A couple of months back, some of us were discussing insurance rates post the hurricane season. Well, I got my insurance renewal yesterday, and as expected, the rates went up approximately 10 percent. That wasn't too bad considering, but the kicker was that there are a bunch of new exclusions concerning named storms and limiting the liability of the insurance company. Looks like you folks in Florida and all other coastal areas in hurricane alley had better get an early run for the ICW the next time you hear the National Weather Service give a name to a cloud. For you folks that haven't received a renewal on your insurance yet, you had better pay real close attention to the fine print when you get it. Sorry Florida, looks like it's just getting better for you *sry!!
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that's quite a double whammy
10% rate bump... AND hurricane exclusion. if the rate hike isn't born of hurricane risk, what the heck is it about? I have to say, though, the "named store" angle is pretty clever. By using that they don't have to come up with a definition of a bad storm.
10% rate bump... AND hurricane exclusion. if the rate hike isn't born of hurricane risk, what the heck is it about? I have to say, though, the "named store" angle is pretty clever. By using that they don't have to come up with a definition of a bad storm.
Unfortunately, I suspect a lot of owners
brought it on themselves...and took the rest with them. There's a new breed of owners who don't know the first thing about how to protect their boats from storms and see no reason to learn how...'cuz "that's what insurance is for." All you have to do is look at the post-storm photos of damaged boats to see what I'm talking about..starting with number whose owners didn't even bother to take the sails off or re-tie their boats with stronger heavier lines, much less try to move 'em out of harm's way into hurricane holes...They did nothing but cross their fingers and hope. And now every boat owner in FL--competent AND incompetent--is not only forced to pick up a large part of the tab to repair/replace their boats, but also to absorb more of the risk to their own boats.
brought it on themselves...and took the rest with them. There's a new breed of owners who don't know the first thing about how to protect their boats from storms and see no reason to learn how...'cuz "that's what insurance is for." All you have to do is look at the post-storm photos of damaged boats to see what I'm talking about..starting with number whose owners didn't even bother to take the sails off or re-tie their boats with stronger heavier lines, much less try to move 'em out of harm's way into hurricane holes...They did nothing but cross their fingers and hope. And now every boat owner in FL--competent AND incompetent--is not only forced to pick up a large part of the tab to repair/replace their boats, but also to absorb more of the risk to their own boats.
Insurance Woes
There's a well-written article in the July issue of BOAT US magazine's January issue on page 16 titled "Storms Spawn Damage Dilemma" which examines the issues related to boat and marina damage from storms. I was in Sarasota, FL after the hurricanes and saw many boats washed up on shore - they had been left at anchor right in unprotected bays. Some indeed had sails still on rollers. Amazing.
There's a well-written article in the July issue of BOAT US magazine's January issue on page 16 titled "Storms Spawn Damage Dilemma" which examines the issues related to boat and marina damage from storms. I was in Sarasota, FL after the hurricanes and saw many boats washed up on shore - they had been left at anchor right in unprotected bays. Some indeed had sails still on rollers. Amazing.
Rates up in other areas as well
I was rather disappointed to receive my renewel from BoatUS last month only to see a substantial increase - more than 10% if I recall - "due to substatial losses in the area". Heck, I live in Seattle! Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
I was rather disappointed to receive my renewel from BoatUS last month only to see a substantial increase - more than 10% if I recall - "due to substatial losses in the area". Heck, I live in Seattle! Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
You are right on Peggie
My boat survived a huricane many years ago by working very hard the day before the hurricane hit. Every sail was taken down below. I had double lines out and had an anchor out fore and aft. That was after I scouted out a hurricane hole years before. This year I was tied up in a canal with double lines and all was well.
My boat survived a huricane many years ago by working very hard the day before the hurricane hit. Every sail was taken down below. I had double lines out and had an anchor out fore and aft. That was after I scouted out a hurricane hole years before. This year I was tied up in a canal with double lines and all was well.
Not all wrecked boats were insured
I can tell you that those boats that washed up in Sarasota were uninsured and did not contribute to the insurance hikes. Many were abandoned derelicts, or absentee owned, and others belonged to people who used them as homes but had no idea how to handle them. Not one of them would've been valued over $10k, and most were probably uninsurable. I've lived in that anchorage and helped a friend prepare her 30' Hunter for the storms. We stripped the deck and sails and decided not to move the boat because it was tucked in close enough to be relatively shielded and had a mooring that we could trust. I thought about putting out more anchors, but knew from experience that our biggest risk was from boats coming at us and decided not to put out a web to catch them. The most prevalent problem out there, in addition to leaving sails on, was lack of chafe protection. I'm not sure which storm's aftermath you saw, but a few boats that survived the beaching were the same ones to come ashore during the next blow...some people never learn.
I can tell you that those boats that washed up in Sarasota were uninsured and did not contribute to the insurance hikes. Many were abandoned derelicts, or absentee owned, and others belonged to people who used them as homes but had no idea how to handle them. Not one of them would've been valued over $10k, and most were probably uninsurable. I've lived in that anchorage and helped a friend prepare her 30' Hunter for the storms. We stripped the deck and sails and decided not to move the boat because it was tucked in close enough to be relatively shielded and had a mooring that we could trust. I thought about putting out more anchors, but knew from experience that our biggest risk was from boats coming at us and decided not to put out a web to catch them. The most prevalent problem out there, in addition to leaving sails on, was lack of chafe protection. I'm not sure which storm's aftermath you saw, but a few boats that survived the beaching were the same ones to come ashore during the next blow...some people never learn.
It's Sad
that all of us should pay for the irresponsibility of a few. And for the folks who did everything they could and still got nailed, we're truly sorry. We have a large group of our members in Punta Gorda, and some have had their boats survive, while their houses were totaled. I wonder what the house insurance rates are doing, and why, if not so adjusted, are boaters being scammed for higher every-things. And the fact that people who have had boats land on their shores are taking the incredible steps of hassling the people who've lost their boats only makes me think that the lawyers have gone too far. And I'll bet they're not the class action lawyers that are being railed at in DC, they're the corporate greedy types. The corporate marina managers are coming in a close second. Stu
that all of us should pay for the irresponsibility of a few. And for the folks who did everything they could and still got nailed, we're truly sorry. We have a large group of our members in Punta Gorda, and some have had their boats survive, while their houses were totaled. I wonder what the house insurance rates are doing, and why, if not so adjusted, are boaters being scammed for higher every-things. And the fact that people who have had boats land on their shores are taking the incredible steps of hassling the people who've lost their boats only makes me think that the lawyers have gone too far. And I'll bet they're not the class action lawyers that are being railed at in DC, they're the corporate greedy types. The corporate marina managers are coming in a close second. Stu
Tim
Mine had the same sort of "clap trap" in it as yours did. I guess they mean by "your area", the entire United States. I'm 400 miles up the Tombigbee Waterway and have never filed a claim. The entire boating community is going to pay to keep their profits up. Insurance, can't live with it and can't live without it. They love you when your sending in premiums and this rate hike was anticipated, but they are getting kind of cute with the named storm business. I hope they never start giving names to tornados, that's about the only weather threat around here.
Mine had the same sort of "clap trap" in it as yours did. I guess they mean by "your area", the entire United States. I'm 400 miles up the Tombigbee Waterway and have never filed a claim. The entire boating community is going to pay to keep their profits up. Insurance, can't live with it and can't live without it. They love you when your sending in premiums and this rate hike was anticipated, but they are getting kind of cute with the named storm business. I hope they never start giving names to tornados, that's about the only weather threat around here.
Unbelievable-Hurricane Prep Experts!!!!!
Wow, we have sailors in San Fran, Seattle, Las Vegas and where ever Peggie is from offering tips on hurricane preparation. Please explain what you would have done to prepare the condo's, homes, apartments, and businesses that were damaged. How about the Ft Pierce City marina where all those damaged boat were tied up to docks and the 14' tide surge and 120 MPH winds destroyed those floating docks and everything tied to them. Stu, how would YOU have prepared your boat for THAT? Scouting out a hurricane hole? Have you been to South Florida? If you recall, both Frances and Jeanne covered about about 300 miles on the outter bands and the eye wall of both hurricanes were 50-75 miles across. Please tell me how you would have prepared your boat to handle all this unknown until the moments just before the storm made land fall. And one more thing. How would you have moved your boat when all on the bridges were locked down 24 hours before they were even sure where the point of land fall was, in order to evacuate people living on the islands? Sorry you all have experienced some rate hikes in your insurance cost because of all us dummy's down here in Florida.
Wow, we have sailors in San Fran, Seattle, Las Vegas and where ever Peggie is from offering tips on hurricane preparation. Please explain what you would have done to prepare the condo's, homes, apartments, and businesses that were damaged. How about the Ft Pierce City marina where all those damaged boat were tied up to docks and the 14' tide surge and 120 MPH winds destroyed those floating docks and everything tied to them. Stu, how would YOU have prepared your boat for THAT? Scouting out a hurricane hole? Have you been to South Florida? If you recall, both Frances and Jeanne covered about about 300 miles on the outter bands and the eye wall of both hurricanes were 50-75 miles across. Please tell me how you would have prepared your boat to handle all this unknown until the moments just before the storm made land fall. And one more thing. How would you have moved your boat when all on the bridges were locked down 24 hours before they were even sure where the point of land fall was, in order to evacuate people living on the islands? Sorry you all have experienced some rate hikes in your insurance cost because of all us dummy's down here in Florida.
Go Darrel
Florida is not the only one that was affected by bad weather,what about out west with all the floods and mud. I think us new yorkers should get a rebate from insurance,whats a few stollen cars got to do with rates going up. nick
Florida is not the only one that was affected by bad weather,what about out west with all the floods and mud. I think us new yorkers should get a rebate from insurance,whats a few stollen cars got to do with rates going up. nick
Well, Darrell...
I wouldn't have waited till the last 24 hours to do anything...hurricanes don't blow up all of a sudden, they waltz around the oceans for days--even weeks--which allows plenty of time to move a boat far enough up a river to be out of harm's way...or at the very least gives owners plenty of time to take sails, electronics and everything else they can carry off the boat, even if they can't move the boat--reducing the value of a claim if the boat is lost by thousands of $$. What about all the powerboats whose owners did nothing...24-48 hours is plenty of time to move a boat capable of travelling at 30-40 mph to relative safety--and many can get under bridges...so what's their excuse for doing nothing? No...hurricanes don't always come ashore where they're predicted to...but better to be prepared for a bullet and be lucky enough to dodge it than do nothing. Unfortunately, too many people would rather let their insurance assume all the risk than take any responsibility themselves. As for increased insurance rates in the PNW...I suspect you can blame powerboats for at least some of it. There was a recent thread on a powerboat site I visit about all the logs and deadheads in the waters, and how especially bad they are this year following the storms--how hard they are to see, making it all but impossible to avoid hitting 'em while running on plane at 25-30 mph...but slowing down was out of the question..."that's why we have insurance." So you're paying for them too. And btw, Darrell...living inland doesn't mean living in a vacuum.
I wouldn't have waited till the last 24 hours to do anything...hurricanes don't blow up all of a sudden, they waltz around the oceans for days--even weeks--which allows plenty of time to move a boat far enough up a river to be out of harm's way...or at the very least gives owners plenty of time to take sails, electronics and everything else they can carry off the boat, even if they can't move the boat--reducing the value of a claim if the boat is lost by thousands of $$. What about all the powerboats whose owners did nothing...24-48 hours is plenty of time to move a boat capable of travelling at 30-40 mph to relative safety--and many can get under bridges...so what's their excuse for doing nothing? No...hurricanes don't always come ashore where they're predicted to...but better to be prepared for a bullet and be lucky enough to dodge it than do nothing. Unfortunately, too many people would rather let their insurance assume all the risk than take any responsibility themselves. As for increased insurance rates in the PNW...I suspect you can blame powerboats for at least some of it. There was a recent thread on a powerboat site I visit about all the logs and deadheads in the waters, and how especially bad they are this year following the storms--how hard they are to see, making it all but impossible to avoid hitting 'em while running on plane at 25-30 mph...but slowing down was out of the question..."that's why we have insurance." So you're paying for them too. And btw, Darrell...living inland doesn't mean living in a vacuum.
Peggie
Peggie, I have no doubt about your ability to flush toilets, but you didn't quite get my point. The pictures of the boats, buildings, homes, condos and such that you saw damaged happened to be on ground zero. Nothing would have saved them from a direct hit. As far as preping a boat more than 24 hours before the storm, once again you didn't grasp what I was saying. Hurricane prep doesn't begin and end with boats. When you start talking about the safety of people, homes, building, places of employment, boats take a lower priority. And, when was the last time you where in South Florida? How many boats do you think can be crammed into the few hurricane holes that might possibly be found? To blame the damage that occurred in Florida to all the boats, and property on poor hurricane prep or slow response is an insult to the folks that took the approiate action and lived through those events,and demonstrates your lack of knowledge, understanding, and sensativity.
Peggie, I have no doubt about your ability to flush toilets, but you didn't quite get my point. The pictures of the boats, buildings, homes, condos and such that you saw damaged happened to be on ground zero. Nothing would have saved them from a direct hit. As far as preping a boat more than 24 hours before the storm, once again you didn't grasp what I was saying. Hurricane prep doesn't begin and end with boats. When you start talking about the safety of people, homes, building, places of employment, boats take a lower priority. And, when was the last time you where in South Florida? How many boats do you think can be crammed into the few hurricane holes that might possibly be found? To blame the damage that occurred in Florida to all the boats, and property on poor hurricane prep or slow response is an insult to the folks that took the approiate action and lived through those events,and demonstrates your lack of knowledge, understanding, and sensativity.
BOTTOM LINE
Sure doesn’t take much to get some of you folks off ‘n’ running!!! Bottom line: If I own a car that’s at the top of the most likely to be stolen list, shouldn’t I pay a higher insurance premium? If I own a gasoline powered boat that has a higher chance of on board fires and explosions than a diesel, shouldn’t I pay a higher insurance premium? If I live in an area prone to high wind and water damage, shouldn’t I pay a higher insurance premium? If I have a driving record filled with moving violations, shouldn’t I pay a higher insurance premium? If I have a 26ft power boat capable of speeds of 50mph or more, shouldn’t I pay higher insurance premiums than my dock mate who has a 26ft sailboat that can’t do 10mph? If I live along the banks of the Mississippi, shouldn’t I pay higher flood insurance premiums than the person living high and dry? If I smoke, shouldn’t I pay higher health insurance premiums than a non-smoker? If I have younger drivers operating the family car(s), shouldn’t I pay higher premiums than a family without? Most insurance companies are in business to make a profit and most of them do a very good job of it. Premiums are normally based on risk. They should be levied to the policy holders exposed to the risk! Paul s/v The Lord Nelson
Sure doesn’t take much to get some of you folks off ‘n’ running!!! Bottom line: If I own a car that’s at the top of the most likely to be stolen list, shouldn’t I pay a higher insurance premium? If I own a gasoline powered boat that has a higher chance of on board fires and explosions than a diesel, shouldn’t I pay a higher insurance premium? If I live in an area prone to high wind and water damage, shouldn’t I pay a higher insurance premium? If I have a driving record filled with moving violations, shouldn’t I pay a higher insurance premium? If I have a 26ft power boat capable of speeds of 50mph or more, shouldn’t I pay higher insurance premiums than my dock mate who has a 26ft sailboat that can’t do 10mph? If I live along the banks of the Mississippi, shouldn’t I pay higher flood insurance premiums than the person living high and dry? If I smoke, shouldn’t I pay higher health insurance premiums than a non-smoker? If I have younger drivers operating the family car(s), shouldn’t I pay higher premiums than a family without? Most insurance companies are in business to make a profit and most of them do a very good job of it. Premiums are normally based on risk. They should be levied to the policy holders exposed to the risk! Paul s/v The Lord Nelson
Darrel
Noticed that nobody from Seattle offered any tips on hurricane preparation. What I did notice was people from areas of the country not prone to - or should I say - with a know history of - or with a proven high probability of every year, year after year - extreme weather related damage to their boats having to share the burden of insuring said risk takers. Choose to live in a flood prone area or a steep hillside waiting to slide with the next rain - because it has a beautiful view, or a nice climate (most of the year)? - Then pay the whole cost of living there which includes the nearly yearly high potential to property damage due to known, predictable conditions. Don't ask the rest of us to help subsidize living in those dangerous areas. TB
Noticed that nobody from Seattle offered any tips on hurricane preparation. What I did notice was people from areas of the country not prone to - or should I say - with a know history of - or with a proven high probability of every year, year after year - extreme weather related damage to their boats having to share the burden of insuring said risk takers. Choose to live in a flood prone area or a steep hillside waiting to slide with the next rain - because it has a beautiful view, or a nice climate (most of the year)? - Then pay the whole cost of living there which includes the nearly yearly high potential to property damage due to known, predictable conditions. Don't ask the rest of us to help subsidize living in those dangerous areas. TB
My rates didn't go up much and they shouldn't have
I've had no claims in all the years I've owned boats (knock on wood ...knock....knock....knock.... !! no jinxes here !) and I didn't see my rates going up anything that I would really notice (Boat is on Long Island Sound) And you know what It shouldn't have!! I'd be very pissed at my insurance company for making me pay when I am in a relatively safe zone. (its all relative) People in Iowa are not charged unreasonably high rates for car theft insurance as compared to Jersey City NJ or NY City, so why should I be supplementing your boat insurance for living and sailing in Paradise
Its about actuarials and I don't even think Millions and Millions of our tax dollars should be used to keep the the beaches up in certain areas on the East coast just so some fat rich millionaire can keep his beach front home in tact. To me thats BS, let THEM pay for it ;{
I've had no claims in all the years I've owned boats (knock on wood ...knock....knock....knock.... !! no jinxes here !) and I didn't see my rates going up anything that I would really notice (Boat is on Long Island Sound) And you know what It shouldn't have!! I'd be very pissed at my insurance company for making me pay when I am in a relatively safe zone. (its all relative) People in Iowa are not charged unreasonably high rates for car theft insurance as compared to Jersey City NJ or NY City, so why should I be supplementing your boat insurance for living and sailing in Paradise
Its about actuarials and I don't even think Millions and Millions of our tax dollars should be used to keep the the beaches up in certain areas on the East coast just so some fat rich millionaire can keep his beach front home in tact. To me thats BS, let THEM pay for it ;{
When was I in So. FL last?
At least a couple of times a year for most of my life....Ft. Myers about a month before the hurricanes...Melbourne a few months before that...and I'll be in St. Pete next month for most of a week on a consulting job. My grandparents were in West Palm Beach...spent a LOT of summers there as a kid. My husband's family was in Sarasota...we spent a lot of time there too...our last to FL trip together was when I scattered his ashes in the Gulf. But FL is not the only place where hurricanes happen....I was on Cape Cod when Bob struck there in '91...so I've even been through one. And was in Charleston right before AND right after Hugo. Ever seen a tornado, Darrell? I have...twice--one that took out a dock at my YC, and another that took out two trees in my yard, one of which also took the deck off my house. I've also actually watched a microburst pick up a small dock and flip it over. Those are things that really are impossible to prepare for.
At least a couple of times a year for most of my life....Ft. Myers about a month before the hurricanes...Melbourne a few months before that...and I'll be in St. Pete next month for most of a week on a consulting job. My grandparents were in West Palm Beach...spent a LOT of summers there as a kid. My husband's family was in Sarasota...we spent a lot of time there too...our last to FL trip together was when I scattered his ashes in the Gulf. But FL is not the only place where hurricanes happen....I was on Cape Cod when Bob struck there in '91...so I've even been through one. And was in Charleston right before AND right after Hugo. Ever seen a tornado, Darrell? I have...twice--one that took out a dock at my YC, and another that took out two trees in my yard, one of which also took the deck off my house. I've also actually watched a microburst pick up a small dock and flip it over. Those are things that really are impossible to prepare for.
Thanks Darrel!
Well put! Last hurricane season was certainly one for the record books and to say anyone brought any damage or loss on themselves just isn't fair. How many named storms were there last year? And without looking, I'll bet more than half of them were targeting the S.E. seaboard at one time or another. You just can't prepare for every storm out there like "this is the big one". And I can say first hand living in FL for 15 years, the day to day anxiety levels were crazy there for about 6 weeks. I mean really nerve wracking!
Well put! Last hurricane season was certainly one for the record books and to say anyone brought any damage or loss on themselves just isn't fair. How many named storms were there last year? And without looking, I'll bet more than half of them were targeting the S.E. seaboard at one time or another. You just can't prepare for every storm out there like "this is the big one". And I can say first hand living in FL for 15 years, the day to day anxiety levels were crazy there for about 6 weeks. I mean really nerve wracking!
My Last Post on this Thread
Insurance cost are what ever your insurance company charges you. If you don't like the cost then shop for other carriers. I do not defend the insurance companies. Believe me I know about high insurance cost. However, I do take exception to someone that says their increase in cost was due to a bunch of blokes down in Florida that didn't try to protect their property. I know the effort that was put forth by 95% of the people, how neighborhoods pitched in to help each other, how groups worked together to prepare boats, and property, not hours, but days in advance. All I am saying is that, I saw the vast majority of people living down here do all they could to protect family and property, including our boats from harm. To suggest other wise is inappropriate and uninformed. Did may boat get damaged? No. Did anyone in my area have any boat damage? No. Did we all prepare our boats? Yes. Did we get hit here by the eye of the storm? No. The eye was 80 miles north. Were boats in that area damaged? Yes. Believe me, we have many discussions, and drills down here about preparation. Last year we had many opportunities to carry out whatever plan we had. End of story.
Insurance cost are what ever your insurance company charges you. If you don't like the cost then shop for other carriers. I do not defend the insurance companies. Believe me I know about high insurance cost. However, I do take exception to someone that says their increase in cost was due to a bunch of blokes down in Florida that didn't try to protect their property. I know the effort that was put forth by 95% of the people, how neighborhoods pitched in to help each other, how groups worked together to prepare boats, and property, not hours, but days in advance. All I am saying is that, I saw the vast majority of people living down here do all they could to protect family and property, including our boats from harm. To suggest other wise is inappropriate and uninformed. Did may boat get damaged? No. Did anyone in my area have any boat damage? No. Did we all prepare our boats? Yes. Did we get hit here by the eye of the storm? No. The eye was 80 miles north. Were boats in that area damaged? Yes. Believe me, we have many discussions, and drills down here about preparation. Last year we had many opportunities to carry out whatever plan we had. End of story.
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