Does a member have or has converted their yacht to a Cutter rig and their opinion of the conversion / rig
Thanks Garth
Thanks Garth
Beneteau 473
- Thread starter Garth Gregory
- Start date
I help deliver his B-473 from Baltimore, MD to Florida. When he ordered the boat he had several changes made to it. Extra fuel tank, wind generator and a removal stay for the Staysail. As far as I remember it worked well and I wish I had one, like when I had a Caliber. It was installed by Annapolis Yacht Sail about 15+ years ago or so. Meanwhile his boat got sold to a Canadian and my friend past on..
Thanks for the opinion , I appreciate the time taken . I think I will; go ahead with the Cutter conversion , as I intend to undertake more blue water sailing . As a result I have already made a number of changes to my 473 . I have strengthened the rudder system , as I felt it could be improved enormously by fitting a simple support . The system used by Beneteau (on all Beneteau's ) I think is poor and a few yachts have had issues in the past .There are other changes to deck cleats and winch bases , I have made . If anyone is interested , please feel contact me , I will happily pass the details on
I would like to hear more about the rudder support. I have a 2000 B-461 and at that time the hull to deck connection was made with wood screws instead of bolt & Nuts. Also the stanchions should have more then one through bolt. I broke one off. I would love to see pictures if you have some.
Hi Peter , my apologies for a late reply , I have been away ,I don't have a picture ,which is a pity , but I do have the drawings I made for the fabrication .
Attachments
I AM NOT SURE OF CONTINUING THIS THREAD HERE OR BY E:MAIL - BUT HERE GOES -
ALL BENETEAU SEEM TO HAVE THE F/ GLASS RUDDER STOCK FITTED IN A F/GLASS TUBE ,WHICH IS BONDED THROUGH THE HULL AND BRACED BY 4 X 45 DEGREE GUSSETS , WHICH ARE F/G TAPED TO THE TUBE AND THE FLOOR OF THE HULL . I FELT THIS WAS A POOR METHOD . SO TO SUPPORT THE STRUCTURE , I USED A 400 X 400 MM X 8 MM S/STEEL PLATE ( 316) AND WELDED A S/S BUSH IN THE CENTER TO HOUSE A NYLON BUSH , THAT WOULD SUPPORT THE TOP 70 MM OF THE RUDDER STOCK . THE PLATE , I BOLTED AND EPOXIED TO THE UNDERSIDE OF THE DECK . THE BUSH NEEDS TO BE BIGGER TO ACCOMODATE THE ALIGNMENT AND THE EMERGENCY STEERING RING . IN ADDITION THE TOPOF RUDDER STOCK IS NOT PERFECTLY ROUND , BUT HAS AN O/D OF 70MM , SO I FITTED A S/STEEL TUBE (NOT SHOWN IN THE DRAWINGS) , THE TUBE IS 70MM O/D WITH A 2 X MM WALL BY 60 MM LONG . THIS CANNOT BE LARGER THAN THE O/D OF THE STOCK ,OR YOU CANNOT REMOVE THE RUDDER ! - I HAND FILED THE TOP OF THE STOCK TO A TAP FIT OF THE 70 MM TUBE , WHICH I EXPOXIED IN PLACE , THIS ALSO STRENGTHENS THE SQUARE RECESS INTO WHICH THE EMERGENCY STEERING LEVER FITS .
TO FIT THIS I DROPPED THE RUDDER ABOUT 100MM , PLACED THE SQUARE PLATE ON TOP OF THE RUDDER STOCK - LIFTED UP NTHE RUDDER INTO POSITION . THE RUDDER WAS 11MM OFF CENTER AND THE 400X400PLATE , ABOUT 10 MM OFF SQUARE TO THE DECK . I DRILLED THE OUTER 4 X HOLES THROUGH THE DECK AND USED S/S WASHERS AS SPACERS TO COMPENSATE FOR THE ALIGNMENT OF THE DECK AND THEN EPOXIED THE PLATE IN POSITION , ONCE DRY I FITTED THE REMAINING BOLTS . IT HAS REMOVED ALL PLAY IN THE STEERING ( TWIN WHEELS ) , MUCH SMOOTHER . I ALSO FEEL IT IS ENORMOUSLY STRONGER . SOME OF THE THICKNESS OF THE STEEL IS A LITTLE OVER THE TOP BUT , THEY WHERE ALL OFF CUT PIECES .THE NYLON BUSH IS NON ABSORBENT - NOT THAT, THAT IS IMPORTANT . I FEEL THAT THE RUDDER IS IMMENSELY STRONGER , BUT ABOVE ALL , THAT THE RUDDER TUBE IS MUCH LESS LIKELY TO EVER BREAK , CREATING AN ENORMOUS HOLE IN THE HULL . IF ANYONE NEEDS ANYMORE INFO/ DETAIL PLEASE CONTACT ME GARTH PS EXCUSE THE CAPITALS
ALL BENETEAU SEEM TO HAVE THE F/ GLASS RUDDER STOCK FITTED IN A F/GLASS TUBE ,WHICH IS BONDED THROUGH THE HULL AND BRACED BY 4 X 45 DEGREE GUSSETS , WHICH ARE F/G TAPED TO THE TUBE AND THE FLOOR OF THE HULL . I FELT THIS WAS A POOR METHOD . SO TO SUPPORT THE STRUCTURE , I USED A 400 X 400 MM X 8 MM S/STEEL PLATE ( 316) AND WELDED A S/S BUSH IN THE CENTER TO HOUSE A NYLON BUSH , THAT WOULD SUPPORT THE TOP 70 MM OF THE RUDDER STOCK . THE PLATE , I BOLTED AND EPOXIED TO THE UNDERSIDE OF THE DECK . THE BUSH NEEDS TO BE BIGGER TO ACCOMODATE THE ALIGNMENT AND THE EMERGENCY STEERING RING . IN ADDITION THE TOPOF RUDDER STOCK IS NOT PERFECTLY ROUND , BUT HAS AN O/D OF 70MM , SO I FITTED A S/STEEL TUBE (NOT SHOWN IN THE DRAWINGS) , THE TUBE IS 70MM O/D WITH A 2 X MM WALL BY 60 MM LONG . THIS CANNOT BE LARGER THAN THE O/D OF THE STOCK ,OR YOU CANNOT REMOVE THE RUDDER ! - I HAND FILED THE TOP OF THE STOCK TO A TAP FIT OF THE 70 MM TUBE , WHICH I EXPOXIED IN PLACE , THIS ALSO STRENGTHENS THE SQUARE RECESS INTO WHICH THE EMERGENCY STEERING LEVER FITS .
TO FIT THIS I DROPPED THE RUDDER ABOUT 100MM , PLACED THE SQUARE PLATE ON TOP OF THE RUDDER STOCK - LIFTED UP NTHE RUDDER INTO POSITION . THE RUDDER WAS 11MM OFF CENTER AND THE 400X400PLATE , ABOUT 10 MM OFF SQUARE TO THE DECK . I DRILLED THE OUTER 4 X HOLES THROUGH THE DECK AND USED S/S WASHERS AS SPACERS TO COMPENSATE FOR THE ALIGNMENT OF THE DECK AND THEN EPOXIED THE PLATE IN POSITION , ONCE DRY I FITTED THE REMAINING BOLTS . IT HAS REMOVED ALL PLAY IN THE STEERING ( TWIN WHEELS ) , MUCH SMOOTHER . I ALSO FEEL IT IS ENORMOUSLY STRONGER . SOME OF THE THICKNESS OF THE STEEL IS A LITTLE OVER THE TOP BUT , THEY WHERE ALL OFF CUT PIECES .THE NYLON BUSH IS NON ABSORBENT - NOT THAT, THAT IS IMPORTANT . I FEEL THAT THE RUDDER IS IMMENSELY STRONGER , BUT ABOVE ALL , THAT THE RUDDER TUBE IS MUCH LESS LIKELY TO EVER BREAK , CREATING AN ENORMOUS HOLE IN THE HULL . IF ANYONE NEEDS ANYMORE INFO/ DETAIL PLEASE CONTACT ME GARTH PS EXCUSE THE CAPITALS
Thank you for all the info. This is way out of my DIY competence. But I am sure a qualified boat yard would be able to build that, for a price of course...
Thanks again
Peter Breit
s/v Belvedere
Kent Narrows, MD
Thanks again
Peter Breit
s/v Belvedere
Kent Narrows, MD
I actually braced my rudder tube from one of the 45 degree gussets back to the wall with 3/4 epoxied plywood ,then glassed to the wall and tube .I then glassed a piece on top making a shelf. My rudder position sensor sits on top and my EV sensor core is attached to the side, serving 3 purposes. I felt ,when you tighten the steering cables ,this is allot of pressure on the tube that is only held to the floor
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The bits of Stainless Steel ( 316 - Off cuts ) and the Nylon bush cost the equivalent of Euro 150.00 , the Epoxy a little more . I feel that , by supporting the rudder stock , the entire structure is way stronger. In heavy weather , the lateral ( leverage ) load exerted by the rudder blade on the top of the rudder tube , must be substantial . By supporting the top of the stock ( in shear , about 1.25 m above the hull floor ) the load is on the the rudder stock not the tube , failure of the stock is a problem , but failure of the tube is catastrophic . The drawings may look complicated but it is a fairly simple construction and installation .