perfect.

 

[CaptainSV-SecondStar]

Have had some dental issues that have kept me . . . let's just say away from the boat. As soon as I get to this job I'll document and post pics in case someone else has this question or issue.

Great idea about using the silicone grease on the through hull valves.

Looking locally, it seems the best option is to buy some Super Lube (14 oz can) online as none of the marine or auto places here seem to carry anything more than the small tubes.