So .... I need someones help here because despite my best efforts I continue to demonstrate that sometimes I am a complete idiot. Launched the boat last night after a few weekends doing those jobs we all promise to do "one" day ...... Included in my list was replace the fore-stay, back-stay and inner shrouds. Once I had the mast up and went to tighten everything I saw that the 'T' bolt on the fore-stay was bent - this occurs because the turnbuckle does not self align and gets "twisted" as the mast goes up and pulls the fore-stay tight. I have done this before and must be making a mistake in the way I align the turnbuckles before we raise the mast. My mast raising process is: Loosen all turnbuckles to the max open Attach upper and lower shrouds - they provide a safety net and stop the mast from going sideways. Attach the fore-stay Move the mast forward, rest on the pulpit and attach the front tabernacle pin Lift the mast to the vertical position making sure all the turnbuckles are free Insert the rear tabernacle pin Attach the back stay Tighten all stays and shrouds What am I doing wrong? - Is there some secret to this or should I simply disconnect the fore-stay until the mast is up and then attach. I like to have the fore-stay attached because is stops us from pushing the mast back too much. In the past I have also bent the pins on the shrouds. So the question remains - I would be reluctant to raise the mast with the shrouds disconnected - they provide some lateral stability. It's not a big deal ( a new 'T' bolt is about $5 but it is frustrating to have to replace new parts. Thanks in advance for your suggestions and advice. Waiting to get the sails on and .... sail. James O'Day 23 S/V Bognor Limey Bullock's Cove, RI
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I did the same thing the first year
we owned our 23'. I replaced all the "T" bolts. I do not raise my mast from the bow. I attach the upper and lower side stays and the back stay. I do not loosen any of the turnbuckles. I pay very close attention to the turnbuckles as the mast is being raised. I use the mainsheet block and tackle attached to the forestay and bow stem plate. Put my son up front and me in the back. Lay the shrouds out so they don't get hung up. I lift the mast out of the crutch that attaches to the gudgeons, and start walking it up. As I reach the coach roof my son is able to apply tension with the block and tackle. I step up to the coach roof and continue lifting as he begins pulling on the mainsheet. Once the mast is at shoulder height he can literally hoist it into position. I maintain the balance so it doesn't go side to side. Just before the mast reaches plumb vertical I check all the turnbuckles to make sure they are not binding. I am considering using some 3/4" plastic tubing, slit down the side, about 10" long to slip over each turnbuckle to hold them in place during the process. Once the mast is vertical I apply the forward pressure while my son removes the mainsheet tackle and pins the forestay into place. Once the boat is at the slip I fine tune the rigging according to the original O'day specs. Can't say this is the answer but I haven't bent any "T" bolts the last two years.
we owned our 23'. I replaced all the "T" bolts. I do not raise my mast from the bow. I attach the upper and lower side stays and the back stay. I do not loosen any of the turnbuckles. I pay very close attention to the turnbuckles as the mast is being raised. I use the mainsheet block and tackle attached to the forestay and bow stem plate. Put my son up front and me in the back. Lay the shrouds out so they don't get hung up. I lift the mast out of the crutch that attaches to the gudgeons, and start walking it up. As I reach the coach roof my son is able to apply tension with the block and tackle. I step up to the coach roof and continue lifting as he begins pulling on the mainsheet. Once the mast is at shoulder height he can literally hoist it into position. I maintain the balance so it doesn't go side to side. Just before the mast reaches plumb vertical I check all the turnbuckles to make sure they are not binding. I am considering using some 3/4" plastic tubing, slit down the side, about 10" long to slip over each turnbuckle to hold them in place during the process. Once the mast is vertical I apply the forward pressure while my son removes the mainsheet tackle and pins the forestay into place. Once the boat is at the slip I fine tune the rigging according to the original O'day specs. Can't say this is the answer but I haven't bent any "T" bolts the last two years.
James, the list looks correct.
I would add two things. #1 buy 4 spare "T" bolts. You will have them on hand but you will never bend another. They only bend if you don't have a spare... #2 When the mast is about 10 degrees from vertical stop and check all the turnbuckles. Then slowly finish standing it. It you feel any tension there is a problem. If you are not extremely careful you may bend a swag fitting on your shrouds or fore stay. That is more expensive! Hey, a few more "T" bolt and you will have it down pat.
good luck r.w.landau ps. I raise my 25 O'Day mast like steve has described. I like it better also. Besides, with using the main sheet, you can stop anywhere while raising the mast fairly safely except for lateral motion.
I would add two things. #1 buy 4 spare "T" bolts. You will have them on hand but you will never bend another. They only bend if you don't have a spare... #2 When the mast is about 10 degrees from vertical stop and check all the turnbuckles. Then slowly finish standing it. It you feel any tension there is a problem. If you are not extremely careful you may bend a swag fitting on your shrouds or fore stay. That is more expensive! Hey, a few more "T" bolt and you will have it down pat.
good luck r.w.landau ps. I raise my 25 O'Day mast like steve has described. I like it better also. Besides, with using the main sheet, you can stop anywhere while raising the mast fairly safely except for lateral motion.Thanks for your input
Thanks - Steve - I have always raised from the bow because a PO had hit the hatch cover a number of times and the fibreglass shows the evidence! I will review this when I drop the mast - Do you drop it in a reverse of your method to raise it? When I drop the mast I attach a sheet to the triangle plate and through the genoa blocks and I can lower the mast slowly by paying out the line with one person. r.w. - as always sage advice. I was planning on buying the extras when I get the replacement but had not through through the consequences of adding them to the inventory of spare parts, based on my own experience I'm sure that as soon as I put a solution in place it will never happen again. Again - thanks James
Thanks - Steve - I have always raised from the bow because a PO had hit the hatch cover a number of times and the fibreglass shows the evidence! I will review this when I drop the mast - Do you drop it in a reverse of your method to raise it? When I drop the mast I attach a sheet to the triangle plate and through the genoa blocks and I can lower the mast slowly by paying out the line with one person. r.w. - as always sage advice. I was planning on buying the extras when I get the replacement but had not through through the consequences of adding them to the inventory of spare parts, based on my own experience I'm sure that as soon as I put a solution in place it will never happen again. Again - thanks James
Done that too
I bent one of my shrouds my first year of owning the 23 also. Really just came down to inexperiance of not knowing better. We have it ingrained into our proceedure now to pause for a bit a couple of times on the way up to check the shrouds turnbuckels and everything else before we snap it into final position. Have only done it the one time, however we are quite capable of doing it again. We lower our mast aft. We take out the front bolt, leave the back bolt as hinge and drop the mast toward and over the stern into its cradle using a gin pole hooked to a 3-1 block and tackle. The only turnbuckle we ease is the forestay. The rest I do not touch. After the mast is down we walk it forward and tie it up to the pulpit. I leave all the stays attached and bunchee cord them around the mast in a nice neat package. Enjoy the boat Scott
I bent one of my shrouds my first year of owning the 23 also. Really just came down to inexperiance of not knowing better. We have it ingrained into our proceedure now to pause for a bit a couple of times on the way up to check the shrouds turnbuckels and everything else before we snap it into final position. Have only done it the one time, however we are quite capable of doing it again. We lower our mast aft. We take out the front bolt, leave the back bolt as hinge and drop the mast toward and over the stern into its cradle using a gin pole hooked to a 3-1 block and tackle. The only turnbuckle we ease is the forestay. The rest I do not touch. After the mast is down we walk it forward and tie it up to the pulpit. I leave all the stays attached and bunchee cord them around the mast in a nice neat package. Enjoy the boat Scott
Avoiding "T-Bolt" Damage
Here's how we solved this problem on my O'Day 240 which has the upper and lower shrouds (And their turnbuckles with "T-bolts") paired at an on-deck casting that's the chain-plate system: Before raising or lowereing the mast, simply bind the pair of turnbuckles together with light-weight cord -- hemp twine is sufficient to do the job. This keeps the turnbuckles from flopping outboard or inboard -- the usual cause of damage to the T-bolts. After tying the pairs, when raising the mast, lay each pair in the logical direction, fore or aft along the deck,for the shrouds to swing up without binding. They sould be self-tending when lowering the mast.
Here's how we solved this problem on my O'Day 240 which has the upper and lower shrouds (And their turnbuckles with "T-bolts") paired at an on-deck casting that's the chain-plate system: Before raising or lowereing the mast, simply bind the pair of turnbuckles together with light-weight cord -- hemp twine is sufficient to do the job. This keeps the turnbuckles from flopping outboard or inboard -- the usual cause of damage to the T-bolts. After tying the pairs, when raising the mast, lay each pair in the logical direction, fore or aft along the deck,for the shrouds to swing up without binding. They sould be self-tending when lowering the mast.
- Jan 22, 2008
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as others have mentioned using
one inch white tubing that also acts as a chafing guard against the shrouds for the jib and genny. These just happen to fit quite snugly over the chainplate thereby keeping the T-bolt, turnbuckle, and shroud all upright. The only other thing I do different is that instead of a block an tackle, I add a 75 foot line to my jib halyard and have someone walk WAY forward with it. The boat is still on the trailer and on the hard at this time. I then walk it up, with the same 'stop and look' precautions mentioned by others. The far someone at the end of the line keeps tension as the mast is raised, then holds it in positon as the forestay pin is put in place. The backstay and shrouds keep the mast in line otherwise.
one inch white tubing that also acts as a chafing guard against the shrouds for the jib and genny. These just happen to fit quite snugly over the chainplate thereby keeping the T-bolt, turnbuckle, and shroud all upright. The only other thing I do different is that instead of a block an tackle, I add a 75 foot line to my jib halyard and have someone walk WAY forward with it. The boat is still on the trailer and on the hard at this time. I then walk it up, with the same 'stop and look' precautions mentioned by others. The far someone at the end of the line keeps tension as the mast is raised, then holds it in positon as the forestay pin is put in place. The backstay and shrouds keep the mast in line otherwise.
Mine bent too, what size are they?
Last weekend we tried the built-in mast raising system (triangular plates in side stays & using boom) on my O'Day 25. I read this post before doing it. As per one of the suggestions, I tied the side stays together and that seemed to work. Unfortunately, I didn't think about the forestay. Needless to say, it bent the T-bolt. I found that other than that, it worked great. For taking the mast down, we added some line wound around the front pulpit to add as a pad as the mast is slid back. We also learned that if you tie the side lines (from boom to triangular plates) too tight when lowering the mast, you can't untie them easily when it is lowered (they are then too high to reach to untie when down). When raising the mast, this wouldn't be a problem but you need to know the proper length for the topping lift so that the boom makes a proper 90 degree angle when set at the lower gooseneck on the mast. So we marked the lengths with a magic marker. Since the boat is at the marina, and I am not, but need to replace the T-bolt, does anyone know what size they (part #'s would be helpful) are for a standard 1980 O'Day 25? Thanks, sPk
Last weekend we tried the built-in mast raising system (triangular plates in side stays & using boom) on my O'Day 25. I read this post before doing it. As per one of the suggestions, I tied the side stays together and that seemed to work. Unfortunately, I didn't think about the forestay. Needless to say, it bent the T-bolt. I found that other than that, it worked great. For taking the mast down, we added some line wound around the front pulpit to add as a pad as the mast is slid back. We also learned that if you tie the side lines (from boom to triangular plates) too tight when lowering the mast, you can't untie them easily when it is lowered (they are then too high to reach to untie when down). When raising the mast, this wouldn't be a problem but you need to know the proper length for the topping lift so that the boom makes a proper 90 degree angle when set at the lower gooseneck on the mast. So we marked the lengths with a magic marker. Since the boat is at the marina, and I am not, but need to replace the T-bolt, does anyone know what size they (part #'s would be helpful) are for a standard 1980 O'Day 25? Thanks, sPk
Bending "T" fittings
James, "T" fittings can get bent very easy, even on my rig. I find myself keeping a close watch on all my fittings as the mast is being raised. Because I am raising my mast from the aft position, I find it helpful to put a bungee cord on my back stay from my stern pulpit to keep it stretched out so it doesn't get kinked. I arrange my side stays so that the stays are laying against the cabin and will come up straight as the mast is being raised. The best thing about using the Gin Pole is; You can get your mast up very slow, and you can also stop the mast in any position and lock it off right there, and walk over to a potential trouble spot and straighten it out before you continue on with the mast raising. Have I ever bent a "T" fitting? Absolutely. I just replaced one on my Upper Starboard chain plate not too long ago. I bent it years ago, and just recently decided to replace it when I brought my boat down to Rudy's to have him rivet a tang to my mast. It was easy to match it up by taking the "T" fitting off and checking it with one of the turnbuckles in Rudy's store. Some fittings are left hand thread and some are right hand thread, but I was able to match it up and install the new one on the spot. I think that the whole secret of keeping your "T" fittings from bending, is to take the mast up slow and watch everything including the "T" fitting in the mast slots. Even with the little rubber wedges that prevent the "T" fittings from popping out of the slots in my mast, the "T" fittings can still get cockeyed and bend. Joe
James, "T" fittings can get bent very easy, even on my rig. I find myself keeping a close watch on all my fittings as the mast is being raised. Because I am raising my mast from the aft position, I find it helpful to put a bungee cord on my back stay from my stern pulpit to keep it stretched out so it doesn't get kinked. I arrange my side stays so that the stays are laying against the cabin and will come up straight as the mast is being raised. The best thing about using the Gin Pole is; You can get your mast up very slow, and you can also stop the mast in any position and lock it off right there, and walk over to a potential trouble spot and straighten it out before you continue on with the mast raising. Have I ever bent a "T" fitting? Absolutely. I just replaced one on my Upper Starboard chain plate not too long ago. I bent it years ago, and just recently decided to replace it when I brought my boat down to Rudy's to have him rivet a tang to my mast. It was easy to match it up by taking the "T" fitting off and checking it with one of the turnbuckles in Rudy's store. Some fittings are left hand thread and some are right hand thread, but I was able to match it up and install the new one on the spot. I think that the whole secret of keeping your "T" fittings from bending, is to take the mast up slow and watch everything including the "T" fitting in the mast slots. Even with the little rubber wedges that prevent the "T" fittings from popping out of the slots in my mast, the "T" fittings can still get cockeyed and bend. Joe
T bolt part #
I picked up a new T-Bolt to replace the one I bent. FYI, the one I picked up at West Marine was made by Johnson. Johnson's part #is 33-616. It is 1/4 an has left hand threads. It was $10. I've added WM's link to the part. sPk
I picked up a new T-Bolt to replace the one I bent. FYI, the one I picked up at West Marine was made by Johnson. Johnson's part #is 33-616. It is 1/4 an has left hand threads. It was $10. I've added WM's link to the part. sPk
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